So I'm a Spider, So What? - Kumo Desu ga, Nani ka?

[DarthEnderX]

with the humans being super aggressive and leaving little choice for Kumoko.

They gave her tons of choice, as, after she took a couple out, all they wanted to do was escape. And she made certain they couldn't.

I also imagine she didn't even realise she was cutting off their escape route. It's not like she would have ever left the dungeon, so which route is which for her?

Except for the part where letting them escape so she could locate the entrance was part of her plan. But she could have let most of them go, instead of only 1 and a half.

The opponents might not have been humans, but neither is she a human anymore, and in the end I don't think it matters at that point any longer as much as you'd think.

It matters in regards to whether I can still sympathize with and root for the character.

If she's just a monster, I no longer care about her journey.

It was a lethal misunderstanding, and Kumoko is honestly too much of a ditz to realize how insanely strong she's gotten.

I'm not sure that excuse flies for someone who is supposedly the Master of Wisdom, specializes in perception, and has 4 minds. She should have complete situational awareness.

[Ryllharu]

They gave her tons of choice, as, after she took a couple out, all they wanted to do was escape. And she made certain they couldn't.

Except for the part where letting them escape so she could locate the entrance was part of her plan. But she could have let most of them go, instead of only 1 and a half.

We probably posted around the same time, so go back and read my post on the last page. I think you're wrong about how it actually played out.

Until she tagged them, Kumoko had no idea how to get out of the labyrinth. She hatched on the upper level, has no idea how big it is even remotely (we know it is continent-spanning from the brother and wizard's perspective), and has spent the rest of her time on the lower and middle levels.

We don't even know if she asked them how to get out before she tagged them. She thought of that when they started to teleport out. You're attributing malice on someone we positively know is an idiot.

I'm not sure that excuse flies for someone who is supposedly the Master of Wisdom, specializes in perception, and has 4 minds. She should have complete situational awareness.

Why do we think that the four parallel minds are actually smart?

[shinta|hikari]

I don't blame Kumoko at all. They invaded and razed her home, and when she tried to talk to them, they attacked her.

As she said, legitimate self-defense.

[DarthEnderX]

As she said, legitimate self-defense.

It's only self defense until they try to flee. And if you prevent their escape, that's no longer self defense. It's revenge.

Why do we think that the four parallel minds are actually smart?

You don't have to be smart to be observant, which is literally her specialty.

[Munsu]

It's only self defense until they try to flee. And if you prevent their escape, that's no longer self defense. It's revenge.

When do you presume she knew they were trying to flee? How do you know that she was trying to block their escape? She doesn't know the way out as it is. She only attacked when they attacked her, and this isn't the first time they destroyed one of her homes.

You can see this in multiple ways, killing some of them sends a message to stop fucking with her. Trying to kill all of them means that she could also be worried of the survivors being able to lead bigger parties towards her location (which has already happened to her in the past). There's safety in leaving no witnesses. She could've also meant to not kill anyone, but they attacked her and she underestimated her strength and overestimated that from humans, she did appraisal on the most powerful human wizard after all (who was later doing a massive spell)... and mix that with being angry as fuck, those are the results.

Heck, she doesn't seem aware that they can't understand her or hear her. For all we can tell, they ignored whatever she was saying and attacked her so she defended herself.

But we didn't get her POV, just her aftermath rationalization, something she always does when things don't go quite the way she planned them.

In the end, they were enemies and attacked her. She fought back, don't know more than that. She's been in constant danger and trying to survive since she was born, if you can't sympathize with that just because this time around the enemies were humans... well, that's on you.

Other than that, my appreciation is that she doesn't particularly care about humans, as in she's indifferent to them.

[DarthEnderX]

When do you presume she knew they were trying to flee? How do you know that she was trying to block their escape? She doesn't know the way out as it is.

Why would she block ANY direction unless it was to prevent them from getting away from her?

Escape doesn't just mean "back the way they came" it means "away from her". If she's webbing up passages, it's because she doesn't want them to go where she can't get them.

You can see this in multiple ways, killing some of them sends a message to stop fucking with her. Trying to kill all of them means that she could also be worried of the survivors being able to lead bigger parties towards her location (which has already happened to her in the past). There's safety in leaving no witnesses.

Yes. That IS how a complete monster would rationalize it. Thank you for making my point.

he's been in constant danger and trying to survive since she was born, if you can't sympathize with that just because this time around the enemies were humans... well, that's on you.

Is that supposed to make me think that position is actually some kind of hot take?

As a former human, she knows humans are thinking, feeling people, and not just animals, like she could have assumed everything else she's killed has been.

[Munsu]

Why would she block ANY direction unless it was to prevent them from getting away from her?

Escape doesn't just mean "back the way they came" it means "away from her". If she's webbing up passages, it's because she doesn't want them to go where she can't get them.

From the aftermath you can tell she simply dropped from where she was hanging and had it mind to "chew them out" for destroying her shit, nothing more nothing less. The old man THOUGHT she was blocking their escape. From her POV, she wasn't really blocking their escape, but again that doesn't answer the question on when she became aware that they were trying to flee, at no point did they did such a thing until they attacked her and she fought back and some ran. In fact, those that ran away she simply "marked".

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, I actually just rewatched it, and when they said she was blocking their escape I thought they meant she closed the passages. But they just meant she was standing between them and the exit. I withdraw that point.


I was also reminded that Kumo is a lot bigger than I thought she was. Much bigger than she used to be, and I thought she was picking evolutions that weren't making her bigger, but I guess they are a little.

[Munsu]

Why would she block ANY direction unless it was to prevent them from getting away from her?

Escape doesn't just mean "back the way they came" it means "away from her". If she's webbing up passages, it's because she doesn't want them to go where she can't get them.

Yes. That IS how a complete monster would rationalize it. Thank you for making my point.

It's a coping mechanism. But again, I don't think she particular cares, don't mess with her, she doesn't mess with you kind of thing.

Is that supposed to make me think that position is actually some kind of hot take?

As a former human, she knows humans are thinking, feeling people, and not just animals, like she could have assumed everything else she's killed has been.

Yet they're attacking her, so... she has to deal with it and keep surviving.

[David75]

She was human, but now she's some kind of monster and has to fight for survival every second of her life.
She still has most of her human rational wits, but the monster instincts and body will change her.

When that group of humans comes, we have to remember they are searching for a high level monster and are prepared to fight.
They burn her place, they feel hostile and when she arrives they won't change to having tea with a spider monster.

She appraises the group. She knows all the forces against her, gives the group time. But she needs to keep them in sight because even if most of the group members are weak, she fears a coordinated attack.
So she places herself in a position where she can see all of the group and starts disabling them from the weaker ones and up.
Her last attack was extremely powerful and there was a clear intent to kill considering how arms and parts of torsoes disappeared from both guys. We also know that her venom attack probably is her finishing move.

The only thing I'd like to know is what she did with the bodies if she killed all the soldier we've seen falling.
I do not see what she could have done with all those soliders after they wake-up if she only stunned them.
From the mage perspective, he was the only survivor with the other guy he teleported with him.


Again, Wakaba is considered dead, because if her former classmates meet her re-incarnation, they need to fight for their survival without delay caused by hesitation about her beign a former classmate.

[Kraco]

I get a feeling that if DarthEnderX was reborn as a monster in that dungeon, he wouldn't last long. He's too soft. Humans enter that dungeon with one purpose only: To kill monsters. We have seen no indication anybody would be there to collect some crystals from the walls, or anything like that. Even the monsters living there, logically, would only be living their lives, hunting suitable prey or defending their territory, just like animals in RL. The monsters aren't prowling the whole place, trying to slay everything that moves. Well, except for Kumoko, who used to be a human.

[Ryllharu]

I was also reminded that Kumo is a lot bigger than I thought she was. Much bigger than she used to be, and I thought she was picking evolutions that weren't making her bigger, but I guess they are a little.

I'm starting to wonder if she really was small to begin with. She was a small "teratect," but how big is a teratect? How big is her mother? We have no scale. Have we seen one of the frogs since Kumoko evolved? And how big are those frogs compared to humans?

Fei is getting bigger because we have human scale to compare her to.

Kumoko has stuck with the smaller evolution paths because she likes maintaining a high speed form.

[Kraco]

Kumoko has stuck with the smaller evolution paths because she likes maintaining a high speed form.

I believe she's sticking to the small form because it makes her feel less like a monster, it allows her to move around, possibly including leaving the dungeon, and if she leaves the dungeon, it would allow her to avoid attention unlike having the size of a house. However, above all, she wants to aim for the arachne form, which obviously isn't gigantic. The big forms are also often final, adult forms.

Also, we have seen a scale. Kumoko was about the same size as the dragon egg, which was a bit bigger than a human torso. I don't think her size has changed significantly from that, despite the many evolutions. Her mother has the size of a large house, in comparison.

[Munsu]

.

The only thing I'd like to know is what she did with the bodies if she killed all the soldier we've seen falling.
I do not see what she could have done with all those soliders after they wake-up if she only stunned them.
From the mage perspective, he was the only survivor with the other guy he teleported with him.

I honestly think this was an animation mistake. They didn't get transported from what I could tell, and when the spell was used they disappeared from the cave

[David75]

Error aside:
-if the bodies are still in the cave, did she eat them ? We know she's a glutton, but we do not know her full stance towards humans. If she didn't did the bodies rot there to be eaten by whatever irrelevant to kumoko criters are still living in the labyrinth ? Or if not dead, she left them to die trying to get out ?
-if the bodies got teleported too, well we would then know they were killed and not just stunned.

Not sure we'll get anything about this next ep.

[MFauli]

If she ate the dead humans, I would 100% count her as an Overlord-like villain. No redemption from there. The self-defense excuse is flimsy enough, but there's no excuse for eating humans.

[Kraco]

If she ate the dead humans, I would 100% count her as an Overlord-like villain. No redemption from there. The self-defense excuse is flimsy enough, but there's no excuse for eating humans.

You must have forgotten your Overlord entirely.

[Ryllharu]

The self-defense excuse is flimsy enough, but there's no excuse for eating humans.

Sounds like somethin a human would say...

She ate the tiny bugs that made her vomit repeatedly until she gained a rot resistance from it. She risked death dragging a half-fried dragon corpse away from the returning lava.

One thing she doesn't do is waste food. Unlike her other classmates living the soft life.

I'm kind of missing the logic behind how that makes her irredeemable. She's a spider, not a human. She got Kin Eater title from easting already-dead spiders (which honestly is pretty natural on Earth).

[MFauli]

So far my expectation was that she'd eventually rejoin her friends. If she's reached the point where she eats human bodies, I no longer can expect that. That's how she'd be irredeemable for me. Ofc, she can happily on being a monster and demon lord.

You must have forgotten your Overlord entirely.

Ainz is a pure villain at the point of season 3.

[DarthEnderX]

I get a feeling that if DarthEnderX was reborn as a monster in that dungeon, he wouldn't last long. He's too soft.

At literally no point in the series so far has her survival required killing a human. Like, so far, all they've done is burn her "house"(a web that takes her, like, an hour to rebuild) a couple times. Which is annoying, yes, but hasn't threatened her survival in any way. She could honestly just leave them alone and there's nothing they could do to her.

This is also, like, the 2nd time now someone's like "Man, if DEX was a monster he wouldn't immediately start murdering people. What a beta cuck!". Like it's some sick burn.

She's a spider, not a human.

This argument is so stupid. Spiders aren't fucking former people. They don't have thoughts and feelings.

It's like if someone swapped you guys' brains with a serial killer, you'd all immediately be like "Well, I'm a serial killer now! Better start serial killing!"

You're still the person you were before, you just have a different body now!


And yeah, I get that you want to survive still(although not really, cause now you know you get reincarnated as something else when you die, so why would you even fear death anymore?), but I don't understand this idea that literally anything is justified as long as you survive.

Like, if someone held a gun to my head and was like "Nuke this city or I'm gonna kill you." I'd like to think I let myself die. But apparently y'all be like "Whelp! I gotta survive! So long city!"