Transgressive elements in Anime

[MFauli]

This mainly relates to rape, but let's invite all sorts of transgressions.

I've just read the most disgusting thread on another forum known for its extreme sjws. The thread basically claims most anime fans are alt-right nazis. The reasons? Sexy girls, mainly.

What really grates me,however, is how these assholes keep complaining about rape themes in anime, basically demanding that it doesn't happen at all. What's super ridiculously: apparently Tate no Yuusha is shit, because it features a false-rape accusation. Since sjws only think in groups, not in individuals, that's a no-no, because false-rape accusations statistically rarely, you know. So that's why depicting one in anime maked it alt-right. Wft.

I honestly hate these censorship movements. Anime has always been great because it freely chooses to do whatever it wants to do. Ffs, I've never seen an alt-right anime. Anime, if anything, is progressive BEYOND what these asses complain about. Complaining about loli girls? In anime, these loli girls have agenda, fight monsters or are scientists! But no, can't have sexualized underage characters, because they're real ...waitwat.

Ah, I just hate it. And Crunchyroll might support future changes towards these people's wishes. Fuck them. Anime always was a creatively free medium. Authoritarians should fuck off with their nazi-demands.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/the...ntalism.97504/

[shinta|hikari]

Tried reading the essay. Way too long. Tried reading the comments. Way too many.

[KrayZ33]

It's embarassing to think people believe anime always have some kind of political meaning to them.

They'd blame Rambo movies too. You can't win against it. They don't understand that you can watch that stuff even though you are a normal decent human being in real life that won't take women for granted or as slaves.

At the same time, this whole issue lies in the eye of the beholder.

You can look at Shield Hero and say that this show is about men "owning" women and that the author wants to point out that women want to *serve* men. The woman is also shown as the "poison" and scheming part of the show, while the man is the honest counterpart that only wants to help others.

You can also look at the same show and say that women are the most important and precious part of a man's life and that a man's success in life relies completely on the strength of his partner. Even when the whole world will turn it's back on him, he knows that the woman by his side will *remain* by his side. She will stand up for him and move heaven and earth to see him succeed. She is the support he needs to snap out of his grief, to snap out of his doubtful self, to *enable* him to move forward.
She steps in where he can't and at the same time gives his whole existence a meaning. A shield that doesn't protect anything is useless.. it's dead weigth, a burden even..


As for my opinion, I've rarely seen an anime or movie where the main girl plays such an important role as in Shield Hero.
The main character is *literally* (not just metaphorical) not able to fight or move on without her. And by no means does the author hide her selfless, most virtuous soul behind any ulterior motives or anything that would even remotely compare to that. It's basically an ode to women and their warmth towards their loved ones, their loyality, their ability to move others and to their impact on every man's life - but oh well... as I said, it completely depends on what you want to get out of it.

That's why I think censorship is mostly useless... you can/should censor with age restrictions in mind, but not content in general. I can always decide not to watch it if I feel "offended"... But I can't honestly judge things on my own when I'm getting told what to like/watch and what not.

These "haters", as we'd call them today, are trying to judge people for something they don't agree with. It's hardly worth the effort to explain that their mindset is extremely limited and one dimensional. Why focus on the positive, when it's much easier to just distort reality and fiction alike into the void and darkness that mirrors their mind.

[Ryllharu]

So, I'm not going to bother reading the link, because we've all seen that shit before a dozen, dozen times.

I honestly hate these censorship movements. Anime has always been great because it freely chooses to do whatever it wants to do. Ffs, I've never seen an alt-right anime. Anime, if anything, is progressive BEYOND what these asses complain about. Complaining about loli girls? In anime, these loli girls have agenda, fight monsters or are scientists! But no, can't have sexualized underage characters, because they're real ...waitwat.

Anime always was a creatively free medium.

Instead...let's focus on the wrong-ness of your perspective.

Japan censors. Holy shit does it censor. It most certainly has not freely chosen to show what it does. They have censorship boards, ethics councils, complaint hubs, etc. It has gotten a little bit more lenient...lately. And I don't mean localization (that's always been a problem, often to a hilarious or eye-rolling degree). Internally, they get the same stupid shit complaints the US media gets. And also legit stuff like the hardcore incest of certain notably controversial series. Or other traumatic stuff.

But what they censor is very different.

Think an occasional beam of light or black blood is a problem today? Shigofumi shadowed out the final third of an entire episode to the degree where it was unwatchable. Why? Shotgun in a school scene. But it was actually like...every episode that featured guns.

Oh, and we all remember Nice Boat.

Japan is also super sensitive to depictions of terrorism (because of the subway sarin attack), suicide (any kind of justification or promotion thereof), some forms of nationalism (specifically ultranationalist right-wing...until recently), and...disabled people.

There was a fair amount of controversy over High School of the Dead at one point. Because of the gore, because of the guns, or because of the pervy art? Nope. Takagi's (twin-tail glasses) parents. Ultranationalists depicted in a positive light. That was then. Now, as ultranationalists slowly creep back into mainstream politics, you probably wouldn't see it as a controversy now. It is less objectionable because Japan is becoming more nationalistic (just like everyone).

Koe no Katachi (A Silent Voice)? Critically acclaimed manga and movie? It took years to publish the series despite the praise her one-shot got because the series is somewhat critical of the way Japanese society treats the disabled. Which isn't well. Plus the suicide parts of it. There may or may not have even been a lawsuit to forcibly have it published.

GATE is an obvious pro-military and nationalistic series. Kantai Collection less so, but it is one too. But they'd never show that stuff earlier. Now they do. Gunbuster was one of the few exceptions, and that was an OVA.

[DarthEnderX]

Ah, I just hate it. And Crunchyroll might support future changes towards these people's wishes. Fuck them. Anime always was a creatively free medium. Authoritarians should fuck off with their nazi-demands.

You are just as bad as them, just on the opposite side.

This thread you made here, is literally the exact same shit they're doing.

[MFauli]

@Ryll:

It's hard replying level-headedly when you start with an unnecessaryvad hominem :/ Anyway: i'm fully aware that Japan does its fair share of censoring, too. However, i can much better understand when violence/gore is censored as opposed to sexy girls (and we're not talking about actual hentai stuff).

On top of that, the current censorship agenda happens from an outside force (Sony California), which is just super gross. On top of that, it's disgusting how people who don't watch these anime/play these games demand they be changed. Ffs, I myself don't watch any of shinta's loli moe-anime, but I will defend his right to watch them with my life. Fuck censorship that's based on puritanism and furthered via Authoritarianism.

You are just as bad as them, just on the opposite side.

This thread you made here, is literally the exact same shit they're doing.

I'm against censorship. They demand it. Stop being dumb.

[Ryllharu]

It's not an ad hominem. I'm calling you a misguided weeaboo because the reasons you list for why they're wrong are wrong.

There are "alt-right" anime. By anyone's definition. You've watched them. GATE is one of them. So is Gantz. Terra Formars too(though that might almost reach parody). And there is much worse, much more blatant stuff out there. Most "alternate history" anime series have some significant degree of nationalistic pro-Imperialism themes and messages.

If you had said, "Manga has always been great because it freely chooses to do whatever it wants to do." I might have even agreed with you. But you said "Anime." Which isn't true. Anime is controlled by time slots, same as anywhere else. It gets away with "more" because most of it is late night (e.g. 12am-2am) or airs on satellite stations, or airs satellite stations late at night. Why do you think some series only air on AT-X?

Japan's Broadcasting Ethics & Program Improvement Organization gets complaints about pervy anime all the time too. Regardless of when they air or what stations they're broadcast on.

Oh, and got cancelled because it was blatantly racist.

[Kraco]

Oh, and got cancelled because it was blatantly racist.

The series isn't blatantly racist (I should know since I read the manga). The author had posted some racist Twitter (or something) comments years ago, against the Chinese or Koreans, I can't remember. Like it always happens in the internets, somebody dug up the old dirt. Since the author's name was thus marred, the anime project was frozen.

Manga and light novels are full of Japanese nationalistic/patriotic elements, some more, some less subtle. Have been, will be. Some of them find their way into anime as well, naturally, since many a manga and LN is adapted into anime. They don't really bother me any more than the Americans always saving the world in Hollywood movies. That "Nidome no Jinsei" series Ryll mentioned is exactly like that as well. It's a common theme in isekai that the new world is a lousy place and only a Japanese person can make it better by introducing Japanese things into it (although many of those Japanese things aren't really Japanese, but who cares).

[MFauli]

@Ryll: 'Fuck the rest of your posting, here's why you're dumb' is ad hominem imo.

Anyway, you're entirely wrong. I watched GATE (and hated it), I watched GANTZ (and love it). Apparently you don't understand what alt-right meant in that context. The crazies in my link claim that anime are for alt-righters. That if you like Tate no Yuusha, you're alt-right. Can we agree that's bs?

I'm sure if you WANT to see rightwing messages in certain anime, you can. But that's an ill-rooted twisting of what's there. Most people, I reckon, simply enjoy the world, the characters, the drama. Gantz is alt-right? Fuck off, I loved it for its compessionate heroes and the fascinating life-death concept. Gate? Real world clashing with fantasy, love it.

You're commiting the same mistake these crazies do: because an anime features a certain element, it MUST be a wider message from the author! So the false-rape accusation in Tate is the author saying 'screw rape victims!' Right? Wrong. It's just the story of a fictional character getting hit with said false-rape accusation. No more. Stop making all these lunatic connectiond and extrapolations! When I write a story where someone is murdered, it doesn't mean I'm for real murder. When a fictional character rapes, I'm.not for real rape. And so on.

Specifically for Japan,also, it's even less likely to be politically motivated and more a consequence of shitty writing. Outside of Japanese politicians, I've never seen Japanese people care much about politics. Even less those in the industry. Calling GATE alt-right? Nah, thate probably the author having a boner for military stuff and isekai stories. But interest in military doesn't make you alt-right.

Btw a friend told me crunchyroll isnt in favor of censorship, so I'll apologize to crunchyroll.

[shinta|hikari]

If you're against censorship, I totally back you with that. Same way I actually dislike rape but will fight (not to the death but close to it) to prevent its censorship.

What I can't back you up on is just hating uninformed people. They should be conversed with so that both parties can come to a compromise, or at least a better understanding of each other. If I'm not gonna go through the trouble of fixing a problem, or at least try to, I'm not gonna complain about it.

While I do think Gate is quite nationalistic and right leaning, it doesn't seem alt right because the term alt right is more of an American thing.

EDIT:
I'm playing and loving azur lane right now, and I'm so glad the EN version isn't censored. The Korean and Chinese versions are apparently censored.

EDIT2:
Or so I thought... WTF...

"The only thing they are censoring are boob grab implying lines for lolis"

[MFauli]

Azur Lane is definitely censored,I remember some artworks where boobs are more covered up - because boobs are scary /s

[DarthEnderX]

I'm against censorship. They demand it. Stop being dumb.

Yeah, but you're, like, pro-glorifying rape and kiddie porn. So you don't really get to claim the moral high ground.

[shinta|hikari]

Of fictional characters?

Morals are so strange nowadays.

[MFauli]

Yeah, but you're, like, pro-glorifying rape and kiddie porn. So you don't really get to claim the moral high ground.

If an author wants to glorify rape? Yes, absolutely. Have fun in your nazi-book burning world :/

[DarthEnderX]

Of fictional characters?

Morals are so strange nowadays.

I just think that's what hentai is for.

If you're going to make porn, make fucking porn. I never really understood the point of trying to insert porn into something that isn't porn. You aren't really servicing anyone at that point.

If an author wants to glorify rape? Yes, absolutely. Have fun in your nazi-book burning world :/

You're assuming my position is that it shouldn't be allowed. It's not.

My position is that the people that make it and the people that read it are scumbags. You're ALLOWED to be a scumbag. You need to understand though that people are going to think you're a scumbag for liking it, and that's also allowed. And some companies don't want to carry content for scumbags, and that's ALSO allowed.

You seem to be under the impression that a company choosing what shows they do and do not want to show on their own service is somehow censorship. It's not. Censorship is when it's actually against the law. If Crunchyroll doesn't want to carry a show because it's something only scumbags would want to watch, that's THEIR decision to make.

At at the end of the day, you're still the scumbag that's arguing against censorship. You're like a KKK member that's trying to fight cancer. You're probably doing your cause more harm than good because, like, man, cancer sucks, but if that KKK guy hates it, maybe cancer's not so bad after all.

[shinta|hikari]

Liking something makes people scumbags now? Even if they didn't actually DO anything?

Also, I think Mfauli is thinking more along the lines of self-censorship.

And I think causes should be separated from the people supporting them. Completely. A cause or goal (or even products/media content) should be evaluated on its own merit, not based on the people it is associated with (i.e. Asia Argento and MeToo).

[DarthEnderX]

Liking something makes people scumbags now? Even if they didn't actually DO anything?

Yes, liking scummy things makes you a scumbag. If they actually DID something, they'd be rapists and child molesters. Which is considerably worse than being a scumbag. But that doesn't earn them a round of applause for ONLY being scumbags.

[shinta|hikari]

Wait, we're still talking about anime (fictional) stuff here, right? After all, it's in the thread title. Kinda extreme to be calling people scumbag for liking certain types of anime, especially since they aren't harming anyone by doing so.

[MFauli]

Censorship has nothing exclusively to do with the government. Read the official Oxford definition, not gonna copypaste it, because I've had the 'pleasure' of meeting other idiots who refused to acknowledge the Censorship is not 'the government'. It's all there, you're wrong.

And I find shocking that you call people who enjoy stories with rape or false-rape accusations 'scumbags', that both readers and authors are scumbags. Hypocritically, you don't apply this same train lf thought to ANY non-sexual topics. Clearly, an author and audience who like murder and destruction are also complete scumbags, huh? But no, not seeing you be upset over that. Phoney!

Why sex should be in non-porn? Because sex isn't something to be ashamed of, it's not something that needs to be locked away until late at night when noone is around to see you approach it. Sexual activity adds as much to a story as any everyday element. Ffs, anime are still so childish that we (most of us) get all hot and bothered over a series like Domesticna Kanojo - all because 'omg sex!' I just finished watching the first Ippo-anime (75 episodes) and Ippo can't even tell Kumi-chan 'i like you' over the whole course! Itq fucking ridiculous. Sex needs to be an everyday occurence in media, just like it is irl. And rape happens. It's probably a more often occurring crime in the west than murder. Yet, here we have one false-rape accusation and snowflakes go nuts.

Btw I'm not saying I need to SEE sex/rape happen. Fade to black, make it sound-only, whatever. But I absolutely want it to be an element that isn't treated as a taboo. If you keep calling me a scumbag for that, I'll call you what you are: an authoritarian puritan, who's obsessed with his very own morality and tries pushing his view of the world on others.

[DarthEnderX]

Censorship has nothing exclusively to do with the government. Read the official Oxford definition, not gonna copypaste it, because I've had the 'pleasure' of meeting other idiots who refused to acknowledge the Censorship is not 'the government'. It's all there, you're wrong.

Yes. It also says that a crane is a piece of construction equipment. And yet, this bird here is also a crane! *gasp*

If the censorship your against is so fucking broad it includes literally everything covered by the dictionary definition than what the fuck is even the point. You're like a cartoon person trying to argue with God against the concept of aging!

CrunchyRoll is a company that gets to decide the kind of audience they WANT to try and attract. If they don't WANT creeps to be their audience, they don't have carry products that attract creeps. You're the one trying to tell THEM what THEY can do with THEIR business.

If you keep calling me a scumbag for that, I'll call you what you are: an authoritarian puritan

Deal.