Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation

[Ryllharu]

I need to further up my Japanese learning speed so I can join translations. Ryll, since you're a Japanese expert, any advice for someone who's past the beginning stages of Japanese learning? While I knew a lot before, I'm currently in the middle of the Wanikani-app, level 23 now, but I feel I should do some actual text reading. Got any recommendations in terms of "easy enough" manga or light novels? Thx

I don't know Japanese at all, aside from absorption that lets me skim through reading subtitles much faster because I recognize pattern phrases. My Korean is about the same from watching a lot of movies and dramas: effectively useless. I don't know either of their written languages even on a basic level.

When I said "I've learned from scanlation-drama comments..." I mean the rants that the translators go on to prove they're correct when some asshole was bitching about the translations being "too literal" or "not literal enough" and they go into full details of their transcription processes.

[Munsu]

Will the re-released version be free for download for those that have it? That's a really shitty move if not.
I was thinking about buying the E-books on amazon before this.

From what I read it'll be free for ebooks (don't know the procedure), but I doubt it'll be the same for physical versions. If you haven't bought it and still want it, just wait for the new releases.


Please note: This book is being re-edited in March 2021. Here’s how to get the new edition, once it’s available:

EBOOK: In the near future, on all digital platforms, existing customers can download the new edition for free. (You may need to delete the old file from your device before downloading the new edition.) All new customers after that point will automatically get the new ebook edition.

PAPERBACK: The new edition of the paperback will be shipping from the printer in early May 2021 (available at retailers shortly after that), and will have “Revised Edition: March 2021” listed on the copyright page. If you purchased a copy from an earlier printing and want the new edition instead, please discuss a return or exchange with the retailer you purchased it from, as they will have access to the new edition reprint in May/June (approximately) and will have their own policies regarding returns.

https://sevenseasentertainment.com/b...t-novel-vol-1/

[MFauli]

I don't know Japanese at all, aside from absorption that lets me skim through reading subtitles much faster because I recognize pattern phrases. My Korean is about the same from watching a lot of movies and dramas: effectively useless. I don't know either of their written languages even on a basic level.

When I said "I've learned from scanlation-drama comments..." I mean the rants that the translators go on to prove they're correct when some asshole was bitching about the translations being "too literal" or "not literal enough" and they go into full details of their transcription processes.

Hm, am I mixing you up with Shinta then? Someone here was a Japanese-expert. :>

[DarthEnderX]

Wow, this shit really is getting out of hand. And then you have woke people rationalize this shit by saying "well, it's being made appropriate for western audiences".

"getting" out of hand? Companies have literally never NOT done this.

Like, have you people never SEEN the 4Kids One Piece dub?

The hypocrisy then is that nobody in the west cares when young children play Call of Duty or GTA5, both games with a mature-rating.

Are you fucking stupid? We had huge controversies over here for years about GTA.

You seem determined to convince yourself that we're on some kind of slippery slope. But we've been at the bottom of that slope for ages now. If anything, we've been climbing our way back UP that slope, because shit's less censored now than it's ever been.

[MFauli]

"getting" out of hand? Companies have literally never NOT done this.

Like, have you people never SEEN the 4Kids One Piece dub?

No, because I'm from Germany.

Are you fucking stupid? We had huge controversies over here for years about GTA.

You seem determined to convince yourself that we're on some kind of slippery slope. But we've been at the bottom of that slope for ages now. If anything, we've been climbing our way back UP that slope, because shit's less censored now than it's ever been.

What huge controversies have there been in the past 10 years regarding violent games? The last time I saw debate about "killer games" took place 20+ years ago. And did GTA ever get banned? Not in Germany at least. Meanwhile games and anime with sexual content actuall do get banned.

[Ryllharu]

Yes, in a more polite manner, the anime/manga situation has IMPROVED recently, while the Japanese game localizations have worsened.

SevenSeas, formally known as one of the "good ones," (in comparison to VIZ, ADV, Dark Horse, and Del Rey for decades), getting caught and owning up to it is also an improvement. They're fixing it. That's progress. My understanding is France actually has one of the more accurate translations of manga, which is huge over there compared to here.

Kodansha and Shueisha now directly publish manga here or online, simultaneously, and people compare them in their officially comments sections from time to time, and they improve them as they go.

I'm not going to go off-topic on violent video games, take that shit elsewhere.

edit: I forgot Tokyopop, they were notably...flexible in their translations.

[MFauli]

Yes, in a more polite manner, the anime/manga situation has IMPROVED recently, while the Japanese game localizations have worsened.

SevenSeas, formally known as one of the "good ones," (in comparison to VIZ, ADV, Dark Horse, and Del Rey for decades), getting caught and owning up to it is also an improvement. They're fixing it. That's progress. My understanding is France actually has one of the more accurate translations of manga, which is huge over there compared to here.

Kodansha and Shueisha now directly publish manga here or online, simultaneously, and people compare them in their officially comments sections from time to time, and they improve them as they go.

I'm not going to go off-topic on violent video games, take that shit elsewhere.

edit: I forgot Tokyopop, they were notably...flexible in their translations.

Do you have a link to the story about SevenSeas getting caught? Sounds interesting.

[Munsu]

Do you have a link to the story about SevenSeas getting caught? Sounds interesting.

Contains links to spoilers, so careful:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...hanges/.169582

[Ryllharu]

It's interesting that the two translators responded that way, because that's how the good scanlator groups work. Translator, editor, and typesetter go back and forth repeatedly.

Kinda strange that the LN editors and typesetters just ignore the translator after they do their work, as freelancers no less.

[MFauli]

What I found interesting, too, is that wrong translation of the LN is closer to the correct anime translation. We talked about exactly that part. In the anime, it never uses the word for "forced", yet as we found in the LN, it uses that word. Now the official English translation of the LN ignored the "forced", which was wrong, thus coincidentially (?) being similar to the anime.

Makes me wonder if the translator responsible for the LN worked together with the anime.

[Munsu]

What I found interesting, too, is that wrong translation of the LN is closer to the correct anime translation. We talked about exactly that part. In the anime, it never uses the word for "forced", yet as we found in the LN, it uses that word. Now the official English translation of the LN ignored the "forced", which was wrong, thus coincidentially (?) being similar to the anime.

Makes me wonder if the translator responsible for the LN worked together with the anime.

The anime said he "assaulted" her, not sure what else you want from them...

You heard what they said in Japanese, and agreed that it could have multiple meanings regardless, not sure what your point with this is.

One thing is complete censorship, another is deciding how to translate something that can have multiple meanings.

I think you're not recalling the anime scene correctly.

Also, we didn't get Lilia's POV in the anime, only Rudeus'.

[MFauli]

The anime said he "assaulted" her, not sure what else you want from them...

You heard what they said in Japanese, and agreed that it could have multiple meanings regardless, not sure what your point with this is.

One thing is complete censorship, another is deciding how to translate something that can have multiple meanings.

I think you're not recalling the anime scene correctly.

Also, we didn't get Lilia's POV in the anime, only Rudeus'.

wtf Munsu :/

We went though all of this at length. As I said: The anime doesnt use the term "forced". What it uses it somewhat ambiguous. The LN, as we know, uses explicitely "forced" to describe what happens. And now we found out the English translation of the LN ignored that and is, instead, like the anime, downplaying what happened. This, as I said, raises the question if the different anime script might be connected to the false translation of the LN.

Ofc, changes are often made in anime adaptations without it being wrong, see Shield Hero. But it is a curious coincicdence at least.

[Munsu]

wtf Munsu :/

We went though all of this at length. As I said: The anime doesnt use the term "forced". What it uses it somewhat ambiguous. The LN, as we know, uses explicitely "forced" to describe what happens. And now we found out the English translation of the LN ignored that and is, instead, like the anime, downplaying what happened. This, as I said, raises the question if the different anime script might be connected to the false translation of the LN.

Ofc, changes are often made in anime adaptations without it being wrong, see Shield Hero. But it is a curious coincicdence at least.

Again, when the article mentions "forced" it's in a POV that wasn't featured in the anime. You can't do a 1 to 1 comparison.

The portion that appears in the anime in Rudeus' POV "nekomi wo osou" is the same as it appears in the WN.

[MFauli]

Again, when the article mentions "forced" it's in a POV that wasn't featured in the anime. You can't do a 1 to 1 comparison.

The portion that appears in the anime in Rudeus' POV "nekomi wo osou" is the same as it appears in the WN.

That's not the phrase that I'm talking about when I say "forced", though. But I'm too lazy to look for it, it's somewhere in a posting of mine here. "Nekomi o osou" is ambiguous. "Forced" is not. And now that situation. Pls, I don't want to repeat the whole debate in this thread, let's just wait what happens :>

[Munsu]

That's not the phrase that I'm talking about when I say "forced", though. But I'm too lazy to look for it, it's somewhere in a posting of mine here. "Nekomi o osou" is ambiguous. "Forced" is not. And now that situation. Pls, I don't want to repeat the whole debate in this thread, let's just wait what happens :>

That's a cop-out. In the article when "forced" is mentioned it's in a scene that doesn't appear the anime PERIOD. In this thread, the only time when "forced" was mentioned was when "Nekomi o osou" was discussed. The very least you could do is tell us what anime scene you're specifically talking about.

[DarthEnderX]

We went though all of this at length.

We did, and it was determined "scattering virtue" was an idiom to imply force, but you refused to accept that because it didn't literally say "forced".

And now you're arguing again because you're hoping the translation error means you weren't wrong, even though we weren't using that translation.

[Buffalobiian]

I won't butt in this whole debate, but I would like to clarify that the phrase "nekomi wo osou" fits the definition of rape in western societies. The literal meaning is to attack someone while they are asleep, but the whole Japanese phrase is generally understood as sexually assaulting a sleeping person.

To be fair, that exact phrase is sometimes used for comedic effect in a lot of ecchi anime, but the whole paragraph in this episode clearly does not imply that. Right after that phrase, "純潔を散らし" (junketsu wo chirashi) was used, which roughly means taking someone's virginity in a forceful/dishonorable way. The phrase literally translates to "scattering purity", so it does not imply a calm nor romantic encounter. But most of all, it definitely wasn't socially acceptable in their world because the statement after that said Paul fled his dojo due to what he did. The structure of the paragraph very clearly indicates that his actions forced him to escape.

Shinta's already said everything here. It's post #141 if you care to revisit.

MFauli disagrees with 襲う to refer to sexual assault. It means surprise attack. If you surprise attack someone in their sleep and scatter their virginity, that's sexual assault - even if the anime didn't use the specific phrase 無理矢理.

[Munsu]

Shinta's already said everything here. It's post #141 if you care to revisit.

MFauli disagrees with 襲う to refer to sexual assault. It means surprise attack. If you surprise attack someone in their sleep and scatter their virginity, that's sexual assault - even if the anime didn't use the specific phrase 無理矢理.

From what I can tell, since he doesn't want to tell us what scene he's talking about, is that MFauli is under the misconception that the anime itself censored the content when that scene is pretty much (in Japanese) word for word what's found in the WN, yet for some strange reason he thinks the (edited English LN version) is closer to the "true" version. The problem is that the true version (Japanese WN/LN) IS in the anime. That the anime uses "assault" to describe the scene, plus the evidence of the LN admitting they did a mistake on how they translated that portion, already disproves MFauli's current stance that the anime is more closely resembling the censored LN (at least in this case), which couldn't be further from the truth.

He keeps referencing the "forced" word, which is mentioned in the article, but that translation is specific to another scene that wasn't animated, but other than confirming what we already know, it doesn't bring nothing new... I think this is the crux of his confusion. The article is describing different scenes from the ones discussed in this thread.

I have no problem with MFauli considering the possibility that the Japanese phrases had multiple possibilities, heck I thought the same, particularly since I saw different takes in the English LN (which were supported by multiple scenes). But now we know we were fooled, and I think by now it's quite clear what is meant by those phrases even if we were open to the idea of mistranslation back then in the anime.

[MFauli]

But now we know we were fooled, and I think by now it's quite clear what is meant by those phrases even if we were open to the idea of mistranslation back then in the anime.

... that's what I was saying :/
Munsu, I'm not saying Paul didn't rape Lilia at this point.

[Kraco]

Lilia must be one of the weirdest characters in the story. She didn't initially like Rudeus because she viewed him as creepy, being kind of sexually inclined from the birth, yet Lilia herself is a person who got raped, then followed the rapist, later to become the rapist and his wife's maid, fully on purpose, and finally seduced him to give birth to his child. But I guess it's like they say: It takes a weirdo to recognise a weirdo.