Classroom of the Elite: Youkoso Jitsuryoku Shijou Shugi no Kyoushitsu e

[KrayZ33]

This show is about students that live on a insular highschool excluded from pretty much all/most contacts on the outside.
They recieve money (points) from this school and can buy pretty much everything they want from the school's own facilities.
I won't go much further into whether and how they have to earn those points, because it's pretty well explained in the first episode in this show.


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The premise sounds really promising and the first episode was entertaining to watch.

MC is somewhat of a "different version" of Hachiman - even though this wouldn't be fair to 8man.
Anyway, he's like a dead fish that can't be bothered to show interest in anything.
Yet he was clever enough to not spend his money unnecessarily.

The most interesting information in the first episode was the part at the end when the teacher revelead how *they* are able to recive points.
And I believe it's much more interesting that way, compared to the alternative.

[Shadow Skill]

I saw it the other day and was amazed by the first episode. I just hope the future episodes build on this premise. Sounds like the MC and the girl beside him are the only two whom are responsible.

[David75]

But it's highly probable that their performances are affected/linked by/to the rest of the classroom. So they have quite a heavy burden to shoulder...

[KrayZ33]

Exactly, that's what I meant with my vague bolded text that probably no one understood.
That's why I believe spoiler tags can be helpful sometimes

I'm somewhat excited how this will turn out. They are basically forced to work together and keep an eye on each other - collective punishement awaits.

[Ryllharu]

So the upper classes just get money on an individual performance basis, but only Class D is stuck working collectively? That nearly breaks suspension of disbelief right then and there.

It has to work that way, obviously, because otherwise there wouldn't be any money to spend on Class D members humiliating themselves for points after they run out of them.

I get that this is some Machiavellian shit to produce the most elite students possible, but the premise sort of breaks apart right from the start.

[David75]

I guess your score is linked to the score of your class with ratios. But when the score is too low, even good individuals sink with everyone.

[KrayZ33]

So the upper classes just get money on an individual performance basis, but only Class D is stuck working collectively? That nearly breaks suspension of disbelief right then and there.

It has to work that way, obviously, because otherwise there wouldn't be any money to spend on Class D members humiliating themselves for points after they run out of them.

I get that this is some Machiavellian shit to produce the most elite students possible, but the premise sort of breaks apart right from the start.

When did they say that the point reward system works differntly for Class D?

They never mentioned anything like that as far as I can tell and I'm assuming it's the same for every class.

[Ryllharu]

It has to.

Either classes A through C are told exactly how the system works up front where Class D was kept in the dark, or they're treated differently, and not collectively evaluated.

Class D is obviously set up as the have-nots, based on the remarks of the upper classmen to the hothead guy. They knew that they were screwed from the start. May I remind you, that was the first day. For all those three knew, Class D could have behaved themselves the entire month from thereon. But they knew right away, taunting the guy, that they were "defective losers."

There's no way that the other three classes behaved themselves the whole time in order to still be rewarded, while Class D does not. They gave every student 100,000 yen for the month. That's a lot of temptation. Other girls were shopping, other boys were fooling around.

They had to have either been told upfront to expect Class D to come begging, or they're not graded the same way.

If you're telling me that all four classes are collectively graded, and in the first month, none of them were informed, but only Class D screws up, there's goes suspension of disbelief and this series is done.

[KrayZ33]

If you're telling me that all four classes are collectively graded, and in the first month, none of them were informed, but only Class D screws up, there's goes suspension of disbelief and this series is done.

That's different from what you said earlier.

The synopsis of "myanimelist.net" explains what's up with Class D. However, I believe you can find it out yourself right now if you consider the type of students in Class D and the school's reputation (or just wait for episode 2).

[Ryllharu]

That's not different from what I said earlier at all (edit: especially when you can clearly see that you changed the emphasis when you quoted me). That's where I'm saying that it is so improbable that only Class D would get punished, if all four classes were given the same information and treated the same way. Clearly, they were not.

And they have to be the only group punished, because the little Machiavellian economy they have going can't work if all the first year classes are broke. There's no way that everyone in Classes B and C perform so perfectly, spent so little, were on their best behavior, such that none of them got punished the same way.

It's one or the other. Either the other three classes given different information or are graded differently, or the entire premise fails to accomplish suspension of disbelief.

And that description doesn't say shit. It's the same one everywhere.

[KrayZ33]

???

So the upper classes just get money on an individual performance basis, but only Class D is stuck working collectively? That nearly breaks suspension of disbelief right then and there.

You said that only class D is punished collectively - that hasn't been said.


and after that, you said that Class D is the only class that wasn't involved in a scheme/were the only ones not given information.
That's different from your earlier post where you suggested that for some odd reason (which is possible, but has to be mentioned first. Right now, there is nothing pointing in that direction) *only* class D is graded collectively


On top of that, we don't even know how the other classes were doing.

And they have to be the only group punished, because the little Machiavellian economy they have going can't work if all the first year classes are broke.

That's also probably not how it works given the information we have. Why would it not work btw?
The school is the one giving the money after all and the kids can only spend it on school grounds.
If they can get a payout at the end of their school life, then it's actually better for the school if all the classes are broke.
If they can't get a payout - it doesn't make much of a difference either. Yet, Class D might be less lucrative than the other classes because they actually spent their credits on products they can take home with them...
which means the school wouldn't want to have a class that keeps spending all it's money, which means they would've told them not to spend it - if that's important.

So, now they are missing 100.000 credits, considering that MC only had to spend 20k to get around, nothing is stopping them to actually learn now. The question is whether they are actually able to meet the schools standards. After all this school is supposed to train the elite of the elite... and class D is full of idiots.
Which leads me to the Synopsis:
"Ayanokouji Kiyotaka is a student of D-class, which is where the school dumps its "inferior" students in order to ridicule them."

[Ryllharu]

Which is dumb in principle. Look, I'm not saying this series doesn't have promise, it does. I sincerely hope it doesn't waste the opportunities it built for itself.

- Horikita clearly knew. Her actions, combined with Ayanokouji's unease at the amount they gave them caused him to conserve his funds. I'm guessing her shitty attitude combined with a bad exam (or transposed bubbles or something) put her in Class D.
- Ayanokouji isn't a moron, isn't a miraculously lucky loser, but he's also not a "kukuku, just as I planned" secret ubermensch that plague light novels. He's observant, but not in a dick way, and he's not some woe-is-me-martyr like Hachiman.
- Kushida, hopefully, is actually a manipulative planner, and not some innocently moronic idealist, and there's been some evidence so far of that being the case. She tries to guilt others on a bus into giving up a seat for way longer than she should have, making her look selfless and kind to the non-cynics. Then she gives puppy eyes and wiggles her breasts in front of Ayanokouji to get him to agree to help her try and befriend Horikita for no reason, and she has gone out of her way to befriend people in other classes, so she probably won't suffer too badly from the May 1st punishment. She'll have people who can pity her.

I suspect we'll be seeing the pretty/fashionable girls of Class D subjecting themselves to "dates" for complimentary meals, and using the points they trade their dignity for on essentials, clothes, and makeup to keep that train going.


But there is a gaping plothole in terms of the collective punishment Class D is subjected to, and it has to disproportionately be them for it to work. The school is trying to develop elites students for business and politics. There's no switching classes. So, they've guaranteed their "promising" students have a batch of "inferiors" to order around, pay pittances or "welfare" to, or simply use as servants or whores hostesses.
The upper classmen harassing the delinquent guy show that they expect the Class D students to end up groveling in front of them in the near future, begging them for points to buy essentials. And if Class D students manage to become somewhat self-sufficient? Well, they clearly deserved it, had the foresight and planning, or drive to succeed despite adversity. That must make them elites too.

But those points spent on using Class D students have to come from somewhere. The majority of Class D kids are broke now. Let's assume that they're arranged by grades during exams or interviews or something stupid like that, and Class A kids are probably super diligent and responsible, or already have an elitist/cultured air about them. We saw the girl from Class B, who is definitely more refined than the pretty girls from Class D. So, Class A probably got another 100,000 points, Class B got, say, 75,000, and Class C got enough between being self-sufficient, so they can "shape up" without resorting to begging, or got enough to spend on a few nice things.

This is where the plot hole is: 1) How did they know that, or 2) If they didn't know that, how did they get away with it?

I find it very hard to believe that all three other classes, when combined with their grades, had no issues like Class D did by the end of the month. And it is a collective punishment (for Class D), because Ayanokouji and Horikita behaved themselves the whole time. He got nothing and she knew from the start that they'd be getting nothing that first month and planned ahead.

Absences and tardies are specifically counted out. That's fair. Class D are the fuckups if we're to believe the premise. But cellphone use is the other one with specific counts. There's no way everyone in the other classes didn't do the same, especially if they noticed Class D, or anyone else getting away with it. I'll believe that Class A has the best behaved students. But Class C? No way. These are normal Japanese high schoolers, not royalty or coming from families of social elites like in the fantasy shows. They intermingle. The Class D kids will invariably boast about how they are getting away with it.

Even if they didn't misbehave, there would still be students that spent it all. Points aren't just for playing around, also they're for essentials and food. A girl seeing how much she had toward the end of the month might buy jewelry, clothing, or expensive care products, a guy might splurge on the video games.

They were either warned ahead of time, or aren't graded collectively. It simply is not believable that only Class D manages to completely bring their allowance below self-sustainability without prior knowledge of the system.

Edit: I will concede that this is Japan, where the nail sticking out gets hammered down. A misbehaving student in an upper class who brought the average payout down will get brought to heel, but the little system they set up doesn't work if Class A is the only one with points at the end of the first month. Class D is supposed to be the only fuckup class, right?

Something doesn't add up with the premise for the system to work as the series clearly intends it to. After the second month, now that everyone is aware? Sure. But Class D wouldn't have any issues catching up either, were that the case. They'd have a bad month, and shape up, and collectively study together, etc. But they're intended to be the servitors to the "true" elites.

[KrayZ33]

Even if they didn't misbehave, there would still be students that spent it all. Points aren't just for playing around, also they're for essentials and food. A girl seeing how much she had toward the end of the month might buy jewelry, clothing, or expensive care products, a guy might splurge on the video games.

If they didn't misbehave, it doesn't matter if they spend it all, they get another 100k - that's the point. As long as you do your "job" in school, you are living the good live.


Class D is full of narcissistic, marvelistic and psychopathic kids (this is clear from their introductions alone). The Synopsis tells us that they are gathered in Class D on purpose.

So it's not that unlikely that the other classes are actually filled with somewhat responsible children or at least children who understand that they are judged by their merit after being told so multiple times (including the speech from their representative)

Edit: I will concede that this is Japan, where the nail sticking out gets hammered down. A misbehaving student in an upper class who brought the average payout down will get brought to heel, but the little system they set up doesn't work if Class A is the only one with points at the end of the first month. Class D is supposed to be the only fuckup class, right?

Why not? It would even work when no first year got any money, because they can look at their seniors which do have money. On top of that 2-D and 3-D will also be filled with garbage, unless you can rank up.

We can observe a similar development in schools in real life. Just compare a class with 2/30 bad apples with a class that has 28/30 bad apples

The 2/30 are likely to adapt - the 28/30 will remain the same (unless there are threatened to lose/ by something they actually care about) and the 2/30 "normal people" in the second class will actually change to the 28/30 in most cases.

edit: Now with a... less racist example.
edit2: The thing about this whole "suprise" is that it only works for 1 month anyway, they can probably get by using free products in the shops for now. So it's not like they have to sell their bodies or whatever. Who knows, maybe even the school rulebook has it written down, but no one in their class actually bothered to read it.
But now they know, and it's a question about whether they are able to change and considering that this school boasts with a 100% employment rate etc., we can assume that they will change... or at least develop traits that will help them getting a job.

[Ryllharu]

If they didn't misbehave, it doesn't matter if they spend it all, they get another 100k - that's the point. As long as you do your "job" in school, you are living the good live.

This school is an incubator for the elite. I imagine the grades reflect highly on the allowance they get, as much as their behavior. Probably a lot more, which keeps the system working as "intended," and gets around your correct observation that it would only be a real issue for the first month.

Performance and merit. Or again, beating down the student struggling with math or whatever, or helping them so the class as a whole doesn't suffer...unless they're graded individually, unlike Class D. But this school isn't a "help everyone succeed!" school. It's a performance and merit based system meant to produce the "best of the elite." The future leaders of Japan that can support the entire nation in the future. You can't transfer classes, so...the other classes were either pre-screened, or they expect drop outs and transfers for those that can't keep up.

Why not? It would even work when no first year got any money, because they can look at their seniors which do have money. On top of that 2-D and 3-D will also be filled with garbage, unless you can rank up.

And why, exactly, would upper classmen help them? Again, you're in the wrong mindset. This isn't a collective school that means to help everyone succeed. It's a meritocracy where the best of the best of the best, are meant to come out of. They have no reason to help their lessers except out of charity.

And why would they spend money on Class 1-A through 1-C, when they can spend their money on the broken, beaten down, affordable students of 2-D and 3-D respectively?

A pity payment to a down on their luck elite younger peer doesn't get an upperclassmen anything. They have a tough month according to your interpretation, and are fine thereafter. Presumably, they still have their pride, or they don't really deserve it, since they're not really elite if they can't manage their finances, are they? Maybe a favor, maybe some good will, but it's a gamble if the "investment" will ever be worth it down the road.

However, a payment for services rendered by an increasingly desperate group of peers (1-D, 2-D and 3-D) does pay itself off, immediately. A student with nothing in their account, and really in need of a new set of clothes...or as mentioned in the series already, underwear? It's a reverse-bidding war. How much in the way of services or entertainment can you get out of a desperate student?

Now, obviously, the series has already brought up the way out of this trap. The splash screen says, "There is nothing, within the realm of reason, that cannot be bought on the campus by using points."

So for example, earn enough points back, and secretly buy one of the stores. Like that coffee shop. Or buy the cafeteria. Then all the students are paying you points out of the store's profit. Then buy another. And another. Soon, the system allows for some real Eden of the East shit going on.

Unless the author completely squanders the opportunities they wrote themselves...which is very much possible.


edit:
And seriously, the episode begins with a Nietzsche quote. I think we can expect what this series intends with the environment of the school.

[KrayZ33]

And why, exactly, would upper classmen help them? Again, you're in the wrong mindset. This isn't a collective school that means to help everyone succeed. It's a meritocracy where the best of the best of the best, are meant to come out of. They have no reason to help their lessers except out of charity.

But they don't need the upper classmen to help them physically, they only need them to see how they can be and what they can achieve when they change themselves/go with the system. This works the other way around too

And why would they spend money on Class 1-A through 1-C, when they can spend their money on the broken, beaten down, affordable students of 2-D and 3-D respectively?

A pity payment to a down on their luck elite younger peer doesn't get an upperclassmen anything. They have a tough month according to your interpretation, and are fine thereafter. Presumably, they still have their pride, or they don't really deserve it, since they're not really elite if they can't manage their finances, are they? Maybe a favor, maybe some good will, but it's a gamble if the "investment" will ever be worth it down the road.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here. The way I read it, it seems like you are confused about how everyone gets their credits right now.
Why are you assuming class D "serves" or something? I think we are talking about different things here.

If Class D behaves correctly, they get money from the school/goverment,
If they don't behave they can get something from their upper classmen / or any class that didn't fail by begging or selling themselves, sure. But it's not like they have to spent money on them.

What I was saying is that even if 1-A to 1-D don't get any money in the first month, the system would still work because obviously the upper classes know how things roll and since they have money, it means the school isn't lying about giving people money based on how they perform.
Which means they have to get their shit together and join the money club.

So I don't understand why you are saying the system wouldn't work if only Class A managed to get money.
The reason why Class D is hell is because it's unlikely that they'll get their shit together in the first place.

And why, exactly, would upper classmen help them? Again, you're in the wrong mindset. This isn't a collective school that means to help everyone succeed. It's a meritocracy where the best of the best of the best, are meant to come out of. They have no reason to help their lessers except out of charity.

Well, I don't really have that mindset. At the same time however, this school has a 100% success rate, which suggest that the system works for everyone, even for the failures in class D.

[Ryllharu]

Seriously, read the episode title for this episode, and the next shown in the preview, and notice that the OP has a ton of philosophical quotes in it. I'm really surprised you somehow think there will be any goodwill at this school.

But they don't need the upper classmen to help them physically, they only need them to see how they can be and what they can achieve when they change themselves/go with the system. This works the other way around too

You're not answering the question. Why would they help Class 1-A through 1-C, even IF they found themselves in the same predicament as 1-D of having no money in May? They won't. Upperclassmen don't care about being an example of success. Class D is the example of what happens when you fail, and is the deterrent. You fail and go hungry, or you don't, or you take advantage of those who are hungry.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here. The way I read it, it seems like you are confused about how everyone gets their credits right now.
Why are you assuming class D "serves" or something? I think we are talking about different things here.

If Class D behaves correctly, they get money from the school/goverment,
If they don't behave they can get something from their upper classmen / or any class that didn't fail by begging or selling themselves, sure. But it's not like they have to spent money on them.
...
So I don't understand why you are saying the system wouldn't work if only Class A managed to get money.
The reason why Class D is hell is because it's unlikely that they'll get their shit together in the first place.

The system is designed so the Class D's fail, probably constantly. They're not going to get their shit together, they're not going to get paid again by the school. But other students can pay them. And those students have to have points to pay.

And that's where the problem is, if all the First Years have no money. That there might not be capital to spread around. Class D is going to go through that "real hell" that the upper classmen hinted at. The upper classmen aren't going to care. They have their own Class D's that are likely to be cheaper to spend money on entertaining them, or doing their laundry, or acting as their gophers, or acting as a secretary, or any number of other things. They've probably already given up after a year of this.

Class D will serve because they want to eat. They want better than budget items. But they can't get their classes to succeed to the point that they get paid. They're the poor students, the misbehaving, the social outcasts. They're set up to fail, to give those that succeed someone to use.

Well, I don't really have that mindset. At the same time however, this school has a 100% success rate, which suggest that the system works for everyone, even for the failures in class D.

It doesn't say they all get into college. It says they get them into college...or find them a job. It also doesn't say it's a good one. They just don't end up as NEETs.

[Ryllharu]

Btw, stealing this from another forum:

Their current balances show up in the cast credits.

Someone translated part of the current balance of the students (shown during the ending probably)

Ayanokouji, Kiyotaka(MC) 82235
Horikita, Suzune(main heroine) 91887
Kushida, Kikyou(oppai girl) 54705
Sudou, Ken 3115
Ike, Kanji 42
Yamauchi, Haruki 28
Hirata, Yousuke(class leader) 21170
Kouenji, Rokusuke 6284
Karuizawa, Kei 2389
Satou, Maya 6850

[KrayZ33]

Seriously, read the episode title for this episode, and the next shown in the preview, and notice that the OP has a ton of philosophical quotes in it. I'm really surprised you somehow think there will be any goodwill at this school.

You're not answering the question. Why would they help Class 1-A through 1-C, even IF they found themselves in the same predicament as 1-D of having no money in May? They won't. Upperclassmen don't care about being an example of success. Class D is the example of what happens when you fail, and is the deterrent. You fail and go hungry, or you don't, or you take advantage of those who are hungry.

I'm not saying there is any goodwill, I'm also not saying they will "help".
I'm saying that they exist, which is enough for the failures to see how it's done or rather that it's possible to live the good live.

Which is why after 1 month, class A to C are probably able to earn enough, because they aren't psychopaths (because all/most of them are in class D)

Class D will serve because they want to eat. They want better than budget items. But they can't get their classes to succeed to the point that they get paid. They're the poor students, the misbehaving, the social outcasts. They're set up to fail, to give those that succeed someone to use.

Which is exactly what I'm saying, the system isn't any different for them (the reward system), it's just that they are failures and unlikely to succeed.



Just because Class A - C have money doesn't mean D will get any from them btw. Yeah you can humiliate them for a little for a few bucks, but after a while, even the most sadistic individual will lose interest. Even if/or especially when they start selling their bodies to multiple people (which I assume will never happen because this is goverment controlled, but that would be interesting).


edit: Interesting bit about the credits, there is someone else with 68k - probably that "know it all" smiling guy?
There are also some others that show up after the first ~15 people or so after a small gap.

one says 一之瀬 帆波 which I google kanji-ed from Ichinose the only name we (I?) know from Class B.
She is listed and it says "secret".
Which could mean the one after her is also from class B with 15k

I'm also interested in Kei Karuizawa, which is listed as a main character on myanimelist and looks like the type of girl who'd do certain things for money. (my heavy investment in doujinshi research of a certain kind tells me that)

[Munsu]

Just watched the first episode and thought it was quite good.

I'll also say, there's A LOT of jumping into conclusions here... man what an elaborate way to theorize everything. Not saying you guys may be wrong or not, but wow...

[Munsu]

Episode 2 came out a few days ago.

I thought it was a step down overall from the first episode, though we get a bit more insight on how the point system works and what not and of course learn a bit more about our main characters.

The title of the episode fooled me though, I was certain it was going to refer to the big titted chick, seemed it wasn't the case this time around. But I still think she's hiding something and has ulterior motives.