Tate no Yuusha no Nariagari

[NeoCybercoin]

Well...besides the Rage Shield being more than capable of actually killing Spear. But that's not really something you'd use while claiming your innocence huh.

[David75]

I read the manga quite fast, now that the anime follows it like a storyboard, I understand how slow-paced it is.
My only hope is we get to a point I've been waiting for since ep one, before the end of the season.

[shinta|hikari]

@Krayz - I don't care what you think about what I would've done. I just don't want you misrepresenting what I said. I was pretty clear about what I said I would've done in Naofumi's shoes, but you worded it in a very different manner. Whether you think what I would've done is appropriate or adequate for this show or otherwise is irrelevant to me.

Filo and Raphtalia are part of his arsenal and count when I said all weapons available to him.

[KrayZ33]

I never said anything about what I think you would've done.

I'm saying that he acted according to what you said you would've done.

Your plan is - talk -> if talking doesn't work -> use force -> explain again and show your benevolent side.
That's what Naofumi did. I didn't misinterpret anything because that's what you wrote.

I asked how Naofumi was supposed to act. You came up with something that is very, very, very similar, pretty much identical to what he did.
And I basically said "well, that's what he did".


Don't act as if I twisted words. Either you mean what you say or you don't. I'm breaking it down for you.

If words failed about twice,....

About twice is an estimate, could be thrice, could be once too.

Naofumi talked to Spear a few times, he offered more attempts than what you would offer Spear, so it seems.

....I would've convinced him using sheer force. If you beat him down until he can't do anything anymore, and then properly explain,....

That's what Naofumi did/tried to do too - see lightning cage scene

....and then heal and free them afterwards, they'd at least know you could've killed them but clearly didn't. That'd go against the idea that Naofumi killed the other heroes, making it more likely for anyone, including the Spear dood, to believe him.

That's exactly the same as protecting him from certain death via the beam, they could've protected themselves and leave them to die/get hurt outside, but he didn't. It goes completely against Naofumi killing the heroes. Why would he save the guy he wants to see dead.


So I am saying, any other action than that would be weird, considering what Bigbird told him to do.
As you can see, he action mirror what you said you would do.




So I'm asking again, how was he supposed to act?

Answer so far: "He should've used force sooner" (nothing else, because everything else is the same)
I argue: "He's not there to fight but to reconcile" - since he can't use force himself and has to use others to do his dirty work, he might be more hesitant to do so because he is actually a nice guy.

[shinta|hikari]

I don't care how he was supposed to act. All I said is what I would've done.

[KrayZ33]

Why did you state what you would've done exactly?

Because I asked how he was supposed to act, am I wrong?

Or "Just because"? Who's gonna believe that...
You didn't even realize how similar that situation was when you wrote it down.
What a joke... whatever.

[shinta|hikari]

Because I think Naofumi is dumb and I am smarter than him.

[KrayZ33]

Well, looks like you are not .
And you tried to answer my question. So you did indeed care about what he was supposed to do.
Your post just now confirms this as well, stop the troll.

And the pointless hate as well... absolutely no fun to discuss shows when it's all about baseless issues/problems such as this.

[shinta|hikari]

If words failed about twice, I would've convinced him using sheer force.

Just quoting myself because you seem to like misrepresenting me and accusing me of lying on a forum lol.

The reason why I said it that way (aside from meaning it, of course) is because I've given up on Naofumi making the optimal and logical decision.

You can think whatever you want of me, just like I think you love defending low quality things just because you like them and generally misunderstand what you like versus what is good.

EDIT:

You threw the first stone, for the record.

Well, looks like you are not .

And the pointless hate as well... absolutely no fun to discuss shows when it's all about baseless issues/problems such as this.

[KrayZ33]

What are you even talking about man....

I'm not accusing you of lying. I'm accusing you of not standing by your freaking words.

You explained what you would've done.
That is very similar to what Naofumi did.

What's the problem?

When I pointed it out, you got super defensive about it...
I used word for word quotes in the comment above.

If you honestly believe that it is not exactly how that scene played out, you are wrong and should rewatch the episode.
If you honestly think that the only difference between your idea, and his, was not just the delay of using force, you are factually wrong - because you can watch it right now.

He DID talk, he DID fight using full (non-lethal) force, he DID beat him, he DID rescue him.

If you honestly believe I defend this show, you are freaking wrong too.
I started this current's episode talk by saying how fucking bad the animation was and how this show became a light-novel all of a sudden.

But I won't shit on things that aren't wrong and can actually be understood by using common sense, just for the sake of shitting on things so I can talk about how shitty the shit is.
Sorry for not going "full force" (by calling others to beat the dude up) when I'm actually hoping to make up with someone after 1 failed attempt like you would - and think "oh that's the logical thing to do".
Not everyone is as short tempered as you. Doesn't make you "smarter", just an asshole actually.

Could you do it just like you described? Sure.
Could you force it through a bit later? Hell yeah.

That's the difference in thinking we are talking about. The point - where and when exactly - to drop the "mr. nice guy"-act.

[shinta|hikari]

I don't understand how you don't understand.

I explicitly said I would've used words twice, and beat him down by sheer force after that.
Naofumi didn't do that. He deflected 7 attacks before the lightning cage got deployed and got serious.

I would've used Shield Prison and sicced my minions after him right after I deflected the second attack, the charged one that caused my allies' clothes and hair to forcefully flutter backward. <---- This didn't happen in the show.

I did stand by my words.

The problem is you keep trying to misrepresent my words to mean something else.

Like I said, I'm okay if you think I'm an asshole. I believe it is the logical and optimal thing to do. I think it is the smarter thing to do because you minimize risk to yourself and your allies. Negotiation can always be done after you have defeated the other party. In fact, it is usually more favorable for your side to do so (i.e. wars). You are free to think the opposite. In fact, I encourage it.

That's the difference in thinking we are talking about. The point - where and when exactly - to drop the "mr. nice guy"-act.

I was also pretty clear about what I disliked about this. Again, a quote:

I'm so sick and tired of seeing characters try to talk to enemies who are whaling at them.

That did happen in this episode.

[KrayZ33]

I don't understand how you don't understand.

I explicitly said I would've used words twice, and beat him down by sheer force after that.

You explicity said you would've used words ABOUT twice, in my language, that's not "exactly" twice

Naofumi didn't do that. He deflected 7 attacks before the lightning cage got deployed and got serious.

Yes, just like I pointed it out X times by now. He got serious later than you would have

I would've used Shield Prison and sicced my minions after him right after I deflected the second attack, the charged one that caused my allies' clothes and hair to forcefully flutter backward. <---- This didn't happen in the show.

You never said anything about using shield prison. These are not your words. He used shield prison though, to prevent Spear from acting. Not to defeat him - so they can talk. That part is kinda irrelevant, I'll just see it as using "full force"

That did happen in this episode.

Yes, not part of what you wrote before we started the back and forth though.

Here is what you wrote because you somehow ignore what started all this?

If words failed about twice, I would've convinced him using sheer force. If you beat him down until he can't do anything anymore, and then properly explain, and then heal and free them afterwards, they'd at least know you could've killed them but clearly didn't. That'd go against the idea that Naofumi killed the other heroes, making it more likely for anyone, including the Spear dood, to believe him.

And this is *clearly* meant to answer my question about what he was supposed to do.
And this is also *clearly* similar to what he actually did in this episode. The only difference being the number of tries to talk it out.
*ROUGHLY* = ABOUT twice - vs. ~4 times (7 hits)

When I pointed out that this isn't as far off after all, and that it can be boiled down to the amount of pressure you can hold back in before giving up on the "talk strategy" we came to where we are now.
When you say you would've flipped your switch earlier, fine - doesn't make him flip it later wrong and dumb. As mentioned earlier, he can't even use force himself. The fact that you "sic" your companions onto Spear shows how you think about them. That's different from how someone like Naofumi sees them - and he sees them as his children.

I disagree with what you would do, because in my eyes it's *not* the logical thing to do if you are in the situation Naofumi is in. It's basically sounds like a backseat general at work here (just as much as the Orb scene earlier, but this time, it's not even about the different of what was/could've been done, but rather WHEN it was done - since both you and him did in the end do the same thing, that's so pointless because it doesn't even change the outcome). It's ignoring all kind of factors, such as feelings and the urgency of the situation at hand.

You do realize that the very first thing to show that you are not an agressor, is to be not aggressive.
Dropping that in favor of using ultimate force is by nature rather illogical and should be used as a last resort and not as an immediate response.

End of my point.

[shinta|hikari]

You truly misunderstand. I didn't meant it that way. I wasn't trying to say what Naofumi would/should do, as I have given up on him as a character. I apologize if you got confused by that. I only meant to express my thoughts about the best way to approach the situation.

I truly meant that I would've counterattacked with sheer force (this is key, nothing half-assed) after about 2 convincing attempts. Indeed, that is not exactly 2, but 7 is definitely not acceptable. Based on my personality, it could've been one try, to be honest.

I also wouldn't group attacks. Each attack can hurt or kill me, after all.

I'm also not trying to convince you to think my way is correct. I frankly don't care. What I do object to is you saying I didn't stand by my words and imply I changed my stance midway. I have no reason to do that, just like I have no reason to lie.

[Kraco]

I've a feeling if it had been you, Shinta, and not Naofumi, the orbital ion cannon strike would have killed or at least maimed you. This is because patience and perseverance are connected.

[KrayZ33]

You truly misunderstand. I didn't meant it that way. I wasn't trying to say what Naofumi would/should do, as I have given up on him as a character. I apologize if you got confused by that. I only meant to express my thoughts about the best way to approach the situation.

I truly meant that I would've counterattacked with sheer force (this is key, nothing half-assed) after about 2 convincing attempts. Indeed, that is not exactly 2, but 7 is definitely not acceptable. Based on my personality, it could've been one try, to be honest.

I also wouldn't group attacks. Each attack can hurt or kill me, after all.

I'm also not trying to convince you to think my way is correct. I frankly don't care. What I do object to is you saying I didn't stand by my words and imply I changed my stance midway. I have no reason to do that, just like I have no reason to lie.

I see - I'm sorry.

We friends again until next time?

[shinta|hikari]

@Kraco - True, but I didn't know an orbital cannon strike would happen, so I can't make a decision factoring that.

Naofumi just got lucky.

@Krayz - I don't think there will be a next time.

[KrayZ33]

@Krayz - I don't think there will be a next time.

I have no freaking idea how to understand that and it scares me. .... just in case I'm locking my doors.

[shinta|hikari]

LOL, sorry, I didn't mean it that way.

I just think I've gotten a good understanding of how you think, making it unlikely for us to spark another thread extender like this.

[MFauli]

I'm away for a couple hours and you crazy cats start brawling each other, SHEESH! 🐧💁

[shinta|hikari]

Sad you didn't get to join in?