Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation

[MFauli]

Honestly, Munsu, I find how you describe the WN version even worse than the anime. In the anime, he's just a pervert. In the WN, as you describe, he's a pervert, too, BUT he excuses his own misbehavior ('clinical').

At the end of the day, either is too crass.

However, I disagree that it'd be better if it was cut. Censorship is always bad.

That said, as I mentioned before, I'd prefer if there was MEANING to these ecchi scenes. Even if he was a sex-criminal, that'd be ok, a story can happen from there. But just showing that shit, no context, only makes it fanservice. Fanservice for loli fans :/

[Munsu]

Honestly, Munsu, I find how you describe the WN version even worse than the anime. In the anime, he's just a pervert. In the WN, as you describe, he's a pervert, too, BUT he excuses his own misbehavior ('clinical').

He's not excusing it anymore than the anime is, that part is mentioned in the anime, when he's describing the boobs, he's just not salivating over it with that perv face on. That's what I meant. It's not about excusing, but on the level he's portrayed enjoying it... though he DOES enjoy it. But I may be missing Japanese nuances and tone.

Whatever it's a shitty scene.

[MFauli]

Whatever it's a shitty scene.

It really is, and I feel a lot of people don't understand how shitty this anime in its entirety is. Mushoku hides its true degeneracy beneath layers of seemingly good parts, but scenes such as the meaningless groping of a 12yo girl show its true colors. This is the same as Redo of Healer, just with more pretense. That's prolly also why there's a tangible lack of outrage against Redo, whereas I've enjoyed a lot of outrage against Mushoku yesterday and today. This anime tricked people, and now it's revealing itself.

The people being all "this is the godfather of isekai, it's a masterpiece", are real shitheads, lol.

[Ryllharu]

While I have a lot of issues with the...overtness of the perviness, I would not say this is remotely in the same range as most isekai. It's very clearly in the upper 5% of isekai, and does seem to deserve quite a bit of the reputation it has built up.

Is it the "godfather of isekai?" Fuck no. That belongs to Fushigi Yugi and Escaflowne, and pretty blatantly. I might give it credit for doing the power fantasy isekai well, or the life-redo generally pretty well. The shoujo and josei life-redo series are much better.

Is Isekai no Seikishi Monogatari better on the balance of the pervy angle? Yes.

But what Mushoku Tensei does right is character development and worldbuilding. It isn't that the male side of the Greyrat family of degenerates. It's that they all constantly have moments of introspection, reflection, and generally positive growth. It's that Rudy is discovering the wonders of this new world, trying to improve and succeed where he failed horribly before in his old life. He's taken up responsibilities and has real goals that he's acting on.

He doesn't squirrel his newfound knowledge and pro-casting abilities away. He taught Sylphie, tried to teach Roxy, deliberately did not teach Eris to cast silently, and is trying to be equally focused on giving Eris a well-rounded education. He sucked at swordplay, tried to give up in front of his father dozens of times, and now that Eris is beating the shit out of him consistently, he's stopped giving up. He stopped trying to cheat.

He went from a shut in, to a shy child, to finally seeking new friends and scenery. He got stuck on his little girlfriend before his parents found a way to make him keep that momentum going to explore and widen his horizons. He could have gone back. He has the power to do so. He could have abandoned Eris and given up on his goal of funding his education and Sylphie's. But he didn't. He's stuck with something.

That's all growth.

And that is what so many other dreadful isekai and life-redo series fail to ever achieve. They give the hero-protagonist all the power they could ever want, and nothing is ever hard for them ever. Or Everything's Hard at first, but they awaken a secret power they never knew.

Rudy has all the power he could ever need. He's probably on the fast track to OP. But his issues, his growth, are all personal.

Compare it to other series, especially the "good" ones:
Seikishi Monogatari - Kenshi is insanely overpowered, and has very little, if any, character growth. It's all the girls who do instead.
No Game No Life - Sora and Shiro don't really change. Their journey is more exploration focused.
Youjo Senki - Tanya stubbornly learns nothing through being brought to the new world, even as a newborn too.
Re: Zero - Subaru's personality seems to reset with ever arc too.
Zero no Tsukaima - Saito is still the pervy moron, but oh wow, he's slightly more responsible and courageous...sometimes.
Overlord - No character growth anywhere to be seen.
KonoSuba - I guess this one actually works because they generally don't change and are always terrible people, and that's kind of the point.
Shield Hero - Actually one of the exceptions, until later.
Fushigi Yugi - Honestly it is mostly Yui and not Maika who has character development.
Slime - Yeah, there's really not, at least so far.

[Munsu]

The question is, are they selling in real life the figurines that Rudeus is crafting?

[DarthEnderX]

Is it the "godfather of isekai?" Fuck no. That belongs to Fushigi Yugi and Escaflowne, and pretty blatantly..

I think when people call this the "godfather of isekai" they mean "godfather of isekia where you're basically in a JRPG".

If we're literally just talking "other world" stories we gotta go back to Oz or Narnia or some shit.

[Buffalobiian]

The question is, are they selling in real life the figurines that Rudeus is crafting?

Not yet.

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/search?ty...+Reincarnation

[KrayZ33]

The people being all "this is the godfather of isekai, it's a masterpiece", are real shitheads, lol.

I don't know why you are trying to hate on this show.
This show is clearly better than 99% of the rest in pretty much every area whatsoever.
The fact that there are shitty and sometimes unnecessary "pervert baka hentai" scenes doesn't really devalue it by much, considering that it's hardly the focus of this show and does not take up much screentime either.

The sad truth is that this is also generic anime humor. Just like phyiscal violence is used for comedic effect
So while it's fucking dumb it's still used as humor and as shown during the scene with Roxy we kinda get the drift that he wouldn't really truely do anything serious if the other person doesn't want it.
You can also talk about how MC is "40 years old in his head" - but even that doesn't really matter much when he also nearly cried because his parents thought he did wet his bed when he did some water magic.

The good truth is that "ecchi" scenes like the one with Paul and the Maid actually lead to something that is also seriously discussed in the story, that lead to further character development. Although I can hardly judge that as "ecchi" in the first place.

We can't really compare this to shit like "handy isekai" or "arifureta" (or whatever that was called). If you want to or do, I'd have to question your ability to judge something objectively.

It's also much better balanced overall (so far) than stuff like Slime-Isekai which shows that it's ahead of the mediocre-range too.
We don't even have to just reduce it to Isekai because the Isekai aspect of it all is rather small in the first place. It's a good fantasy world that feels alive right now.

[MFauli]

I don't know why you are trying to hate on this show.
This show is clearly better than 99% of the rest in pretty much every area whatsoever.
The fact that there are shitty and sometimes unnecessary "pervert baka hentai" scenes doesn't really devalue it by much, considering that it's hardly the focus of this show and does not take up much screentime either.

The sad truth is that this is also generic anime humor. Just like phyiscal violence is used for comedic effect

The good truth is that "ecchi" scenes like the one with Paul and the Maid actually lead to something that is also seriously discussed in the story, that lead to further character development. Although I can hardly judge that as "ecchi" in the first place.

We can't really compare this to shit like "handy isekai" or "arifureta" (or whatever that was called). If you want to or do, I'd have to question your ability to judge something objectively.

It's also much better balanced overall (so far) than stuff like Slime-Isekai which shows that it's ahead of the mediocre-range too.
We don't even have to just reduce it to Isekai because the Isekai aspect of it all is rather small in the first place. It's a good fantasy world that feels alive right now.

Is it, though? That's exactly what I'm questioning.

You say the ecchi scenes lead to something. Really? We've talked about the pointless groping of Eris. The merchant selling an aphrodisiac to a 7yo, explaining in detail what it does, had no consequences for the merchant. And what did Paul's cheating (and potential rape) lead to? An unrealistic harem of 2 wives that took his wive to make the humiliating choice of accepting the situation. When Rudy undressed Sylphie, not only was he dumb to not realize she was a girl: he had no business there undressing her, girl OR boy. And the only consequence happened because she was a girl. Imagine she'd been a boy: Rudy would probably feel zero remorse about forcibly undressing 'him' then. Then you still have the undisclosed rape of Klaus, who's victim works as his maid and is pregnant from him. And the latest of Paul'a: he 'defeated' the wolf warrior 'only in bed'. Leaving aside that this both sounds rapey again and puts to question his fidelity to Zenith again: why brag about it like that to your 7yo son? It's pure smut at that point.

That's why I think you and others let yourself trick by the non-ecchi parts. I don't see the fantastic 'development' you talk about. What I see is unrealistic progression based on ecchi actions. But it hides itself just enough to fly under most people's radar.

[KrayZ33]

You say the ecchi scenes lead to something. Really?

How about you read what I wrote?
It's really not fun discussing this if you fail at doing that.

I gave you a specific "ecchi" scene. I didn't oversimplify everything I didn't make a general statment that will cover "all scenes and every scene we haven't seen yet"

And what did Paul's cheating (and potential rape) lead to? An unrealistic harem of 2 wives that took his wive to make the humiliating choice of accepting the situation.

Unrealistic?
Jesus christ. And the fact that she made that humiliating choice is exactly what I'm talking about.
Do you think she took that lightly? Considering that like 5 whole minutes or so were dedicated to this and portrayed in a very gloomy atmosphere?
She was about to end everything just there.
Rudy was the reason she did not.
Her not wanting the maid AND her child to die was what made her choose this over the other.

Why do you ignore something so important just to forward a stupid agenda of some kind. I don't get it.
It's really below me.

Do you think there is a "correct way" to resolve this situation?
If so, how and why. This is something even modern day people can't solve without feelings involved.
Not every betrayal is met instantly with a break up.
Considering we are looking at a medieval setting here, even less likely during that time.

If you talk about Paul's past, do you honestly think his wife doesn't or didn't know how he ticks?
They went adventuring together. Obviously she was not the only girl in the party, obviously he also made out with the beast girl, as we all know by now.
Seems more like she somehow made the "bad boy" stay with her and hoped he would stop adultering when she can occupy him, but it seems like his libido is stronger.
Maybe that's also why she could make a decision like that - since she knew how Paul is. Obviously he is a beast and degenerate, but even these people have family. And again... all that talk I did just now comes from all these "ecchi" and ero talk we are hearing about. And it's not like Paul would throw any of his wives and girls into the gutter just like that. He traveled and lived together with them for a while. He has some standards too and is usually trying to be a good guy.
Even the maid thought that she isn't all that innocent, so once again, obviously there is something to Paul that attracts the other sex. He is good looking, well build, young and attractive and basically a noble after all. And also kind.

That scene was not something without any meaning.
You can also look at Roxy here who is like.... training the 7th prince of XYZ in magic. Very unlikely that these kids are all from 1 wife, you know?

edit: but this is already more than I was willing to write about this "issue".
I'm trying to enjoy anime and I will obviously put thing X about Y because I'm having preferences, But some things are just objectively better and more well done than others. And this is without question one of the better animes, not just better Isekais. I wouldn't really call any anime a masterpiece (or perfect in every way) because literally every anime has shit in it and sometimes that shit is actually needed to advance and tell a proper story. I don't know any masterpiece movies either, so I don't know what the general requirements are for something to call that.
If someone doesn't see a masterpiece as "perfect" but just as something very good, I guess this show is pretty close to it.

[Kraco]

That's why I think you and others let yourself trick by the non-ecchi parts. I don't see the fantastic 'development' you talk about. What I see is unrealistic progression based on ecchi actions. But it hides itself just enough to fly under most people's radar.

Aren't you mighty, to see what others can't see. It just makes me think you haven't read nearly enough isekai to think this isn't above the gray mass of trash that forms the bulk of it. The usual isekai series is an instantly OP dude with a harem flocking around him. That's it, the whole thing. Mushoku Tensei at least tries to write the characters well, with all of their numerous flaws, if there's a harem developing, it's taking a whole lot of time developing, plus the girls have their own lives and try chase those lives. Roxy is gone, Sylhie is gone. We are six episodes in, and there's no comically evil nobleman or utterly corrupt religious organisation modeled after the Christian church. The MC hasn't hurried to buy his first female slave.

I've said it before, but the ecchi scenes before were needed. I also said I felt like groping Eris wasn't needed anymore, but I guess the author felt otherwise. The MC is a broken person due to his previous life, so it makes sense he's not instantly healed into a perfect Buddha, especially since his old man in this life is a pervert as well.

I don't consider this series any masterpiece whatsoever, but it's quite a bit above the usual trash isekai (which I still read). It makes a real effort to try to be a bit different and develop stuff in a more or less believable manner. It's not so hard to impress me, though. Is this as good as some non-isekai fantasy like Helck? Hell, no, but this is quite decent.

Btw, the merchant tried to sell the drug to Rudeus because merchants sell stuff. That's their profession. He asked if Rudeus is from the Greyrat manor, which basically is the same as asking whether Rudeus is a pervert.

[MFauli]

How about you read what I wrote?
It's really not fun discussing this if you fail at doing that.

I gave you a specific "ecchi" scene. I didn't oversimplify everything I didn't make a general statment that will cover "all scenes and every scene we haven't seen yet"



Unrealistic?
Jesus christ. And the fact that she made that humiliating choice is exactly what I'm talking about.
Do you think she took that lightly? Considering that like 5 whole minutes or so were dedicated to this and portrayed in a very gloomy atmosphere?
She was about to end everything just there.
Rudy was the reason she did not.
Her not wanting the maid AND her child to die was what made her choose this over the other.

Why do you ignore something so important just to forward a stupid agenda of some kind. I don't get it.
It's really below me.

Do you think there is a "correct way" to resolve this situation?
If so, how and why. This is something even modern day people can't solve without feelings involved.
Not every betrayal is met instantly with a break up.
Considering we are looking at a medieval setting here, even less likely during that time.

If you talk about Paul's past, do you honestly think his wife doesn't or didn't know how he ticks?
They went adventuring together. Obviously she was not the only girl in the party, obviously he also made out with the beast girl, as we all know by now.
Seems more like she somehow made the "bad boy" stay with her and hoped he would stop adultering when she can occupy him, but it seems like his libido is stronger.
Maybe that's also why she could make a decision like that - since she knew how Paul is. Obviously he is a beast and degenerate, but even these people have family. And again... all that talk I did just now comes from all these "ecchi" and ero talk we are hearing about. And it's not like Paul would throw any of his wives and girls into the gutter just like that. He traveled and lived together with them for a while. He has some standards too and is usually trying to be a good guy.
Even the maid thought that she isn't all that innocent, so once again, obviously there is something to Paul that attracts the other sex. He is good looking, well build, young and attractive and basically a noble after all. And also kind.

That scene was not something without any meaning.
You can also look at Roxy here who is like.... training the 7th prince of XYZ in magic. Very unlikely that these kids are all from 1 wife, you know?

edit: but this is already more than I was willing to write about this "issue".
I'm trying to enjoy anime and I will obviously put thing X about Y because I'm having preferences, But some things are just objectively better and more well done than others. And this is without question one of the better animes, not just better Isekais. I wouldn't really call any anime a masterpiece (or perfect in every way) because literally every anime has shit in it and sometimes that shit is actually needed to advance and tell a proper story. I don't know any masterpiece movies either, so I don't know what the general requirements are for something to call that.
If someone doesn't see a masterpiece as "perfect" but just as something very good, I guess this show is pretty close to it.

You'll be upset, but: You're just making flimsy excuses for dumb ecchi shit.

Yes, Zenith was gloomy for one scene in which she DIDNT interact with her husband. Then timeskip and she's all smiley-smiley with her daughter and the daughter of her companion-wife. In all these scenes, not ONCE die she interact with Paul, her husband. THAT would have been meaningful and potential development. Because that's the part that matters. How did they go on to life together? Has she forgiven him? Do they share the same bed again? Is the maid now wife #2 or is she off-limits? Is Paul truly faithful now or is he not? (his proud comment about defeating wolf warrior in bed makes this doubtful). Basically everything that would have been meaningful development didn't happen. What we see is the aftermath of a generic hentai: Guy ends up with two hot girls. Kewl.

Then you have Roxy being groped by the rich kid and not react to it emotionally. That's on the same level as the merchant in last episode. All I can conclude from that is that this WHOLE world is full of ecchi, and that this behavior is normal there. But the only way to accept that is by acknowledging that this is a dumb ecchi-anime, because if you wanted to depict REAL medieval times, you'd have to portray all the sex-related mischief as more negative. Mushoku doesn't do this, however, it's all "funny" or otherwise inconsequential.

This goes to Kraco, as well:
I know that there are other, worse Isekai shows. I've seen too many. I am enjoying Mushoku. But I can enjoy an ecchi isekai AND acknowledge its shortcomings. Is this only better than other trash, or is it a good fantasy anime? Because imo it's definitely not the latter. When I think of good fantasy anime, I think of Record of Lodoss War. And if you want to claim that Mushoku is anywhere near Lodoss' quality, then you're clinically insane. So at best this anime is better than, say, Smartphone Isekai. Cool. But that doesn't mean it's "good". I'm enjoying it while it's airing, but I'll probably never rewatch it. Afterwards, I'll slowly forget about it, maybe not, but only because of the controvery it arose. Meanwhile isekai like Re:Zero or SAO (the beginning) will always stay with me and I'll rewatch them because they're bonafide GOOD. Shows like Kumo Isekai might join that rank, Overlord getting nowhere in S3 is leaving it.

Ask yourself this: Would Mushoku be any worse if ALL the ecchi scenes (not counting the flashback to his old life) were missing? I can answer that with a definite NO. If the author wanted to portray Rudy's struggle with old, nasty habits, he could have done that A ) all inside his head, and B) without the cringe hentai-grin. Rudy is voiced by frikkin Kon's voice actor, WHO BETTER would be able to act the thoughts of a distressed mind?! No need to show and act out any criminal pervert scenes, just have Kon argue with himself. It was such an obvious choice, but instead they give Rudy a cheap pervert grin. sigh

Again, because I want to make this clear: I'm mostly enjoying this anime. And I'm okay with degenerate scenes, with ecchi, with gratuitous rape, with any heinous shit. I'm 100% against censorship and pro-creative freedom. But: I want it to make sense. That's what makes a good story. Internal logic. And Mushoku is missing that internal logic whenever it tells us anything ecchi. You know what would have been more meaningful and thus better? If Rudy had full-on raped Eris. Rape her, satisfy his own nasty urges. Then afterwards DEAL WITH IT. Show us what it did to Eris (and no, not in the Zenith-way of showing her all happy and fallen in love with her rapist ...). Show us how she lost all her confidence suddenly and is shy and such. Show us Rudy feeling miserable about what he did and how he intends to make up for it (admit his crime and go to prison/execution? Be sent on a punishing mission? Avoiding punishment, but ask for Eris forgiving + maybe taking responsibility and marry her? Etc, etc.. ). THAT would be meaningful development. When the merchant offers him an aphrodisiac, have Rudy make a loud scene how dare that old man tell a 7yo kid about sex and stuff!!1, like that.

This is what makes all this dumb ecchi scenes so frustrating: There's so much potential for a good story, for good development. But it never happens.

Btw, the merchant tried to sell the drug to Rudeus because merchants sell stuff. That's their profession. He asked if Rudeus is from the Greyrat manor, which basically is the same as asking whether Rudeus is a pervert.

That's why he explained in detail to a 7yo boy how he'd be able to "thrust it into a woman 10 times!!1", eh?

[KrayZ33]

You'll be upset, but: You're just making flimsy excuses for dumb ecchi shit.

Yes, Zenith was gloomy for one scene in which she DIDNT interact with her husband. Then timeskip and she's all smiley-smiley with her daughter and the daughter of her companion-wife. In all these scenes, not ONCE die she interact with Paul, her husband. THAT would have been meaningful and potential development. Because that's the part that matters. How did they go on to life together? Has she forgiven him? Do they share the same bed again? Is the maid now wife #2 or is she off-limits? Is Paul truly faithful now or is he not? (his proud comment about defeating wolf warrior in bed makes this doubtful). Basically everything that would have been meaningful development didn't happen. What we see is the aftermath of a generic hentai: Guy ends up with two hot girls. Kewl.

Then watch a show that is dedicated to Zenith and Paul.

They are side characters - wtf are you talking about?
You don't dedicate a season worth of episodes to side characters.

We saw what happened, we know how everyone reacted, we know Zenith forgave Paul.
It doesn't fucking *matter* if they still sleep in the same bed or not, or rather; we don't need to see the discussion about that at all. We got the scene where they worked it out and we could clearly see that they remained together as a family and that Paul sees both children as equals and that Zenith and the Maid are now raising their children together
How dense do people have to be to not understand that with what was being shown?

Seriously? Why do you even want to see that in such detail when the show itself found a much better way to portray it with a timeskip alongside it that progressed the story at the same time

Do you have to explicitly see stuff to understand it? Do you not use your brain for a second when you watch movies or read books or do whatever?
Try adding 1 and 1 together for once.

Good story telling doesn't mean you have to show every single discussion and scene. It's probably the opposite.
When Rudy comes back from his adventure, maybe Paul gets into trouble again, that's when you will know that he still hasn't learned anything. But right now you saw what has happened, you saw the consequences, you saw how Zenith forgave him and how Paul plays the Daddy role for both and how both women are obviously the caretaker and Paul is just the usual male parent that wants to "play with their kids" but not actually do any housework etc.

Ask yourself this: Would Mushoku be any worse if ALL the ecchi scenes (not counting the flashback to his old life) were missing? I can answer that with a definite NO.

I don't know what you consider as "ecchi".
If you are talking about the maid scene for example, then hell yeah, it would be worse. Or lets say... it would be different and the story would be too.
I'd even say that Roxy sitting on the floor and pleasuring herself had some meaning to it.
It could obviously go without? Yes? But does it have to? Why?
It tells me Roxy is interested in these things, probably interested in Paul too actually.
All kinds of possibilities are open there.
She could even have left the houshold due to her romantic interest in Paul.

I also think that these shows could go without "violently hitting MC in the face when he accidently sees the female-MCs pantsu" but it's funny when it's done right, so who gives a fuck.

The fact remains that these girls aren't just hanging around MC's dick for no reason and don't go out of their way to do stupid shit all the time.
The fact remains that most of the stuff is very believable and that the side characters are getting developed alongside MC properly with or without these scenes. So what's your point.

Just because it has "ecchi" in it doesn't make it "ecchi-trash".
It's "ecchi-trash" when there is nothing but "ecchi" in it and the story goes out of its way to make the next pantsu-scene possible. Rudy actually faces issues he has to conquer and defeat and overcome, both phyiscally and mentally, not just enemies he has to defeat with his god given power and his perfectly humble personality etc..
Zenith has had to overcome her pride and maybe lost her trust in Paul we don't know yet. We don't have to know
What I can say for certain however is that she didn't take it lightly like in your usual scene:

*MC-Harem girl 1 sees MC-Harem girl 2 kiss MC*
"Baka... He's mine, it's unfair, please kiss me too now - it's only fair" - You know... like in this fucking other fantasy-level-up Anime this season where MC gets lifeforce power by kissing his harem and doing lewd shit with them, so that he can create new "skills".

You really want to compare these scenes and this show in general to *that* bullshit?
Really? I'm seriously somewhat angry if you do and just about to drop any future discussion with you forever. Not because I like *this* particular anime, but because it's just *dumb*. Honestly and *truely* dumb. Like... talking, discussing and arguing about things with Donald Trump-dumb. It's such a waste of my and everyone elses time you know? It has no basis whatsoever. As silly as this sounds, but if you just focus on the ecchi stuff, which you really don't have to do in this show at *all* because it's such a minor point in the first place, it's *miles* apart in terms of quality when it comes to every single situation compared to your usual ecchi scene.
It's almost insulting actually if it weren't so trivial in the first place... but I'm also not really happy about wasting time with troll posts and comparisons like that. You know, it's just better to not talk about that stuff at all, that'd be better than making hollow points like "this is just like any other trash isekai" when it so obviously isn't and we have an example or two every-single-season that show the exact opposite.

I can totally tell that you are in for some kind of revenge-posting because "Redo of Healer" got bashed for what it is and if you just do it because you are angry about it, I'll actually cover you and say that the show, aside from the obvious hentai scenes that are just there to pleasure the viewer and to get him to *jerk off*, is actually decent enough to be interesting from a story point of view. But then again, that's just about it... his "healing power" is obviously bullshit from every angle you look at it and that alone already shows how this show here is different from the usual isekai/fantasy/power-up trope bullshit.

I have no doubt in my mind that we'll get to see the usual harem stuff like that in the future because all animes will eventually show anime-tropes. But who knows, maybe I'm wrong and we actually don't.
So far at least we have not really gone so far in that territory at least.

edit: typos

[MFauli]

Then watch a show that is dedicated to Zenith and Paul.

They are side characters - wtf are you talking about?
You don't dedicated a season worth of episodes to side characters.

We saw what happened, we know how everyone reacted, we know Zenith forgave Paul.
It doesn't fucking *matter* if they still sleep in the same bed or not. We got the scene where they worked it out and we could clearly see that they remained together as a family.
How dense do people have to be to not understand that?
Seriously? Why do you even want to see that?

Do you have to explicitly see stuff to understand it? Do you not use your brain for a second when you watch movies or read books or do whatever?

Jeez.

What we got was the ecchi part. We got the h-doujin portion. All the potentially meaningful development stuff, that was omitted. That's what I'm criticizing, Kray.

[Kraco]

All I can conclude from that is that this WHOLE world is full of ecchi, and that this behavior is normal there. But the only way to accept that is by acknowledging that this is a dumb ecchi-anime, because if you wanted to depict REAL medieval times, you'd have to portray all the sex-related mischief as more negative. Mushoku doesn't do this, however, it's all "funny" or otherwise inconsequential.

This is still a story created by the entertainment industry. What you are saying basically equals to 95% of Hollywood action movies ending prematurely because the action hero actually was, mysteriously, unable to take out 50 enemies all on his own and thus he died. The end.

Ask yourself this: Would Mushoku be any worse if ALL the ecchi scenes (not counting the flashback to his old life) were missing? I can answer that with a definite NO. If the author wanted to portray Rudy's struggle with old, nasty habits, he could have done that A ) all inside his head, and B) without the cringe hentai-grin. Rudy is voiced by frikkin Kon's voice actor, WHO BETTER would be able to act the thoughts of a distressed mind?! No need to show and act out any criminal pervert scenes, just have Kon argue with himself. It was such an obvious choice, but instead they give Rudy a cheap pervert grin. sigh

Again, because I want to make this clear: I'm mostly enjoying this anime. And I'm okay with degenerate scenes, with ecchi, with gratuitous rape, with any heinous shit. I'm 100% against censorship and pro-creative freedom. But: I want it to make sense. That's what makes a good story. Internal logic. And Mushoku is missing that internal logic whenever it tells us anything ecchi.

Yeah, like I have said, some of the scenes weren't needed. However, this show is going out of its way to not pretend humans don't have any sexual drive or that a person like the MC, who lived a totally terrible past life, wouldn't try to live his second life, with a much better beginning, as fully as possible. Nevertheless, his character had been schooled by an endless amount of porn games and other material in his past life, so it immediately affected his priorities and decisions in this life. In my opinion Rudeus being a kind of screwed up individual is better than some goody two-shoes.

You know what would have been more meaningful and thus better? If Rudy had full-on raped Eris. Rape her, satisfy his own nasty urges. Then afterwards DEAL WITH IT. Show us what it did to Eris (and no, not in the Zenith-way of showing her all happy and fallen in love with her rapist ...). Show us how she lost all her confidence suddenly and is shy and such. Show us Rudy feeling miserable about what he did and how he intends to make up for it (admit his crime and go to prison/execution? Be sent on a punishing mission? Avoiding punishment, but ask for Eris forgiving + maybe taking responsibility and marry her? Etc, etc.. ). THAT would be meaningful development. When the merchant offers him an aphrodisiac, have Rudy make a loud scene how dare that old man tell a 7yo kid about sex and stuff!!1, like that.

You certainly would make quite a niche author if you started to write manuscripts... But no, exactly what part of Rudeus's personality makes you think he's an evil rapist? Not to mention he couldn't rape Eris even if he wanted to, unless he used his magic to render her unconscious or dead before doing the deed. But yeah, that wouldn't be Rudeus. Who knows what has made you think he's so utterly evil. It's like you are talking about a different character from a different series. He's a pervert, but he also admires Roxy and only wishes the best for her, he went really out of his way to help Sylphie and is planning to further that assistance, and he suffered a lot to try to make Eris accept education for her own good. Yes, he has lewd fantasies about all of them and wouldn't be above copping a feel, but he wouldn't want to hurt them (he just doesn't understand that groping already could hurt them).

This is what makes all this dumb ecchi scenes so frustrating: There's so much potential for a good story, for good development. But it never happens.

After reading how you wanted Rudeus to brutally rape Eris, I'm quite sure I don't want to see your version of a "potential for a good story".

That's why he explained in detail to a 7yo boy how he'd be able to "thrust it into a woman 10 times!!1", eh?

There are far worse merchants (scammers) in the real world. It's nothing short of realistic.

[KrayZ33]

What we got was the ecchi part. We got the h-doujin portion. All the potentially meaningful development stuff, that was omitted. That's what I'm criticizing, Kray.

Well, that's just not true, which is why your criticism is basically pointless because it has no basis.
You expect to see something *particular* and if that didn't happen, nothing happened.

We DID see the aftermath,
We DID see the discussion
We DID see how Zenith felt after that
We DID see how the maid felt after that
We DID see how Paul felt after that (he didn't really think it was that big of a deal - although he did at least say sorry and knew it was wrong)
We DID see that Zenith had to overcome something in her mind so that she could somehow work this out properly without being a whiny bitch that would send the maid and her unborn child to their certain death.
We DID see that Rudy is also part of that decision and that she might have made that decision for his sake too.
We DID see how Rudy thinks about Paul after that
We DID see how Rudy tried to patch up his family again.
We DID see that Rudy had to manipulate her mother a bit to make this family work again, so that he can get his way too.
We DID see that Rudy understands Zenith well enough and knows how to push her buttons and appeal to her morals and priorities
We DID see that they made up again, that they are living side by side, raising their kids and that Daddy-Paul sees both children as equals.
We DID see that both children are raised equally as well since they are sleeping in the same crip, that suggests that Zenith's doesn't get any special privileges

What exactly is the "h-portion" in all that... the h-portion wasn't even *shown*, it was only implied..... the "h-portion" was basically the maid (I'm sorry, but I just can't remember the name... Lia?) washing herself while leaving the door open, most likely on purpose from what I made out of that discussion btw. but I'm not sure. She blamed herself quite a bit and explicitly said that she seduced paul... but that might as well be more "humble" than anything.

[DarthEnderX]

Too much FUCKING TEXT!!!

[Ryllharu]

Mushoku Tensei - 07


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Generally a very predictable episode, but with a few decent gags throughout. Roxy seeing her own figurine and being incredibly creeped out by it even before the pervy prince started to treasure it was obviously was the best.

What does surprise me is that Eris is already at the cusp of being an Advanced Sword fighter and is only ten. That means right now she might be able to beat Paul on even footing, though I assume his experience would come into play.
For all her other faults, and shitty attitudes, it was too easy to forget that she's actually enthusiastic about sword fighting and is being trained by one of the greats. The opening fight was a good reminder. She must go easy on Rudy in their sparring.

The fight choreography was really impressive and quite cool. Enough for me to forgive the reused dancing practice animation.

[Munsu]

Mushoku Tensei - 07


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Generally a very predictable episode, but with a few decent gags throughout. Roxy seeing her own figurine and being incredibly creeped out by it even before the pervy prince started to treasure it was obviously was the best.

What does surprise me is that Eris is already at the cusp of being an Advanced Sword fighter and is only ten. That means right now she might be able to beat Paul on even footing, though I assume his experience would come into play.
For all her other faults, and shitty attitudes, it was too easy to forget that she's actually enthusiastic about sword fighting and is being trained by one of the greats. The opening fight was a good reminder. She must go easy on Rudy in their sparring.

The fight choreography was really impressive and quite cool. Enough for me to forgive the reused dancing practice animation.

Did we learn how far Paul has advanced though? I don't recall personally.

[Ryllharu]

Pretty sure Rudy said he was an Advanced rank of whatever school(s) with his narration. It was either the episode where Paul kicked the crap out of him during practice when Rudy tried to fire off a spell in sparring, or it was during Ghislaine's introduction in the carriage.