Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation

[Kraco]

Btw. the whole setup of how the 3 bullies humiliated him is bs. First of all, why did Rudy even go with them to some empty basketball hall? He could just have said "not coming with you" and if they started dragging him, yelled for teachers' help. I know it's anime clichee, but that doesn't make it any less bs. And then the bullies' extreme actions. Undressing Rudy and tying him to a spot where everybody would see him. What kinda deep end-psychopaths are these 3 guys?! That's comically evil and, again, bs. Bullies don't do this because they know they wouldn't go undamaged after such action. Ofc, we are to believed that in Japanese schools this is totally normal and possible and the victim is powerless. Like, I was bullied for many years, too, and nobody ever helped me. But even then I'm convinced that had they undressed and tied me to a spot like that, somebody would have punished them hard. I don't know. It would have been better if the humiliation was done more sensible, more believably.

Of course in manga/anime it would be exaggerated. Just like in school gang series the schools are utterly lawless and full of destructive fighting. If you make it look more realistic, it doesn't necessarily feel so bad with a few glimpses, unless you have personally experienced it, which most of us probably haven't. In fact if I hadn't read so much manga, I couldn't even imagine so many varied ways of (realistic) bullying.

We just saw three events, but I'd imagine they were just the beginning, the escalation, and the climax. But maybe that was all, who knows. Then your question would indeed be relevant. If that wasn't all of it, then it would make more sense how he ended up with those bullies in an isolated place and perhaps how it got so bad.

[MFauli]

oh btw wtf. this was the last episode?! is it known when it continues? :/

[Buffalobiian]

It could easily just be "Zenith is alive because my eye can't see dead people".

From the flashback, it actually looked like Rudy was decently tall, though it could just be perspective given the short girl standing in front of him.

[Ryllharu]

What kinda deep end-psychopaths are these 3 guys?! That's comically evil and, again, bs. Bullies don't do this because they know they wouldn't go undamaged after such action. Ofc, we are to believed that in Japanese schools this is totally normal and possible and the victim is powerless. Like, I was bullied for many years, too, and nobody ever helped me. But even then I'm convinced that had they undressed and tied me to a spot like that, somebody would have punished them hard. I don't know. It would have been better if the humiliation was done more sensible, more believably.

Not really exaggerated here, and it is based on historical fact.

He was a 34 year old NEET when the series starts (presume 2012 when the novels started). Work backward and he was in high school in the 1990s.

Bullying in Japan in the 1980s and 1990s made international news, and was the topic of a lot of sociology, education, and criminal justice studies. It was first noticed in the mid-80s, but then suffered from a severe spike right around when he would have been in high school.

At the time, it was a significant social crisis. It was considered that the suicides were spurred on by "normal" students bullying the victim (as opposed to like...delinquents), so it was pervasive. Ignored or encouraged by the teachers.

[Kraco]

Right. It's hard to keep in mind that not only is the source novel so old, but the MC dude had isolated himself for such a long time before dying. As far as I know, bullying still plays a role in student suicides in Japan, but it was much worse before, probably because there wasn't Internet available to make things public, plus less international attention. The old, hard-line generations have also retired or died. Nowadays Japanese schools can't even demand students with a foreign background to dye their hair, without making headlines.

[David75]

I can understand the basket scene, easy to be traped or forced to go there.
But you need time and strenght to strip an overweight teenager and hang him on that fence where everyone can see the while process... That I feel is unlikely.

[Kraco]

But you need time and strenght to strip an overweight teenager and hang him on that fence where everyone can see the while process... That I feel is unlikely.

Yeah, unless it was the culmination of a long process, with the dude being broken to the point of offering no resistance, which would also explain how he became a recluse. If we only saw a single day, I don't think the psychological effect would be that big, seeing how in the beginning he had the guts to tell the douchebags not to cut in line, so he still had to have self-respect and courage. The fence scene had a monochrome background, I have forgotten if it was shown in more detail earlier in the series, so maybe it happened so late in the evening that the bullies could do it in peace.

[MFauli]

Not really exaggerated here, and it is based on historical fact.

He was a 34 year old NEET when the series starts (presume 2012 when the novels started). Work backward and he was in high school in the 1990s.

Bullying in Japan in the 1980s and 1990s made international news, and was the topic of a lot of sociology, education, and criminal justice studies. It was first noticed in the mid-80s, but then suffered from a severe spike right around when he would have been in high school.

At the time, it was a significant social crisis. It was considered that the suicides were spurred on by "normal" students bullying the victim (as opposed to like...delinquents), so it was pervasive. Ignored or encouraged by the teachers.

That doesn't mention any extreme bullying like this.

[Ryllharu]

That's because this wasn't extreme for Japan.

[DarthEnderX]

If the demon queen couldn't see Zenith, how does she really know she's alive?

If her power doesn't work on the dead, then even knowing her general area at least confirms she's alive.

if they started dragging him, yelled for teachers' help.

I've been given the impression through anime that Japanese teachers pretend to not notice bullying.

[MFauli]

That's because this wasn't extreme for Japan.

Ok, Mr Expert

[KrayZ33]

I've been given the impression through anime that Japanese teachers pretend to not notice bullying.

Depending on the type of teacher I could say the same thing about some teachers in Germany...
Hell... some teachers were actually bullied. Some of them just don't have any control over these kids for some reason.
I had a latin teacher that no one would listen to and classes were pure chaos and screaming and she wouldn't do a thing.
Same thing with one of my religion teacher back then. And I went to a "good" school, lol.
I mean, there were days when they would just turn to the blackboard, write something down and talk to themselves (since no one could hear them even if you tried due to all the noise and screaming).

I have no idea how grown men and women can "fear" 12-16yo kids like that... if it's like that in Germany, I can only imagine how it is in a country like Japan where you lose "face" if you don't have things under control and you "struggle" educating your pupils So it's probably better to just pretend everything is fine and to pretend "bullying doesn't happen under my watch".

Ok, Mr Expert

Use google:

‘The certificate: This suicide was caused by ijime’

I certify that I’m going to commit suicide because of ijime, on Saturday 11 November. Please show this letter to the bullies, teachers, the principal, bullies’ parents, and my parents. Also, please show all the letters to the media.

To the Minister of Education and Science Ibuki Bunmei

The reason I write this letter is that I find it too hard to live on. Bullies have never been punished. I told teachers about ijime, but they’ve done nothing. I told my parents about it but I was only told to ‘put up with it’. They contacted the principal and the board of education, but nothing changed. My parents and teachers only say ‘your personality is the problem’, so ‘put up with it’. If the situation does not improve before Wednesday 8 November, I’ll take my own life as I wrote in ‘The certificate: This suicide was caused by ijime’. I’ll do it at school. I can trust no one, so I write to you Minister Ibuki Bunmei…. Please release my name to the media on Saturday 11 November. Please. Please.

To all classmates:

Why do you bully me?... I am going to kill myself because of your bullying…. I saw on the TV that bullies went with teachers, the principal and board of education to destroy evidence, tell lies and say that there was no ijime. No bullies take responsibility. It’s the fault of adults. You may think that you’ll be protected by adults, but you’re wrong. I wrote letters to many people so that you must all kill yourselves to take responsibility….

To the class teacher:

Why don’t you help me? I told you about ijime many times and so did my parents. You told me to ‘hang on’ and ‘it is your fault’… If you don’t caution the bullies by Wednesday 8 November, I’ll commit suicide at school on Saturday 11 November. You’re no different from bullies. I’ll hold a grudge against you forever and will never forgive you. When I die, you’ll tell lies on TV. You’ll definitely say that ‘there was no ijime’ or ‘there is no causal relationship between ijime and suicide’…. I can’t trust you. So I’ve decided to write to the Minister. Other teachers are the same. I can’t trust teachers. They pretend that they haven’t seen ijime. You saw me being bullied, didn’t you? But you did nothing. Why? I don’t understand.

To my parents:

When you read this, I will be gone. I’m sorry. I couldn’t stand it any more. Bullies, teachers, the principal, board of education – they’re all the same. I saw on TV that there were others who want to commit suicide, and I found that I don’t have to put up with this any more. I’m going to die because of the bullies, teachers, the principal, and the board of education…. They’ll all try to avoid responsibility as I saw on TV. I can see that and I hate them.

Japanese culture is absolute trash-tier in that regard. Working there sucks for a fact (at least as a white collar) and so does going to school it seems. Socially speaking, it's basically a third world country. It's probably not by chance that all the weird shit happens over there and not in Australia or Belgium or whatever.
Like.. nearly 1% of adults living as "hikikomori". 1998 the goverment said only 50.000 are affected by this, now in 2019 they admit it's over a million.
This tells you a lot about Japan 20-40 years ago.... and it's not "wow, the japanese people were tougher 20 years ago" btw

[Ryllharu]

Ok, Mr Expert

It's called research, fool.

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ768971.pdf
Ijime (the sadistic, psychological battering that Japan specializes in now), goes back all the way to the 1600s in their own records.

I said before there was loads of research on this topic because they're so severe with it, so insidious with it in the modern era, and it constantly evolves.

Westerners can't comprehend the level this mental fuckery goes to. The basics level is elementary school shit with flowers on the desk, suggesting that the classmate should kill themselves. It goes upward from there, including making victims practice the steps to committing suicide daily.

The violent stuff is literal child's-play.

And I should remind you, mental health programs in Japan are quite poor compared to most G8 nations, because it is shameful and can be seen as losing face, like KrayZ33 mentioned. Getting better, but it certainly isn't good.

[Kraco]

Someone should arrange guns to those bullying victims so that they can do some school shooting like here in the West. It's pretty clear nobody in Japan cares of the victim kills themselves. But if he (I'm not sure if there have ever been female school shooters) takes half a dozen people with him, you can bet folks would start caring.

[MFauli]

You don't have to bring up those bullying cases. They're terrible, but what I criticized about your posts was that nothing in there comes close to Rudy's case. The verbal abuse? The permanent ostracizing? Yeah, I know that from my own school past. What I've never heard of is stripping a student naked and pinning him in a spot to humiliate him. That's why I said the anime overdid it there. If something like that happens more than just once irl, then I'll take back my criticism.

That Japan has a problem with bullying is not news. Although while it might be somewhat worse, bullying is a huge problem anywhere in the world, even if the media doesn't make it the big news it deserves.

[Ryllharu]

Oh, yeah, I guess the unrealistic part is that boys did it to another boy.

Every other year the story pops up about girl bullies doing it to some other girl. China, Singapore, Japan, Korea. Keep going. I'm not going to post the links even though they're mainstream tabloid papers from the UK and US.

[David75]

Ok, they can do it after everyone left school grounds if there's no security at night. They might not bother waking up early to do it before anyone arrives.
Then there's the fact Rudy had to accept being tied nude to that fence and let them proceed. Maybe under threat.

[KrayZ33]

You don't have to bring up those bullying cases. They're terrible, but what I criticized about your posts was that nothing in there comes close to Rudy's case. The verbal abuse? The permanent ostracizing? Yeah, I know that from my own school past. What I've never heard of is stripping a student naked and pinning him in a spot to humiliate him. That's why I said the anime overdid it there. If something like that happens more than just once irl, then I'll take back my criticism.

That Japan has a problem with bullying is not news. Although while it might be somewhat worse, bullying is a huge problem anywhere in the world, even if the media doesn't make it the big news it deserves.

again... just google that shit.

I'm not going to do more because google can't differentiate between me helping you using google, and someone looking for childporn.

In any case, this is not even necessarily a case of "bullying" but rather an act of violence, as bullying usually includes a certain timespan and a frequency of these events.
There are stories all over the internet.

I'm not clicking on the links but I guess I could post it here anyway.

This is an article written by a Korean man who served in a prison for teens.

소년원 공익으로 복무했던 썰.ssul

According to the article, some students from high school were accused of having an orgy with 2 mentally handicapped girls. The victims were beaten, burned with hot water and raped daily for a month until the discovery. A teen stole a bus and hit an elderly man in his 70’s, and proceeded to run him over with the heavy vehicle until the man’s dead body was squashed flat. Another high school student attacked the ‘class loser’ with a crow bar and caused permanent damage to his legs, after the ‘loser’ reported his long suffering to the teacher.

[MFauli]

*im not googling because child porn"
*google yourself*

saitamaOK.gif

I never claimed that something like that never happened in the history of mankind. What I doubt is that what happened to Rudy is happening frequently enough to be considered "not a big deal" as it is depicted in the anime. Again, the simple act of how he ended up with the bullies in the basketball court - how? If he went there with them, he's an idiot.

It's anime bs, that's my point.

[KrayZ33]

*im not googling because child porn"
*google yourself*

saitamaOK.gif

I never claimed that something like that never happened in the history of mankind. What I doubt is that what happened to Rudy is happening frequently enough to be considered "not a big deal" as it is depicted in the anime. Again, the simple act of how he ended up with the bullies in the basketball court - how? If he went there with them, he's an idiot.

It's anime bs, that's my point.

In case you didn't notice: He has spoken up against them and wanted to stand up for himself and others, as this is how he acts as Rudy as well btw.
What makes you think he didn't try to do the same thing when they told him to meet up in the gym.

Aside from a hundred other possible ways to get him to the gym (simply by threatening him) I don't see what he was supposed to do.
Way to blame the victim here. How would you feel if I said you were an idiot for being bullied "just tell them to not do it, lawl"? I find it very curious that someone who suffered from it himself is saying something like that. You would most likely be suprised how "little" you have actually suffered *compared* to those that get beaten into a *bloody* mess. That get several thousands of $ taken away from them, that get *raped* and sexually harassed. As I mentioned earlier, these cases are more often than not extremely violent. They would most likely not even be considered "bullying" but actually rape and slavery here.

And who said it's not a big deal. We are saying it's happening frequently and has happened frequently and the internet is all over news articles mentioning cases all over the world, yet you deny it or want very specific statistics for some reason - especially if the goverment tried to hide it in the past and these statistics and mentions are obviously mostly written in moon-runes?
We obviously don't have japanese news papers that are written in Kanji. If you can read Kanji you can browse those sites yourself I'd reckon and find these cases quickly? If these cases even make it public in the first place because a big part of the problem in Japan is that it is kinda "endorsed" by those around them and the victim is considered the problem.


If something happens in Germany that is news worthy but not necessarily international news worthy... like.. bullying (go figure), it's written in German as well and you won't necessarily find the same case in an english newspaper.
We don't report on every American School shooting here either.

But anyway:
https://factsanddetails.com/japan/ca.../item2790.html
I can't vow for anything in that article/research but it's probably more research than what you would want to invest.