Lol, indeed.Originally Posted by MFauli
Well, he could look 10 years into Deku's future and see a blank vision. Uhoh
Lol, indeed.Well, he could look 10 years into Deku's future and see a blank vision. Uhoh
Episode 73.
I don't understand how characters with quirks unrelated to their physical ability are so freaking strong. Makes One for All look useless if everyone can smash stuff and move like Spiderman anyway.
Peace.
It's not even close to that level but I get what you mean.
I have no idea why a mere 15kg would throw that copy to the wall and damage the wall to such a degree.
But I guess they had to make him somewhat useful. Toga's movements however seemed to be pretty much in line.
She's basically Rorschach or Batman
Just...hotter.
Except Izuku is Spiderman, and it's pretty obvious what should happen when Rorschach fights Spiderman.
Peace.
Isn't Izuku like 1% of One for All?
Either way, I don't even doubt Izuku would beat her in a straight-up fight.
We already saw as much when she fought Gravity and Froggy.
After all Toga's fightning power relies nearly entirely on deception.
Just like Eraser's relies on nullifying a quirk and turning his enemies to normal human beings and using his equipment
If these humans have equipment on their own and are more nimble/agile than him, he's done for and has to rely on others.
In my opinion, the outlier so far (or at least the only one I remember - not going to recall everyone from the exam) is Nighteye alone.
There is supernatural equipment given to them by the mechanics, but he even explained how much these tiny stamps weigh and I simply don't see it working like that no matter what. (unbelievable strength between his fingers aside)
The copy he hit with them must have less mass than a paper ball to fly around like that.
Last edited by KrayZ33; Mon, 12-23-2019 at 11:08 AM.
It's just your usual shounen martial arts training.
I just suppose that after generations of quirk manifestation, the average human being constitution is somewhat stronger and more durable than previously. You can add strength training on top of that, so it's always felt easy for me to hand wave; otherwise we're back to 'the first person going through a wall should be dead and dismembered' paradox where the point of animation itself is being removed - to make the fantastical seem not so out of place.
My gripe with this isn't about realism. It's about power balance and consistency. Izuku, the MC whose quirk is physical enhancement and can bound around a room faster than most eyes can follow, is somehow unable to easily defeat a normal girl with a knife. It doesn't make sense.
Peace.
From what we've seen, as long as Deku has to concentrate on his quirk while using it, Toga can disappear or hide from him (either by using her quirk or simply her using her ninja techniques depending on whether that's part of the quirk or just an ability)
It's quirk vs quirk. Not quirk vs no quirk or rather - how is Toga a normal girl with stealth stuff like that.
Have we even seen anything that would suggest that Deku can't overpower her with speed or physical ability when his quirk is active? Even when she had him pinned down, he could easily unshackle himself from her hold by sheer power.
Last edited by KrayZ33; Wed, 12-25-2019 at 04:13 AM.
Every time they confront each other without Izuku defeating her instantly is an example of what you are asking for. A superhuman that can zip around a room and smash boulders versus a superhuman with no physical buffs is no contest. This is also why I am unsatisfied with the steal the stamp contest he had, but at least glasses dude had premonition, which made it "barely" believable Izuku couldn't brute force a win.
Also, in the example of Izuku getting pinned down, I also complained about that, saying he shouldn't have been pinned down in the first place or taken that long to escape. It's like getting pinned down by a 2-year-old if you consider their relative strengths. One is just a petite teenage girl, the other is diet Superman.
As for his quirk being inactive being the reason, I also complained about that. Why would he turn it off during an active confrontation with a villain? And he could always just turn it on immediately, like when he was pinned down, but he didn't.
I guess my issue has been consistent from the get go. Izuku is not using his powers properly (which goes against his MC positive qualities of being smart and observant), or even worse, his powers are being nerfed at certain moments for the plot.
Last edited by shinta|hikari; Wed, 12-25-2019 at 11:48 AM.
Peace.
So it's about realism after all. (i.e. it took too long for him to escape - even though it was clear that it was for "story/dialogue" reasons)
The situations were explained properly throughout the whole series.
-Deku can't channel his powers non stop even if you'd liked it that way
-He has to concentrate on using his powers, even the amount of power he wants to dish out.
That does explain all the situations you are talking about already.
Including the "being pinned down" part.
You might as well argue about his quirk and say that he shouldn't be able to use that speed due to the amount of damage he'd take when he speeds through everything/the air with 300km/h or that his own reflexes wouldn't be able to keep up with his speed, let or even his thinking - duh.
If Izuku would constantly use all the power available to him, his enemies (and most likely allies) heads and bodies would explode - one punch man style.
Last edited by KrayZ33; Wed, 12-25-2019 at 01:10 PM.
It's not realism but consistency.
Izuku is a smart kid. That's his character, but he does dumb things (or doesn't do the smart thing), as you said, for dialog/story purposes. I personally dislike that. It's like those long dialogues that happen in the middle of shounen fight scenes. I know they are what they are, but I don't like them nonetheless. There are better ways to handle them, like HxH did in certain battles.
Explaining stuff away is certainly possible, but there are degrees to which I am willing to do that. I'm okay with people breaking walls after being thrown at them because that's for effect, but I'm not okay when they present the MC as a smart superhuman but can't even beat a villain whose quirk is not a physical buff. That directly affects the outcome of the story, making the unexpected result feel forced.
I would've avoided their confrontation altogether to make things consistent, but again, plot.
As you know, I am very strict when it comes to these inconsistencies. I understand why they are there. I just don't like it, especially when they could've been avoided by changing the plot a little.
Heck, a short mention of how Mystique uses her shape-shifting power to partially shape-shift her muscle/cell/bone structure into something sorta superhuman would've sufficed.
EDIT:
To add, I've always had this issue with this show, like in the Bakugo vs Izuku fight, and so on. It's not a deal breaker for me, but I do feel I need to mention how it keeps coming up. That said, I've already accepted that this show is what it is in a post a long while back.
Last edited by shinta|hikari; Wed, 12-25-2019 at 01:19 PM.
Peace.
I don't think these outcomes were forced at all, because again - it has been explained why they are not.
So... I don't really get your point. This show does a rather good job with people using their quirks in a manner that validates their hero status. When they lack phyiscal power, they make up for it with trickery and smart usage of their quirk - or agility and training... or in some cases, just utility.
Toga being able to tackle down Izuku is in no way "out of line". She'll always have the element of suprise, and that elements is enough for Izuku to lose concentration and control of his power.
Toga could probably even kill Izuku at any time whenever she wants by sneaking up to him.
She only starts being at a disadvantage in prolonged fights as she has to use one trick after the other to make Deku lose control / focus.
So far, this situation has never been shown.
During the exam, she used suprise attack after suprise attack.
At the same time, Deku was able to overpower her grip due to his quirk. It came down to Deku's reaction speed.
When I look at how Nighteye took down his enemy however, I can't see or find any explanation.
He used superhuman strength reserved for certain Quirk users.
It would have been more believable (or "in line") if he used some kind of martial arts that would make his enemy stumble and use his own power against him.
He however, did it out of his own strength - a strength he shouldn't have. That show of force and strength is by far the biggest fail in terms of consistency so far.
Last edited by KrayZ33; Wed, 12-25-2019 at 01:56 PM.
My point is that people with quirks unrelated to their physical strength and speed should be unable to keep up with Izuku's superhuman powers. That's really it. But they do in this show, and always have (like Bakugo not getting knocked out by a single Izuku punch). In that sense, this show is very consistent.
Tackling Izuku was certainly possible by surprise, but pinning him down for that long is purely for dialog purposes. I already mentioned this in my old original post about that episode, but Izuku could've activated his quirk, grabbed her forearm and broken it (or slammed her around for GP audiences). Instead, he sorta just escaped the pin.
The same is true in this last episode. He was surprised by her attack, sure, but Eraser already stopped her powers, and he dodges twice without activating his quirk. Then Toga gets caught by the bandages, and he still doesn't activate his quirk. Then she somehow manages to do an impossible flip (I'm ok with this, this is shounen so whatever), and stabs Eraser in the back, but he still doesn't activate his quirk to go after her.
Sure, maybe he was so shocked he couldn't do a thing. In that case, I'll change my complaint to I dislike incompetent protagonists that can't use their powers at critical moments to change the flow of events for the better.
EDIT:
I totally agree with you about Night Eye. It was just so blatant an example I didn't feel the need to mention it.
Peace.
I just realized, Toga collected some of Deku's blood in an earlier arc.
Does that mean, if she ever uses it to try and shapeshift into Deku, she'll slowly start taking One For All's powers?
Did she actually get a hold on his blood?
Wasn't it Ochaco's?
And she can't use the powers either from what we've heard or seen during the provisional license arc
She got Ochaco's blood during the retreat arc and used it in the license exam arc. But at the end of the license exam arc, after being around Deku, she had a drop of blood in one of her vials that she was very happy to have gotten. I don't think they expressly stated that it was Deku's, but it was implied.
Not with her Quirk, but if eating All Might's hair is how OfA was transferred to Deku, couldn't consuming Deku's blood transfer OfA to her?
Oh yeah, something like that could indeed happen.
About the blood, they already covered possible blood consumption in All Might's post Stain debriefing where he assured Midoria he wouldn't lose his powers unless he specifically willed it, meaning this should be covered as well.
Tolerance of Shounen tropes is what it comes down do, and Nighteye stretches that a bit farther than the rest of the fights so far. I also didn't care for his heavy weight stamps, but the author must have thought it would make a cool looking weapon, so here we are...
Just a thought, but one thing that sticks out to me as a bit subversive to shounen about MhA is that the author does very little to quantify how dangerous the characters are aside from their quirks' properties. On the one hand, this makes sense as the fights are predicated on the application of powers and their match-ups/strategies, but can work better (in my opinion) with some more baseline power rankings like Nen and Haki from HxH and OP specifically. By having baseline (relative) power-levels defined for the audience somehow (perhaps just visually), match-ups can serve as the base for the actual tactics, as in a disagvantaged fighter will fight conservatively and so on... As this is, MhA fights can feel somewhat random, or forgone, as the audience has less to speculate. The extreme example of this that I'll always loathe is Fairy Tale, who's cast could have never changed and I'd not know any better, but that's another rant.
It's not just the objective power levels, but the abilities of each character aren't clearly defined. It will go up or down (or branch out) as the author wills it for the plot.
Izuku can be super smart and calm one moment, only to be a surprised little bunny the next.
Red Riot can be brittle as fuck one moment, and with some guts can withstand many times the punishment just minutes ago.
That said, the audience is expected to tolerate or not even notice these shounen tropes, I think. Pretty sure the vast majority of viewers wouldn't even complain about Night Eyes outlandish strength, much less all the less blatant stuff.
Peace.
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