Alderamin on the Sky

[shinta|hikari]

Changing direction like that requires a slanted contact point (i.e. parrying). If the contact is perpendicular (like in this case), the force pushes the sword the opposite direction, causing it to bounce back, not miraculously slide upward. Moreover, she wasn't just swinging the sword horizontally. Her entire body was swinging horizontally. Wrist power is irrelevant when considering the momentum involved.

Why does this matter compared to all the unscientific (but cool) shit the chick did in the fight? Because Yatori actually tried to beat the style by trying to stop the girl's momentum by stabbing her sword in the ground. That means it was a key point in the fight. Yet Yatori's very scientific countermeasure was beaten by hocus pocus.

Shounen fight moments can be divided into two categories. One is the flash, and the other is the turning point. Flash is just mainly cool stuff we mindlessly watch without considering the consequences because there's usually none related to the outcome. The turning points, however, need to make sense to make a fight result convincing. This was one of them.

How do they fix it? Have the girl kick off the ground the moment (or right before) she makes contact with Yatori's sword. That changes her direction at the time of impact, allowing her to suddenly divert her force upward with the help of Yatori's sword. Almost impossible because of timing? Yes. Unscientific (I'm using this word intentionally btw), no.

As for the bullet dodge, sure, Yatori moved before the bullet was shot. But that in itself requires her to predict that there was a gun about to shoot from the girl's back. Predicting that with the info she had is very hard to believe, no matter how careful she is. Even the enemy was shocked as to how she made that guess.

How to fix this? Add one more clue, like Yatori getting a glimpse of the straps on the chick's body during the fight. This is still amazing for Yatori because taking note of such a small thing in the middle of a duel requires superb observational skills. Yet, it tips her off that there's something attached to the chick's body. Add that to the other clues, and the final dodge makes more sense.

Here's the funny bit. Since you can't dodge bullets, there was no point in baiting Yatori. The chick could've just shot her from the start of the fight. Just slash, turn around, and shoot. The end. So... why didn't she? It's not like Yatori was jumping all over the place. The chick had dozens of moments she could've shot Yatori dead. Her back was turned to Yatori so many times in that fight. That hidden gun was that cheap.

The only reason I could think of is that the code word for shooting the gun is "You fell for it." I'm guessing the spirit can't see anything and needs the chick to tell her when to shoot. This sort of requires Yatori to be in a predictable and constant position before firing.

In that case, why the hell would you use that sentence as the code word..? That's like telling the enemy, "I'm about to use my super secret Noble Phantasm! Prepare yourself!"

[Buffalobiian]

It's too hard to aim at someone while spinning. It's easier to hit them when they're committed to charging straight at your back.

[shinta|hikari]

Harder than defying the laws of motion to change direction mid-spin? I think not.

Kidding aside, she could just, uh, stop spinning for a moment? Just slash, turn your back, and shoot. If the enemy has no idea about the gun, they won't suddenly dodge with your back turned to them. They will think, "Oh chance!"

[Kraco]

Considering they are pitiful guerrillas fighting agaist a whole empire, that back cannon was probably the epitome of their original weaponry. Nanaku would have most likely been counting on assassinating the lieutenant general with her sword and escaping promptly. Now she had to expose that secret weapon to a whole bunch of spectators.

That's of course but a single theory explaining why she waited so long to use it. Other than that, however, it seems to me she's an immature person very proud of her skills (which explains why the skills are so flashy), so she was probably also wanting to prove she can best any soldier of the empire.

[shinta|hikari]

The latter explanation you gave makes sense. It's just pathetic to see leaders/elite fighters acting all immature like that. If you can kill someone, you do it immediately. The delayed trump card concept is an anime trope I'm so sick of. So is the announced surprise attack trope.

Why can't they get rid of these? Do people even like them as story elements? It's like they are there just because of tradition.

[KrayZ33]

Changing direction like that requires a slanted contact point (i.e. parrying). If the contact is perpendicular (like in this case), the force pushes the sword the opposite direction, causing it to bounce back, not miraculously slide upward. Moreover, she wasn't just swinging the sword horizontally. Her entire body was swinging horizontally. Wrist power is irrelevant when considering the momentum involved.

Not sure why you think the clash between the sword made her change directions.

She used the sword in the ground (her own, not Yatori's) and the momentum of the horizontal swing to get vertical height, which is something guys do in parkour all the time... a lot less extreme of course.

Which is why I said that her wrist is going to hurt, considering that she had to level all that force and mass with her hand alone.

Yatori tried to stop her horizontal movement, but the girl wasn't commited to it and didn't put as much force into it as she suspected, which is why the swords slide off of each, and not clash.
Not to mention that it wouldn't have done anything to the swing anyway, even if they clashed. At best, it would've made her lose balance or the sword in her hand, but that's it...she wouldn't have lost any speed (worth mentioning) whatsoever, but it is pretty much the only way to parry/block a swing like that.

[shinta|hikari]

Not to mention that it wouldn't have done anything to the swing anyway, even if they clashed. At best, it would've made her lose balance or the sword in her hand, but that's it...she wouldn't have lost any speed (worth mentioning) whatsoever, but it is pretty much the only way to parry/block a swing like that.

Yatori, a swordmaster, seems to think otherwise. She actually said "Stop already!" when she stabbed her sword into the ground. Clearly she intended to stop the chick's rotation with that move.

So what you're saying is that she used her other hand (the one we didn't see) to push off the ground (pretty much what I suggested in my earlier post about kicking off) to change direction. I can accept that explanation. It would've been better if they showed/explained how she did it a bit more, considering it was a key point in the battle.

[KrayZ33]

Sorta, I'm basically saying the girl used a move very similar to what we saw @ 17:35, she's lifting herself up there too. She uses the sword in the ground to change directions, it's possible to do that in a vertical direction, but it's obviously not as flashy and effective as in the anime... but we aren't discussing that . One additional problem would be: "How does she manage to use the sword for momentum and pull it out at the same time?" Because that's what she was doing several times. And that requires not only strength, but how do you pull out something that is anchored in the ground without losing the same/most of the momentum you gained.

It's looks and sounds more realistic than all these "weapon lock in midair + a jumpy escape" we see (in this anime too). For example @ 16:50 when Yatori blocks for the commander. That was and *is* the most annoying and stupid thing ever, you can't fucking block like that, your weapon will be brushed aside like ... I don't know.. a mosquito? And the "dualwield-sword-X-weapon block" is probably the worst thing someone can do. The enemy just used 1 weapon to block both of your hands, congrats - you are dead.

As for the sword in the ground, I think she intended to block and counterattack, not to block the momentum or movement itself completely. She couldn't attack at all before that. That's what swordsmen are trying to do, isn't it? You brush aside weapons, or you block one of your flanks with a sword/main gauche (which is what she is supposed to use)/buckler which creates an opening.


The fight scene itself however was so - well - done.. the animation was amazing, it looked so cool when she did her 360°s and the whole fight was so versatile. It freaking fast too, yet it kept being high quality without any obvious weird faces or lack in detail of some sort.

[shinta|hikari]

Yeah, that's another trope that doesn't make sense. At least we haven't seen the duel style dashing past sword exchange. Yet.

Fight scenes aren't this show's strong point. I remember Yatori easily parrying and blocking the giant fella's great sword with her short sword during their exhibition match. That makes no sense. Even if they were wooden weapons, the weights are too different.

[KrayZ33]

I believe the fights are actually pretty good, at least the ones ft. Yatori, they are better than Tales, which are 100% flashy, but nothing else.

[shinta|hikari]

I guess I just don't like unrealistic battles in a series that likes to pretend it's realistic. It's the same feeling you guys get from the "science" word, only with the combat.

Tales combat is meant to be flashy and nothing else. It isn't a realistic show at all.

[Kraco]

Episode 10 - HS



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I thought the finger not growing back joke was a Gokusen original, but seeing it here as well, I reckon it might originate from some ancient Japanese fairy tale. Aside from that, I'm not entirely sure what to think of Ikta's decision to cut his own finger. The end result was as he wished, but it was nothing but theater in the end. Nanaku will at some point realise that. It worked because of the shock value of Nanaku seeing an old friend cutting his own finger for her sake. However, the unchanging truth is that objectively Ikta was the wrong man to cut his finger, and that's something Nanaku will understand later when she has got the time to think things through. So, in the end, an unrelated person offered her an apology and a sacrifice for something someone else did. That's kind of empty.

Who knows, perhaps Nanaku will pay him a nightly visit again, making it worth it.

I'm looking forward to the coming battles of wits. I hope they deliver, as much as the folks are looking down on the enemy, aside from the borrowed strategist.

[shinta|hikari]

I love how an important character actually lost a part of his body permanently. That's so uncommon in anime.

[NeoCybercoin]

What I also liked was that Yatori didn't even try and stop him
Personally I'm not quite sure what to think of the fact that suddenly he knows the chieftain of the Sinack. That seems to be a bit cheap to me but he did go to that village as a child.

[shinta|hikari]

It should've been shown in an earlier episode. Now it just feels like an excuse to allow Nana to sacrifice her people for the enemy.

And it's funny how a girl who went toe to toe with that Yatori could be beaten by a wooden pole, even if she was emotionally distraught. Her earlier antics and failure to defeat Yatori was clearly due to her immaturity.

[Kraco]

Immaturity is a severe weakness that can result in a defeat in myriad ways. Yatori doesn't suffer from it. Even if their skills were otherwise technically equal, that immaturity will make Nanaku weaker. However, I don't think she's as good as Yatori. She was too flashy with too many strange, big moves that would drain her stamina, making it a half-assed martial art unlike Yatori's. In fact that's probably one reason why she lost to those common grunts: After fighting Yatori and running home she had to be tired. Tired people underperform and make stupid mistakes.

[shinta|hikari]

I think she lost mainly because she went berserk after seeing her loved ones dead. It's not really something I can blame her for. I just confirmed your previous suggestion that she didn't go for the gun immediately with her duel against Yatori because of her immaturity.

[Munsu]

What I also liked was that Yatori didn't even try and stop him
Personally I'm not quite sure what to think of the fact that suddenly he knows the chieftain of the Sinack. That seems to be a bit cheap to me but he did go to that village as a child.

It's not really sudden, it's been foreshadowed for some time. Simply revealed now.

[Buffalobiian]

To all up coming lazy bums Iktas on this forum, the finger to cut is your index finger.

You can still point well with your middle finger afterwards, and your grip strength suffers the least from losing your index. It's also the best finger to lose cosmetically speaking.

[shinta|hikari]

Ikta doesn't need grip strength. He needs his index finger to pinch and thrust into certain things, if you catch my drift.