~implying the death penalty is a just punishment~
har har har....
Naofumi got *his* revenge. That is all that matters to him - as Kraco pointed out, it doesn't matter whether the people of the country have open business with them, he has not.
Naofumi doesn't want to be the *reason* for their execution, it's as simple as that. What's the point in executing them anyway. I think they got off too easily too, but I'd prefer prison time for them over execution any day.
Last edited by KrayZ33; Thu, 05-30-2019 at 04:32 AM.
Nah, in my opinion this episode made it quite clear how Naofumi felt about it. He was pondering why he felt uneasy about having them executed, as opposed to stopping it. Those are his feelings. Don't confuse your own feelings with Naofumi's. He was the one being persecuted for no reason of his own, so it was his call. Furthermore, in my opinion he clearly did hate the country, represented by the king, the corrupt nobles, and the even more corrupt church. He just didn't hate all the people, like the villagers out there who were often suffering just much as he was, or the blacksmith. However, he's still stuck on protecting them all as defeating the waves is required for staying alive and possibly getting back home.Originally Posted by MFauli
Furthermore, only an idiot would want to live for hatred and vengeance alone. He has got Raphtalia and Filo, who love him, so he's much happier trying to forget all the bad things and pushing forward. He knows it, after getting pulled back a couple of times from the cursed shield's darkness by them.
If I recall it correctly the Manga did not have the execution scene. The King was frozen by the queen the moment she entered the throne room when he ordered to restrain Naofumi. Myne later got a slave crest to force her to tell the truth. I think she later asks him what their punishment should be and he chose exile and stripping them of everything. Plus changing Myne's name.
For Myne that would be the worse punishment. Losing her status, name, wealth, everything. Plus everyone knows what she did.
There's no telling what would happen to them after they'd be exiled.
I'm pretty sure Mfauli is right about the reason it ended with such a light punishment. Mainstream anime generally avoids truly cruel protagonists, like Ainz. They are heroes, after all, in this case literally.
Sure, Naofumi had reason to do what he did, but that's because he was written that way. And the reason he was written that way is because of what I said above.
The worse punishment would be goblins.
Peace.
If you use that argument, we might as well stop talking about episodes entirely, apart from technical factors like music, animation, voice acting, etc.
Not at all. Writing and plot direction is one of the most basic reasons to critique any piece of work. The path the author chose is very safe and generic, and typically absurdly merciful. In other words, it is expected and boring, which is not something praiseworthy for a story. The writing is also quite forceful in taking it in this direction. The punishment doesn't match the crime at all, even according to the queendom's own laws and norms, but in the end, the bad guys are left to roam free.
The fact that almost everyone here thinks the punishment was too light, even those who think it was reasonable for Naofumi to do what he did, supports my point.
EDIT:
Apparently, in the WN and LN(?), it was Naofumi who called for their execution, but the queen pleaded for their lives, which was why he settled on exile and the names. Now that makes a lot more sense.
The manga also handles this differently.
Last edited by shinta|hikari; Thu, 05-30-2019 at 09:29 AM.
Peace.
Do the complainers not get the point of this? Naofumi gets exonerated, and he proves he's a better person than Malty and the King by accepting a lenient punishment despite all he went through. The "alternate" versions in the LN and manga aren't any different. He gets shouty, yells, but accepts the worse punishment of leaving them alive to suffer in ridicule the same way he suffered in scorn.
It's unjust though. The punishment doesn't match the crime. That's not being a better person. If you are against the death penalty (which clearly Naofumi was), then they should've at least imprisoned them for life.
Leaving them alive and free to suffer ridicule isn't worse than death according to Bitch herself. She wholeheartedly begged Naofumi to save her, after all.
EDIT:
I definitely prefer the manga version. The king and princess couldn't be killed due to political reasons, so the Queen proposes endless torture, which Naofumi, coming from the modern world, couldn't choose. By doing so, she tricks him into choosing a lighter punishment even though he wanted to kill them at first. The queen also comes off as smarter and more in control instead of a sappy mom.
What was the Queen's plan B anyway? Offer her life, the only competent ruler of the queendom, to save the 2 criminals? What's gonna happen to the country once she is dead? Melty is a kid, so she obviously can't rule yet. What the heck was her end game if she did that? Ruin her country, which is already in a precarious situation? If the Queen is also spared, that's basically injustice. The royal family basically abused their power to avoid punishment right in front of all the people.
Add to that there was a good chance Naofumi would just let the execution happen. He didn't sentence them, after all, absolving him of some guilt, and Japan even has the capital punishment. What nonsense.
Last edited by shinta|hikari; Thu, 05-30-2019 at 11:16 AM.
Peace.
Thx for touching on exactly the topic I wanted to talk about. Let me ask those of you who are ok with the 'punishment' they got: Do you think, Naofumi would be a bad/worse person had he *not* prevented their execution? Would he be in any way a lesser hero then? Less moral?
That's my core issue with your 'he proved he's the better person': fuck no, he WAS tge better person from the beginning! He didn't do what Myne accused him of. He beared with everything that was done to him unjustly. He still gave his all to become stronger to fight as a hero. He cleaned up the mess the other heroes left, saving hundreds of lives. He's the ine who brought back together the 4 heroes despite their behavior towards him. And so on.
Naofumi WAS the better person. He didn't need to prove. Neither to us nor the in-anime people who witnessed that Myne and the king had spread lies about him, and the people he helped knew about his good deeds. His status quo was 'better person'. So letting two disgusting criminals die would have not made a dent in his 'better person' armor. You guys really disagree? Talking about 'it would have lead him on a dark path'? Pls ...
Fair enough. He displayed his true quality as a person, in contrast to the lies that had been spread about him since he was accused.
His actions up until this point proved he wasn't the person he was claimed to be. That's why all the citizens of the outskirts respected him more than the other heroes. He acted selflessly the whole time he was overtly acting like an mercenary asshole.
Like, demands money and rewards...spends it all on components for priceless healing potions he just casually gives away.
Lol... your vision of justice is as twisted as a pretzel.letting two disgusting criminals die would have not made a dent in his 'better person' armor. You guys really disagree? Talking about 'it would have lead him on a dark path'? Pls ...
Give me one reason as to why he should let them die - when they are supposed to be killed for his sake - but he already knows that it won't make him feel better.
He would indeed be a failure of a hero, "less moral" as you put it and not the man his companions know him to be, if he did not (try to) prevent it.
Capital punishment is garbage tier in the great book of justice.
The great people of our existence have always told us to not seek revenge. Seeking justice it is indeed the feat of a hero. Seeking revenge is not - and seeking revenge is not seeking justice.
If we must:
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth - even the jews of the past had a better justice system than what you are asking for. If he is to judge let them suffer pain to a similar degree and not above it.
Ryll pointed it out wonderfully
He gets shouty, yells, but accepts the worse punishment of leaving them alive to suffer in ridicule the same way he suffered in scorn.
Last edited by KrayZ33; Thu, 05-30-2019 at 04:00 PM.
Irl I'm against the death penalty. We're not discussing rl. In their world, the death penalty is a thing. Murdering people happens all the time, it's not a rare occurrence (speaking as a European).
It's not an eye for an eye situation at all. There's a point that someone committed so much evil that he/she is irredeemable. See Hitler. Even in today's society you'd have to guard him, because people would demand his execution. Should Andrej Breivik ever get out of Swedish prison, he probably won't live for long - killing 87 young people does that.
Bitch Slut did worse. He action caused hundreds of deaths. This isn't about Naofumi's feelings, it's about a society's justice, and that world's justice involves the death penalty as a proper means of punishment. If Melty wasn't a sexy young woman, but a disgusting fat, old smelly guy, or just a full-on orc, you wouldn't even think about letting him stay alive, be honest.
You really have the audacity to call Naofumi less moral had he not stopped a 100% just punishment? Then your morals are seriously scewed up in the context of this anime.
And let me add: Youre even igoring that Bitch Slut hasn't changed at all! She never apologized, never showed any growth. The name change and loss of title and wealth surely are humiliating, but guess what: She'll continue to scheme deadly crimes. Isn't it great that Naofumi let her live!!1 This is Batman-levels of dumb, 'i'll never kill the Joker ...oops, he broke out of Arkham and killed another 100 civilians, oh snap'.
Last edited by Buffalobiian; Thu, 05-30-2019 at 08:10 PM.
It's not only about Naofumi, though. Malty and the king abused power, acted contrary to the benefit of the nation, ignored the real ruler's (the queen) instructions and intentions, and colluded with the usurper pope. They were guilty of high treason. I doubt there were many absolute monarchies that wouldn't have executed people for high treason. It's just that the ordinary citizens in the capital experienced none of the results of their wrongdoings, they only knew about Naofumi and how Naofumi had been persecuted.
The law..?
Peace.
If it's the law, then Naofumi wouldn't have been able to be the judge and decide their sentence.
And the queen could've done whatever as she is the judge of the country.
The very fact that she gave Naofumi the option to decide means that the whole thing was about him, and no one else or about upholding the laws of the country.
How is that a reason for someone in Naofumis situation?
The death penalty is used to give the victim closure, he doesn't get it because he's actually a decent human being, so what's the point of that law for him?
Last edited by KrayZ33; Fri, 05-31-2019 at 10:02 AM.
LOL. Whatever man.
Peace.
It's not Naofumi's job to uphold the law, it's the Queen's job to ignore Naofumi pleading
Naofumi is the dude who says "man, I don't need them to get that punishment, I'm fine"
The Justice System has to punish them according to what society asks of it (Unless of course Naofumi is the sole claimant of course (no claimant, no judge)). If it's high treason and that's reason enough for the death penalty, then Naofumi couldn't do jack.
Seriously, that's such a shitty reason for Naofumi to not ask the queen to change her judgement
"sorry man, you have to die, I don't really want it either, even though I'm the victim here - but that's the law dude! Shit happens - theoretically, I'm allowed to pardon you since I'm not getting any kicks or anything out of your decapitation, but I won't - because I care about "the laws."
The only normal choice from him as a caring human being would've been to ask the queen to stop the execution and see where it goes from there.
Last edited by KrayZ33; Fri, 05-31-2019 at 10:20 AM.
Okay....
Peace.
No point in saying "okay" when you disagree.
Explain why "the law" has any meaning for Naofumi in that situation.
If you can't explain, why write it in the first place?
"Because the law demands it!Give me one reason as to why he should let them die
So? And Naofumi would care for that? Really?
It might be the reason why they should've been executed anyway, but not why Naofumi should've let it happen and not try to stop it.
I can explain, I just don't want or see the need to.
Peace.
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