Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation

[Ryllharu]

You misunderstood my posting then, Munsu: I do quite enjoy this anime. I can ignore the trash just like I ignored it in other trash isekai anime. I was responding to the video posted about where the guy in the video says things that aren't consistent with each other. Redo of Healer got nothing to do with anything, although I will add that Redo of Healer is NOT as bad as Mushoku when it comes to questionable stuff. Redo straight forward is a revenge story and features sex/rape. That's it. Mushoku features the same, except also lots of pedophilia, like, lots. And not the American brand of pedophilie where finding a 15 yo curvy girl makes you a pedo, no, actual pedophilia aka attraction to prepubescent children. So in that regard, that people like Gigguk glance over Mushoku's shit but condemn Redo? That's indeed unfair.

I think you kind of missed the point that the video made. In your defense, it is almost a throwaway line as the guy continues on defending the series from the ANN-style complaints leveled at it in isolation.

The video made the key point that Mushoku Tensei examines perviness as a setting. Not as fanservice. Something a lot of series do a really shitty job at. All the isekai series for example. Fanservice happens, but it either has no consequences at all, no impact to the setting, and portrays it to modern standards (or at least Shōwa or early Heisei Era, where train groping gets someone slapped, maybe, forced to flee, not caught and jailed like the current Reiwa era).

Think of it as its opposite. If a modern day pervert got sent back to Puritan era Colonial America and they acted out, they be hanged as a witch. Done, the end. Most ecchi series just brush things off despite the setting. Goody Hawthorne's skirts blew up, and she blushed before telling the protagonist she's embarrassed. Shit moves on. That's fanservice. That's Isekai Slime. That's Re:Zero. That's No Game No Life.

It's another world through a Heisei Era lens. Not actually another world.

Mushoku Tensei's ecchiness has more in common with Berserk than it does Konosuba. Rape happens. Women are casually disrespected, kemonomimi servants are treated like sex toys, their appearances used for family gags, it recognizes that women get urges and aren't pure.

But all that aside: I do enjoy Mushoku. All scenes that don't involve Rudy's contextless perv scenes are great. These perv scenes are so context-less that I'm sure someone will do a fan-edit once the whole series is out and remove all those scenes and suddenly we'll have a proper, great fantasy story (and no, im not pro-censorship, im just saying how easy it is to turn this into non-trash). I'd start repeating myself if Icontinued now, so let me just say this again: If all the perv scenes had true consequences attached to them, I'd love this anime so much more. As is, it's high-quality trash isekai.

There are consequences, tableaus, etc. You are specifically ignoring them. That's what the others are getting at.

- Rudy was a pervert in his old life. He treated women as objects.
/ The way Paul treats women has begun to disgust him.
- If you look carefully, and it is shown in that video, what was he watching exactly during his parent's funeral when he brother or whoever came in to kick his ass? Hidden camera footage from a bathroom!
/ He feels bad about spying on Roxy. He feels bad about peeping/creeping on Eris, or she kicked his ass for it, and he reflected on it. Not ignored it and moved with the episode like this was Love Hina.
- He was into anime and all sorts of stuff like that, he was initially thrilled to see animal girls.
/ He cringed when Eris did the animal girl pose. He got uncomfortable when he witnessed the grandfather "using" one. We're given Ghislaine as the stark contrast to the other animal girls. Someone Eris' family treats with respect, and allows her to learn alongside their precious daughter, not just there as a guard and teacher.
- He ogles women. All the time. Back to objectification of his old life and early new childhood.
/ Lilia tells the story that she very much noticed, and she thought he was possessed. Increasing his awareness, and we've seen him dial it back significantly, looking aside more.

There's more, but I think that's all the effort I am willing to put into this.

[MFauli]

There are consequences, tableaus, etc. You are specifically ignoring them. That's what the others are getting at.

- Rudy was a pervert in his old life. He treated women as objects.
/ The way Paul treats women has begun to disgust him.
- If you look carefully, and it is shown in that video, what was he watching exactly during his parent's funeral when he brother or whoever came in to kick his ass? Hidden camera footage from a bathroom!
/ He feels bad about spying on Roxy. He feels bad about peeping/creeping on Eris, or she kicked his ass for it, and he reflected on it. Not ignored it and moved with the episode like this was Love Hina.
- He was into anime and all sorts of stuff like that, he was initially thrilled to see animal girls.
/ He cringed when Eris did the animal girl pose. He got uncomfortable when he witnessed the grandfather "using" one. We're given Ghislaine as the stark contrast to the other animal girls. Someone Eris' family treats with respect, and allows her to learn alongside their precious daughter, not just there as a guard and teacher.
- He ogles women. All the time. Back to objectification of his old life and early new childhood.
/ Lilia tells the story that she very much noticed, and she thought he was possessed. Increasing his awareness, and we've seen him dial it back significantly, looking aside more.

There's more, but I think that's all the effort I am willing to put into this.

Where are the consequences?! Is my english so bad that my definition of "consequences" is entirely different from yours? He feels disgusted by Paul's behavior ... so what? He goes on to do more and worse.

:/

[Ryllharu]

Where are the consequences?! Is my english so bad that my definition of "consequences" is entirely different from yours?

Your definition is narrow, yes. "Retribution," "Punishment," and "Consequence" are not direct synonyms.

That's the difference between Mushoku Tensei and Zero no Tsukaima.

[KrayZ33]

You misunderstood my posting then, Munsu: I do quite enjoy this anime. I can ignore the trash just like I ignored it in other trash isekai anime. I was responding to the video posted about where the guy in the video says things that aren't consistent with each other. Redo of Healer got nothing to do with anything, although I will add that Redo of Healer is NOT as bad as Mushoku when it comes to questionable stuff. Redo straight forward is a revenge story and features sex/rape. That's it. Mushoku features the same, except also lots of pedophilia, like, lots. And not the American brand of pedophilie where finding a 15 yo curvy girl makes you a pedo, no, actual pedophilia aka attraction to prepubescent children. So in that regard, that people like Gigguk glance over Mushoku's shit but condemn Redo? That's indeed unfair.

I already love how biased your opinion is when you say that Mushoku is featuring "lots" of pedophilia while simultaniously basically saying that Redo of Healer doesn't, even though not a single character in the main cast is actually an adult and one of the girls that is frequently being *fucked* on screen looks like she is as young as Eris.

This is why discussing this topic is really not worth *anyones* time.

I can already tell that the only thing that is required to not view this as "pedophilia" for some people (you are obviously included here) is a line saying

"all these characters are fictional and at least 18 years old".

It's also really, really sad that "consequences" can't lead to something positve in your world and always have to end with revenge, jail, death, punishment.
Not with character development, a change of mind or something like that. Which is quite obviously the case with Rudeus, as was very well pointed out by the guy in the video too

And I have no idea why this topic comes up every single time, Rudeus is actually suffering due to his pedophilia or just usual perviness, not even once did he get anything good or a benefit out of it.
Everytime it came up - and his perversion in general, he got punished. So it's not like this show is glorifying it. Which seems to be something you believe it does?

He feels disgusted by Paul's behavior ... so what? He goes on to do more and worse.

In your head canon maybe.
In the anime itself, he hasn't done *anything* he sure did try or thought about it however. Even when he wanted to he didn't, or couldn't.
And that *one time* where he wanted to and did go with his perviness, but couldn't and got punished by the same girl he wanted to make his "victum", he regrets it immediatly and sincerely afterwards... and we know it has been sincerely because we actually get to read/listen to his thoughts.
We are talking about roughly *1* scene here where he actually went through with it btw.
So why the heck do you make it sound like he is constantly pushing it to the level of a crime and not to the level it actually is most of the time - gag-comedy.

People forget that this shit can be funny and doesn't always have to be taken seriously. I don't need people to white-knight this stuff, but it's also not necessary to make it worse than what it is.
If people can't laught about it, then tough luck, they are rightfully disliking that kind of humor, but that's just that.
But even these scenes are actually building up to a development in this show and that's exactly where the difference is between this and most (and by most I mean 99%+) other shows.

When Eris showed up in Rudeus room, it wasn't just Eris making that decision. It was also telling us alot about the world he lives in, the nobility and politics.
And do people even realise that Rudeus was indeed slightly drunk there? And I'm not mentioning that as an excuse. I'm mentioning it because they gave a freaking 10yo kid wine to drink and not just a sip, but multiple cups.
Do people actually realise these small things? No one's even mentioned it. The usual anime-cliche is that the young kid gets grape-juice, no matter at what timeline or in what fantasy realm the kid is currently at.
Eris' father tried to make Rudeus drunk! Fully knowing that Rudeus is about to meet Eris in his bedroom, obviously because he himself set it up that way.
And he didn't do this to just amuse himself. He made it so because he knows what kind of consequences this could have and to what kind of position this could lead to.
They hinted at it frequently, well, it wasn't only hinted at, but actually spoken out too.

[Ryllharu]

When Eris showed up in Rudeus room, it wasn't just Eris making that decision. It was also telling us alot about the world he lives in, the nobility.
And do people even realise that Rudeus was indeed slightly drunk there? And I'm not mentioning that as an excuse. I'm mentioning it because they gave a freaking 10yo kid wine to drink and not just a sip, but multiple cups.
Do people actually realise these small things? No one's even mentioned it. The usual anime-cliche is that the young kid gets grape-juice, no matter at what timeline or in what fantasy realm the kid is currently at.
Eris' father tried to make Rudeus drunk! Fully knowing that Rudeus is about to meet Eris in his bedroom, obviously because he himself set it up that way.

As pointed out in the video:
- Eris' father asks Rudy if he'd like to have Eris sent to his room on his 10th birthday (noting that both of Eris' parents like him at this point and wouldn't mind him marrying into their side of the family)
- Rudy refuses.
- Eris was sent there anyway, dressed and with the expectation that they would engage in something, maybe 2nd base at most in her head.
- She consents.
- Then takes it back.
- Rudy gets punished for ignoring her taking it back.
- He reflects on that, vows not to make that mistake again internally.
- Eris partially forgives him minutes later (does she like him, did she realize it was still expected in terms of 'family duty' and came back voluntarily, was she sent back? We do not know.)

[MFauli]

I already love how biased your opinion is when you say that Mushoku is featuring "lots" of pedophilia while simultaniously basically saying that Redo of Healer doesn't, even though not a single character in the main cast is actually an adult and one of the girls that is frequently being *fucked* on screen looks like she is as young as Eris.

This is why discussing this topic is really not worth *anyones* time.

No, me replying to the rest of your posting is not worth the time, because:

1.) None of the girls in Redo look as young as Eris. Check your eyes.
2.) Pedophilia isn't "sex with non-adults", it's "sex (or attempts of) with prepubescent children". The latter only happens in Mushoku, not in Redo.

[KrayZ33]

No, me replying to the rest of your posting is not worth the time, because:

1.) None of the girls in Redo look as young as Eris. Check your eyes.
2.) Pedophilia isn't "sex with non-adults", it's "sex (or attempts of) with prepubescent children". The latter only happens in Mushoku, not in Redo.

Okay buddy
Maybe you should check your mental health instead.

Geez, why do I even bother.

[MFauli]

Okay buddy
Maybe you should check your mental health instead.

Geez, why do I even bother.

"I have no argument, so I just fling an insult"

Ok, Wow.

[DarthEnderX]

And that *one time* where he wanted to and did go with his perviness, but couldn't and got punished by the same girl he wanted to make his "victum", he regrets it immediatly and sincerely afterwards... and we know it has been sincerely because we actually get to read/listen to his thoughts.
We are talking about roughly *1* scene here where he actually went through with it btw.

Well, 2 scenes. The one we just had on his birthday, but I think you're forgetting the obvious one in the stables.



Of course, the ass beating for that one was legendary. But he also wasn't as regretful that time.

I can already tell that the only thing that is required to not view this as "pedophilia" for some people (you are obviously included here) is a line saying

"all these characters are fictional and at least 18 years old".

To be fair, while MFauli is supposedly anti-pedophilia, he's apparently A-OK with hebephilia and ephebophilia.

[KrayZ33]

"I have no argument, so I just fling an insult"

Ok, Wow.

How am I supposed to have an argument against your obviously wrong subjective opinion.
All I can say is:
Setsuna is portrayed as a child and looks even younger than Eris in most of these scenes, even her VA is made to sound especially childish and young.
I believe she is actually somewhere between 12-14 in the actual WN - like all the characters actually - not a single one is or was btw when that shit started to turn into rape/sex etc. yada yada. So Redo of Healer is factually a bunch of kids fucking each other day in and day out.

Eris is 12 too now.
I could post pictures but for what? For you? Nah, not worth!

"WoW" for not noticing.
I really don't want to bother with degenerate shit like you. No need to mince my words anymore.
Goodbye, thank you.

[Kraco]

Try to keep it civil, guys. You are talking about an anime, not the outcome of a sports match where cheating was suspected.

Personally I think it's quite interesting and funny that because Mushoku Tensei doesn't look cheap and crap with the kind of production values it has, and in some ways has above average character development, many people suddenly expect all kinds of things from it. Those expectations then make them outraged when failed. Redo Healer is like 1000% trashier than Mushoku, but since nobody sane expects anything from it, nobody bothers to seriously invest time in analysing it.

What comes to pedophilia and Mushoku, what exactly can you do about it? Everybody knows underage kids are interested in sex, but if you show that interest in any concrete way, the story is pedophilic because the audience includes adults? So, the only way to avoid that is to pretend teenagers have zero interest in sex or keep it all theoretical. The Japanese traditionally haven't tried to avoid the issue, however, which has brought us plenty of series with middle school kids being perverted and whatnot.

[MFauli]

How am I supposed to have an argument against your obviously wrong subjective opinion.
All I can say is:
Setsuna is portrayed as a child and looks even younger than Eris in most of these scenes, even her VA is made to sound especially childish and young.
I believe she is actually somewhere between 12-14 in the actual WN - like all the characters actually - not a single one is or was btw when that shit started to turn into rape/sex etc. yada yada. So Redo of Healer is factually a bunch of kids fucking each other day in and day out.

Eris is 12 too now.
I could post pictures but for what? For you? Nah, not worth!

"WoW" for not noticing.
I really don't want to bother with degenerate shit like you. No need to mince my words anymore.
Goodbye, thank you.

Dude, I watch both anime, too. Eris is almost flat, Setsuna has massive udders. Setsuna was a captured warrior who got bought from sex slave trader, Eris is a spoiled little girl.

When I see the sex scenes in Redo, it's fine hentai featuring busty girls, age doesn't matter even. When I see Eris, I see a little girl and that's all I see, because no sane person could look at her 12yo self and state "ah, yeah, she's hot".

You also entirely ignored my second point: Pedophilia relates to attraction towards prepubescent children, aka Eris and younger. Being attracted to hot teenage girl is perfectly normal and even legal in most countries in the world. Don't make me post the age of consent-chart that shows how in Europe it ranges all the way from 13 to 18 year olds. Personally, the issue comes not with age, but with appearance, and Eris LOOKS like a child, Setsuna doesn't.

[DarthEnderX]

Try to keep it civil, guys. You are talking about an anime, not the outcome of a sports match where cheating was suspected.

I enjoy the implication where that's a situation where it's okay to not be civil. As if sports matter any more than anime.

[KrayZ33]

Dude, I watch both anime, too. Eris is almost flat, Setsuna has massive udders. Setsuna was a captured warrior who got bought from sex slave trader, Eris is a spoiled little girl.

You also entirely ignored my second point: Pedophilia relates to attraction towards prepubescent children, aka Eris and younger. Being attracted to hot teenage girl is perfectly normal and even legal in most countries in the world. Don't make me post the age of consent-chart that shows how in Europe it ranges all the way from 13 to 18 year olds. Personally, the issue comes not with age, but with appearance, and Eris LOOKS like a child, Setsuna doesn't.

Uhum, okay okay, cool story bro.
Do you always pick one stance and then just ignore everything that doesn't fit and act it's different or not there?

[MFauli]

Uhum, okay okay, cool story bro.
Do you always pick one stance and then just ignore everything that doesn't fit and act it's different or not there?

?

I don't understand why you bolded these two parts of my posting.

[Munsu]

Looks like the English LN publisher is re-releasing volume 1 and 2 (not sure if more later) in April and May after the discrepancies came to light with the anime.

[KrayZ33]

Looks like the English LN publisher is re-releasing volume 1 and 2 (not sure if more later) in April and May after the discrepancies came to light with the anime.

Weird, really? Why?
That makes no sense. Or do you mean that they re-release it with different wording to better reflect a scene and the characters in that scene.

[Ryllharu]

Because they did some creative "editing" (i.e. their translators censored it), and now with the anime out proving it, they got caught.

From what I've learned from scanlation-drama comments, translation is always subjective, to a degree. But there have been a lot of cases recently, completely changing the meaning of a phrase.

Changing a Japanese idiom to an American/Anglophone idiom is one thing, usually fine. Warping a sentence to include a pop culture reference instead is right on the line. Injecting a completely different sentiment to casually toss in some personal politics is over the line.

This was wholesale ejecting paragraphs removed under the guise of "improved sentence flow."

Classroom of the Elite was another one affected.

[MFauli]

Because they did some creative "editing" (i.e. their translators censored it), and now with the anime out proving it, they got caught.

From what I've learned from scanlation-drama comments, translation is always subjective, to a degree. But there have been a lot of cases recently, completely changing the meaning of a phrase.

Changing a Japanese idiom to an American/Anglophone idiom is one thing, usually fine. Warping a sentence to include a pop culture reference instead is right on the line. Injecting a completely different sentiment to casually toss in some personal politics is over the line.

This was wholesale ejecting paragraphs removed under the guise of "improved sentence flow."

Classroom of the Elite was another one affected.

Wow, this shit really is getting out of hand. And then you have woke people rationalize this shit by saying "well, it's being made appropriate for western audiences". Like western people cannot comprehend a morally questionable story. What especially upsets me is that shit like this never happens in books proper or movies. It's only anime and video games where western instances of companies think they must "protect" their audience. Which only reveals the still deep-rooted misbelief that games/anime are "for children", whereas Japan has fully accepted these as valid media entertainment for adults, too. The hypocrisy then is that nobody in the west cares when young children play Call of Duty or GTA5, both games with a mature-rating.

Sigh

I need to further up my Japanese learning speed so I can join translations. Ryll, since you're a Japanese expert, any advice for someone who's past the beginning stages of Japanese learning? While I knew a lot before, I'm currently in the middle of the Wanikani-app, level 23 now, but I feel I should do some actual text reading. Got any recommendations in terms of "easy enough" manga or light novels? Thx

[KrayZ33]

Will the re-released version be free for download for those that have it? That's a really shitty move if not.
I was thinking about buying the E-books on amazon before this.