Rape and morality in popular media

[MFauli]

Moderator Note: This post originally stemmed from a rape scene in a recent anime episode, where a villain attempted to rape some girls, and the main character proceeded to chop the rapist's arms off.

The first two pages of this general discussion thread were moved from that anime thread. This new thread is dedicated to discussing rape and its morality in popular media.

Spoilers and mention to other series may lie ahead.

-Buff.

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So ... did they just go back to back without telling anyone about what happened?! What a dumb episode.

And choosing rape as the utmost evil occurrence once again is dumb and tired. You know what's more evil than rape? Hacking off someone's both arms.

[DarthEnderX]

How the fuck did I know the first person to comment on this season at all would be MFauli giving rape scene notes.

You know what's more evil than rape? Hacking off someone's both arms.

Fucking no. Raping for lulz is not less evil than cutting off someone's arms to stop them from assaulting someone.

[MFauli]

How the fuck did I know the first person to comment on this season at all would be MFauli giving rape scene notes.

Fucking no. Raping for lulz is not less evil than cutting off someone's arms to stop them from assaulting someone.

Lol, you could have commented on any of the episodes before. I had to search this thread in depths of gotwoot!

And fuck no, disagree. Just ask yourself: would you rather be raped or have your arms cut off? Easy decision.

It was a bad episode anyway.

[David75]

Sorry but it's not how victims live it.
And it's not a choice either.

[KrayZ33]

And fuck no, disagree. Just ask yourself: would you rather be raped or have your arms cut off? Easy decision.

what......?

You are such a delusional human being, it's almost like you'd enjoy raping/being raped.

[MFauli]

what......?

You are such a delusional human being, it's almost like you'd enjoy raping/being raped.

As opposed to you enjoying having your arms cut off? Ok ...

[KrayZ33]

As opposed to you enjoying having your arms cut off? Ok ...

I enjoy neither of these two things, how about that.
And it'd be more than just presumptuous of me to guess which of the two things is more horrible.

The way you belittle rape is seriously scary, this must be the "rape culture" these crazy chicks always talk about.... never thought that they have a point.

[MFauli]

I enjoy neither of these two things, how about that.
And it'd be more than just presumptuous of me to guess which of the two things is more horrible.

The way you belittle rape is seriously scary, this must be the "rape culture" these crazy chicks always talk about.... never thought that they have a point.

I'm "belittling" rape if only so because it's bs how it happens so rarely in media and when it happens, everyone is sooo shocked. Meanwhile murder ... nobody gives a shit. That just clashes with my moral compass where murder is infinitely worse than rape, for obvious reasons.

[Buffalobiian]

@MFauli: What's worse than murder?

[DarthEnderX]

Lol, you could have commented on any of the episodes before. I had to search this thread in depths of gotwoot!

I didn't actually have anything to comment about. I just watched the episode, noticed what happened, and then when I came here to do my usual rounds, I noticed the SAO thread had been bumped for the first time of the season and I immediately thought, "Fucking MFauli has shit to say about that rape scene, I just know it."

And fuck no, disagree. Just ask yourself: would you rather be raped or have your arms cut off? Easy decision.

So basically, your saying that the executioner that executes a mass murder is a more evil person than someone that kicks babies. Because killing is worse than kicking?

I get what you're saying, I'd personally rather be raped than murdered. But intent and deservedness counts.

Kirito is not evil for attempting to stop an assault, then maiming the assailant in self-defense when the assailant tries to kill him.

The guys raping someone out of pure spite are absolutely being evil.

it's almost like you'd enjoy raping/being raped.

Almost...

[shinta|hikari]

I actually don't understand why Mfauli is complaining. He wants more rape in media, and when he gets it, he doesn't like it because it is portrayed as evil. I'm guessing he wants a justified rape scene.

[MFauli]

@shinta:

Wasn't the topic, but since you start it: Yes, I'd like to see a different portrayal of rape in anime. It's always done in a way that makes the perpetrator look like a complete maniac, drawing weird grimasses, squeaky voice, and mostly poor decision making that ultimately result in his downfall.

When we have murder stories, the perpetrators often are successful and get away with it (until the very end when they're punished after all). But rapists? Always dumb, instantly punished, and not even being 'successful'. What I want is nuance and variety.

One of my actual biggest wishes for a complex, mature story is that a former rapist joins the heroes' party, fighting for the good himself. Anime is full of mass murderers that get easily accepted by the good guys after they make the switch - let's do the same for a rapist. It's a much lesser crime, but it also is so unprecedented that it'd make for a really fresh, interesting setup.

And now I'll be waiting for Kray to misinterpret the above into ''MFauli likes rapw" -_-

@MFauli: What's worse than murder?

Nothing?

[shinta|hikari]

Unending or prolonged torture is definitely worse than murder. If you don't agree, please test it.

Why the focus on rape? Isn't it just one of innumerable "taboo" plot devices in stories, a lot of which don't get that much screen time (cannibalism, incest, pedophilia, etc)?

[Buffalobiian]

@shinta:

Wasn't the topic, but since you start it: Yes, I'd like to see a different portrayal of rape in anime. It's always done in a way that makes the perpetrator look like a complete maniac, drawing weird grimasses, squeaky voice, and mostly poor decision making that ultimately result in his downfall.

When we have murder stories, the perpetrators often are successful and get away with it (until the very end when they're punished after all). But rapists? Always dumb, instantly punished, and not even being 'successful'. What I want is nuance and variety.

One of my actual biggest wishes for a complex, mature story is that a former rapist joins the heroes' party, fighting for the good himself. Anime is full of mass murderers that get easily accepted by the good guys after they make the switch - let's do the same for a rapist. It's a much lesser crime, but it also is so unprecedented that it'd make for a really fresh, interesting setup.

And now I'll be waiting for Kray to misinterpret the above into ''MFauli likes rapw" -_-



Nothing?

Interesting. From whose perspective are you seeing this from?

[KrayZ33]

One of my actual biggest wishes for a complex, mature story is that a former rapist joins the heroes' party, fighting for the good himself.

But who, other than you, wants to see that?
A rapist is someone nearly no one can get behind, except for some crazed individuals.

You can kill a person on accident, on impulse, or even out of revenge, yet I still have to see a true maniacal mass murderer join a hero. Warriors are not murderers, it's their "job".

The process of rape lasts for several minutes.. it's not a single action. It's not like you can say "the feelings got the better of me at this moment". There is hardly any reason to include a rapist in any story whatsoever as the "good guy", because he certainly is not a good guy... no matter how "sorry" he is.

[shinta|hikari]

To be fair, I've read a few VNs where a rapist eventually becomes a good guy, and is the protagonist (i.e. Akatsuki no Goei).

There's also a ton of rape scenes in shoujo mangas where the male love interests basically molest and then proceed to rape the protagonist, who repeatedly says no and fights back to no avail, but they eventually fall in love and become a couple, so it's all good. Maybe this is more up your alley, Mfauli, and yes, this is mainstream stuff (non-hentai), just not too popular in the west because of SJWs (Snowflake Judgmental Westerners).

[MFauli]

Unending or prolonged torture is definitely worse than murder. If you don't agree, please test it.

Why the focus on rape? Isn't it just one of innumerable "taboo" plot devices in stories, a lot of which don't get that much screen time (cannibalism, incest, pedophilia, etc)?

All of those other taboos actually happen on the regular and without anyone being shocked. Incest is super common. Lolicon themes are, too. And cannibalism, well, we all just saw Slime. It's only rape that causes an outrage, which I find endlessly hypocritical.

Also regarding torture: I'd agree that at some point torture becomes worse than death. See the shit that was done to the heroes of Ajin and Tokyo Ghoul. But 'forced sex' definitely is far from that.

[shinta|hikari]

Like I said, there's a lot of mainstream content from Japan, China, and Korea that feature rape and sexual assault where the perpetrator is either absolved or even rewarded. They just don't get proliferated in the west.

People don't get outraged over it either. The target audience certainly enjoy it.

[MFauli]

But who, other than you, wants to see that?
A rapist is someone nearly no one can get behind, except for some crazed individuals.

You can kill a person on accident, on impulse, or even out of revenge, yet I still have to see a true maniacal mass murderer join a hero. Warriors are not murderers, it's their "job".

The process of rape lasts for several minutes.. it's not a single action. It's not like you can say "the feelings got the better of me at this moment". There is hardly any reason to include a rapist in any story whatsoever as the "good guy", because he certainly is not a good guy... no matter how "sorry" he is.

Go no further than Dragon Ball. Vegeta murdered countless innocent people. But at some point he decides to fight Freezer and all is forgiven? Fuck this bs!

Happens in most shounen anime.

But rape? That's REALLY evil and unforgivable :/ sigh

Btw you absolutely can say 'feelings got the better of me'. Most rape isn't premeditated, it happens spontaneously. Even the most heinous kind of rape shouldn't cause a character to be permanent evil. I'm no longer writing on the story, so I can tell you ablut what I had in mind: Carlyle, a 43 yo guy, convicted rapist, out of prison, raped a girl 15 years ago out of sheer lust. Has come to terms with it, fully realizes he did something very wrong. Why should he not be able to go on as a good person? Shitting on someone like that is just irrational revenge bs.

But that's not happening. Meanwhile, mass murderers get to turn around at any given point and be called hero. :/

Interesting. From whose perspective are you seeing this from?

Not sure what you mean, but whatever:

From the perspective of someone who cares about moral justice , where rape shouldn't be punished worse than murder.
And also empathically from the perspective of a fictional rapist who wants to redeem himself and do good ... but isn't given the chance.

I find that more interesting than the usual shit.

Like I said, there's a lot of mainstream content from Japan, China, and Korea that feature rape and sexual assault where the perpetrator is either absolved or even rewarded. They just don't get proliferated in the west.

People don't get outraged over it either. The target audience certainly enjoy it.

Can you recommend a good manga? Ideally where the hero is a rapist or that's story focuses on that?

[shinta|hikari]

I don't really read rape stories so I can't recommend any, but there is a rape tag in mangaupdates and novelupdates. A lot of wuxia has men raping women who then fall in love with them.

Most shoujo manga stories feature a female protagonist, who are also the victims of the rape, but they eventually like it. That doesn't fit what you want though.

The idea I was trying to present is that rape isn't as censored or rare as you think, and there are a lot of stories where rapists are redeemed or even praised (because the girl deserved it kind of thing).