Boku no Hero Academia

[shinta|hikari]

This discussion is hilarious.

[MFauli]

@Kraco: Do you admit that there is a difference in intent between going into your own changing room and HAPPEN to find that hole, and going into your own changing room BECAUSE you know there is that hole? That´s the difference I´m arguing.

I wonder if this discussion would have went on for as long as it is if the roles were reversed. If a girl peeped and got caught.

Nobody would give a shit then, lol.

[shinta|hikari]

I actually would. My main gripe with peeping is that it isn't about some hot girl gracing a horny boy with some skin. It's about the feelings of those who DON'T want to be seen, be it physical deformities, scars, or just general insecurity about their bodies. Peeping in on them robs them of this privacy and will hurt their feelings or instill fear within them. In that sense, there is no difference between the sexes on both sides, victim or perpetrator.

To be clear, this isn't related to the topic at hand, just a side comment about Mfauli's last remark.

[Kraco]

@Kraco: Do you admit that there is a difference in intent between going into your own changing room and HAPPEN to find that hole, and going into your own changing room BECAUSE you know there is that hole? That´s the difference I´m arguing.

That point is not relevant. What matters is what you do with the hole. It's not an always on TV on the wall, hooked up to a camera in the girls' changing room. It's a tiny hole you need to specifically peek through. You could just leave the hole alone and not care about it. That would be neutral. Or if you are trying to be especially upstanding (like Iida whenever he's not seeking revenge), you would probably patch it shut. Since it's a hero academia, I guess few would blame you if you tried to be like a hero and get rid of the hole.

What comes to the reverse situation, let's not forget the old axiom: If a man sees an unwilling woman naked, the man is a pervert. If a woman sees an unwilling man naked, the man is a pervert.

[DarthEnderX]

"You´re either 100% for us or 100% against us". Except, ya know, I´m in-between. Like most people.

Definitions of words are what do that. You either fit the definition of something, or you don't.

If you only murder a few people, you don't get to say you're "in-between" because of all the people you also didn't murder. You are still a murderer.

Thinking that it is okay to look at women naked without their consent means you don't respect women. Straight up, that is what that means. And your attitude is basically "Hey, at least I'm not okay with raping them! That practically makes a feminist!"

[Buffalobiian]

Apparently this wasn't obvious.

11:50 - "Next door is, you know.. The girl's locker room."
11:59 - /rips off poster to enable better peeking.
12:00 - "boobs'
12:02 - /peeks.

He knows. Then he peeks. That's fucking INTENT.

--{in before "This is really minor" (again)}

--Yeah, probably. Still intentional. That doesn't change.


-----------{in before "This is justifiable"}

------------Still intentional. That doesn't change.


This post is written for reference. I'm going to keep referring back to this post when I must repeat myself again.

[MFauli]

@Kraco: I do think it matters. The whole problem in this debate here is the point in time at which you consider intent to come into existence. I would agree that AFTER Mineta discovered the hole, he formed the intent to take a look through it. Yes. HOWEVER, my argument is that he didn´t know about the hole prior to coincidentially stumbling over it. So the entire situation wasn´t planned, it was not his intent to enter the changing room and peep on the girls. There was not intent at the point in time.

Following from there, I think it´s an important difference that the deity of luck shone on somebody, granting him this chance, and somebody who prepared the situation beforehand (see Youkoso Jitsuryoku for a perfect example of INTENT).

Trying to summarize the whole debate:

- Yes, peeping is always a bit scummy
- But it doesn´t hurt anybody when it happens through a tiny hole and without the intent of using devices to take pictures
- Mineta didn´t get into the situation with intent
- he got lucky and then, having been given the chance, intentionally tries to use this chance
- it´s not misogynistic to think a little peeping is alright

Definitions of words are what do that. You either fit the definition of something, or you don't.

If you only murder a few people, you don't get to say you're "in-between" because of all the people you also didn't murder. You are still a murderer.

Your level of extremism is, tbh, quite shocking. It really is full-on SJW semantic. You use the extreme of saying "You´re not in-between just because you didn´t murder some people." No. I´m not murdering anybody. THAT`S the point. In-between means you can hold beliefs that simply don´t adhere to any extreme ideas. But you cannot see that, for you it is murder or no murder. For me, there is a spectrum that would like something like "nothing - making a compliment - peeping - slap on the butt - intimidation - rape - murder". That´s what most people would see, Darth. You don´t. You see "normal - murder". That´s why you´re wrong. That´s why you´re a SW.

[DarthEnderX]

For me, there is a spectrum that would like something like "nothing - making a compliment - peeping - slap on the butt - intimidation - rape - murder". That´s what most people would see, Darth. You don´t. You see "normal - murder".

Here's the thing, even on the "spectrum" you provide, there is a very clear tipping point. For reference, everything from the bold on is a crime.

The moment you start committing CRIMES against women, you are no longer respecting them. If I'm an SJW extremist for thinking you shouldn't commit crimes against women, then I guess I'm an SJW extremist.

[MFauli]

Here's the thing, even on the "spectrum" you provide, there is a very clear tipping point. For reference, everything from the bold on is a crime.

The moment you start committing CRIMES against women, you are no longer respecting them. If I'm an SJW extremist for thinking you shouldn't commit crimes against women, then I guess I'm an SJW extremist.

No, you´re a SJW because you only think in extremes, see your "nothing - murder" spectrum you introduced before.

And I have never argued against peeping being a crime if found out. But the entire point of the discussion was to evaluate if peeping makes Mineta a terrible person, to which I replied he´s not, based on the circumstances. I´d absolutely condemn the guys from Youkoso Jitsuryoku, however ...

[Kraco]

@Kraco: I do think it matters. The whole problem in this debate here is the point in time at which you consider intent to come into existence. I would agree that AFTER Mineta discovered the hole, he formed the intent to take a look through it. Yes. HOWEVER, my argument is that he didn´t know about the hole prior to coincidentially stumbling over it. So the entire situation wasn´t planned, it was not his intent to enter the changing room and peep on the girls. There was not intent at the point in time.

Sorry, but I just can't understand that. The intent comes into play as soon as he realises or even suspects that hole might lead to the girls' changing room. There would be no intent if it went like in my previous example, that he simply found a hole and wondered what the heck it is, and then trying to peer through it shockingly found out he could see a girl's boobs. After that if he immediately retreated, he could still be considered innocent considering the nature of the incident (it's not like a person who accidentally knocked over a Ming vase). But if he continued to enjoy the view the intent would already be there.

Mineta noticed an opportunity to perform a crime and immediately went for it. Like a person entering a department store with no intention of stealing anything, but right away going for it when noticing an unguarded, desirable smartphone on a table.

[MFauli]

Kraco, but now we´re back to where we were before. Here, do you see a difference in the level of intent between these two situations:

1.) Mineta enters the changing room, stumbles over the hole, realizes what it is, wants to look at girls

2.) Mineta heard a couple days earlier that they´d use those changing rooms. Thus, he went there ahead of time, drilled the hole, and planned to look at some booty.

This really is what it comes down to. At least for me. I´m saying that situation #1 is okay and doesn´t make Mineta an overly bad person.

[DarthEnderX]

This is what happens when they skip a week.

Never skip a week Hero Academia.

I´m saying that situation #1 is okay and doesn´t make Mineta an overly bad person.

What it makes him is a person that doesn't respect women. Whether that makes him a bad person or not depends on your personal definition of bad.

You think it doesn't, because you have the exact same disrespect for women and nobody likes to think of themselves as a bad person.

[shinta|hikari]

I think of myself as a bad person. I'm cruel, manipulative, cold, vengeful, spiteful, and overly zealous in my efforts to hurt those I don't like.

[Buffalobiian]

At least for me. I´m saying that situation #1 is okay and doesn´t make Mineta an overly bad person.

I'm going to infer that this makes #2 not okay for you then.

Please explain why spending more time and effort in preparing to peep at girls is less acceptable than spending less time and effort to prepare.

[fireheart]

This whole thing is just hilarious to read while waiting for a new episode.

Anyway my view is that he had the intent to peep before he went into the changing room, why else would he search the wall? Or maybe you should say he wasn't intent on peeping but hoping for the lucky break of getting to peep when he entered. Unless you have a better reason for why he was searching the wall between them and the girls, it's not like we've ever seen him just search walls and rooms out of curiosity.

Also as for Darths nothing - murder, not sure if I got it but it seemed like Mfauli misunderstood, it's not that it's nothing or everything rather you either are a murder or you aren't. The spectrum is there just that it was an extreme example to show you either are or aren't something. So in terms of respecting women you either do or don't, you don't just respect them sometimes and at other times don't respect them. If you go back and forth between the two then you lean more towards not respecting them. As for why peeping is disrespecting shinta had a pretty good argument for that.

By the way according to German law can a person just strut into the girls changing room take a look at everyone and then exit and it's not a crime because they didn't take any pictures? I mean it's harmless... right? Besides the fact that it's not so secretive

[MFauli]

I´m sure you´d get in trouble for peeping in Germany, too, if caught. Accidentally walking into the wrong room, however, should be no problem.

What it makes him is a person that doesn't respect women. Whether that makes him a bad person or not depends on your personal definition of bad.

You think it doesn't, because you have the exact same disrespect for women and nobody likes to think of themselves as a bad person.

And that´s what I won´t accept and where I call you out as a SJW.
I´m against harassment. I condemn real rape. I´m for equality. I´m chivalrous where it makes sense. And so on. THE ONLY thing where I have an opinion that you could interpret as "anti-women", is my stance on coincidential peeping. What you´re saying is that I´m as bad as all those other people who harass, rape, discriminate, and so on. That´s a black and white view of the world and that I disagree with.

I'm going to infer that this makes #2 not okay for you then.

Please explain why spending more time and effort in preparing to peep at girls is less acceptable than spending less time and effort to prepare.

Because elaborate preparation shows an extreme intent that´s almost incomparable to entering a changing room and happen to find a hole. It´s apples and pears. An analogy would be killing someone because you chose to, and killing someone in self-defense.

[Kraco]

An analogy would be killing someone because you chose to, and killing someone in self-defense.

No, the analogy would be planning someone's murder for half a year and then executing the plan, or simply getting angry and clubbing the person dead in the heat of the moment with whatever suitable object happened to be closest at hand.

[MFauli]

Disagree, simply because I don´t see Mineta having committed a crime on the level of murder in any way whatsoever. Basically, he had no choice but to peep. ;>

[fireheart]

I'm kinda curious though, so peeping and not getting caught is fine morally in your opinion. What's your stance on peeping and getting caught, morally? Or is it the same even when the victim knows about it.

[MFauli]

The difference between getting caught and not is the follow-up events. Getting caught will have more or less serious consequences. Not getting caught will literally have no effect, not to you, not to the "victim".

And just for the record, I can remember that when I was a teen, I once accidentally entered the girls´ lockerroom, because the changing rooms were always confusingly distributed at our school. I turned around and walked away, the end. No police, lol.