Boku no Hero Academia

[Kraco]

It kind of feels like Izuku won this fight despite losing it and turning all purple. He won the hero part of it if nothing else. He even healed Todoroki's mind partially. The audience was also majorly impressed simply because he could offer such a major resistance and finally forced Todoroki to use fire. Not to mention the last explosion forcing even the staff to interfere. Still, while Todoroki gave the impression of being already more ready for hero work than many pro heroes, Izuku surely won't give that impression by his self-mutilating power use.

Talking about Izuku's lack of interest in control is useless talk at this point considering that has been evident from the beginning of the show. He never gave it any thought. It's like he assumes one day he will just wake up in the morning perfectly in control of the power.

[shinta|hikari]

Nothing indicates that Todoroki couldn´ t create to quick ice blasts from the sides. Í´m sure he can also freely control fire blazes and quickly so, too.

This is the problem with your argument. Nothing indicates that Todoroki COULD create two quick ice blasts from the sides (read: ice blasts originating away from his body without part of it connected to him). All of the ice attacks shown so far ALWAYS start from his body, therefore it is logical to assume that is his limitation. Otherwise, he would've been shooting spikes from directly underneath Izuku.

Saying that just because there is no evidence he CAN'T do it means he CAN do it is like saying that aliens/god exist because we can't prove that they don't.

[DarthEnderX]

It kind of feels like Izuku won this fight despite losing it and turning all purple. He won the hero part of it if nothing else. He even healed Todoroki's mind partially. The audience was also majorly impressed simply because he could offer such a major resistance and finally forced Todoroki to use fire.

Indeed. If the real point of the tournament is to impress people, he showed that he's pretty much even with Todoroki. So if Todoroki goes on to win, that makes Deku look good as well, even if he lost in an earlier round.

[MFauli]

This is the problem with your argument. Nothing indicates that Todoroki COULD create two quick ice blasts from the sides (read: ice blasts originating away from his body without part of it connected to him). All of the ice attacks shown so far ALWAYS start from his body, therefore it is logical to assume that is his limitation. Otherwise, he would've been shooting spikes from directly underneath Izuku.

Saying that just because there is no evidence he CAN'T do it means he CAN do it is like saying that aliens/god exist because we can't prove that they don't.

He filled the entire stadium with ice up high into the sky in the blink of an eye in his fight against cannonfodder guy. Again, your argument is inconsistent. You complain about lack of logic in some aspects, but not in others. Going by what we´ve seen, I claim that two of those small ice blasts would be possible and wouldn´t be any slower. We´ll have to wait and see. If we see it some time in the future, do you agree that this would have been a much better strategy for Todoroki?

[Ryllharu]

Shoto kicks ass with his fire. I'm pretty sure he'd own Bakugo with that. The fire pretty much negates any side-effects of his freezing and vice versa. Meanwhile, Ochaco's meteor shower already stressed Bakugo's explosive ability without his suit.

Don't be so sure. Bakugou's power comes from sweat. Any heat Todoroki puts out it only going to help Bakugou. Explosions can also give him a temporary safe bubble in the flame. Ochako stressed his power because he blew up all the chunks at once.

[shinta|hikari]

He filled the entire stadium with ice up high into the sky in the blink of an eye in his fight against cannonfodder guy. Again, your argument is inconsistent.

No, yours is. Filling the entire stadium with ice is still an attack that originated from his body. It's actually the very basic frontal attack he used against Izuku but at full force.

Let me put it a different way. Have you ever seen Shoto create ice that originate away from his body? To be clear, this means there is no ice link between the long distance attack and Shoto himself.

Also, your strategy is terrible. If Shoto can make ice pop up from anywhere, the best place to attack from is right underneath Izuku. Why? Because he can't see it coming and can't use smash to cancel it because it literally is freezing his feet to the ground instantly. He'd destroy his own feet if he tried to get free.

[MFauli]

Ofc Midoriya would see ice coming from below, because Todoroki cannot create ice at remote places out of nowhere, it has to travel from himself as we´ve seen in this fight.

However, you really have to explain your logic how it makes sense that he can only create ice in a straight line. Again, we saw that he needs to have the ice "travel", in form of a thin layer on the ground. From that connection, he can then unleash an enormous amount of ice in an instant. So, what logic would dictate that ice can only grow in a straight line from himself? If he can control ice to the extent where he can have it travel forward, I don´t see why he couldn´t make it do a left turn.

I mean, at the end of the day, we can only keep makin assumptions, but I find it a nonsensical assumption. I figure it works almost like Sasuke´s Amaterasu, except Todoroki has to have a starting point.

[David75]

You forgot speed. Turns need time and probably fine control, also adding time.
Tadoroki was not able to freeze Deku even with the fastest attack. Slower ones were not an option.

[MFauli]

His fastest attacks didnt hit because Midoriya used All Might to counter them. In terms of speed, they were fine. And I once again doubt that turning ice blasts would be that much slower.

Btw. his name is Todoroki. You´re probably thinking of a certain cute blue-haired girl that knows how to cook.

[shinta|hikari]

I never said ice could only travel in a straight line. I just said curves took longer to hit and used more ice, which are both logical assumptions.

Take note, I've always stated that his power is limited by ice originating from himself. So did David. You were the one insisting on ice blasts coming from the "sides." It wasn't clear if you meant they appeared away from Shoto or not. See quote below.

Says the guy defending his own theory with "And don´t give me that bullshit about ...", lol. I find it hard to believe that Shoto cannot cast ice any way he wants. Same with flames.

Cast any way he wants implies he can just conjure it up anywhere.

And if you were specifically addressing the straight line vs curved attack, David has already mentioned that, and I agreed with him. It is essentially the second sentence of this post, but I'll repost it here.

Of course he can change the ice's direction. Read David's post. What he cannot do is make it appear away from his body without a connection, so the source will always be him. That's why having ice snake around to flank Izuku is a slower attack and uses more ice (and most likely focus) than his straightforward attack, which was already extremely effective because it forced Izuku to use up his body parts. Shoto just didn't think Izuku can cheat by reusing fingers.

So your post (see below), which was posted after the quote above, is utter bullshit.

However, you really have to explain your logic how it makes sense that he can only create ice in a straight line. Again, we saw that he needs to have the ice "travel", in form of a thin layer on the ground. From that connection, he can then unleash an enormous amount of ice in an instant. So, what logic would dictate that ice can only grow in a straight line from himself? If he can control ice to the extent where he can have it travel forward, I don´t see why he couldn´t make it do a left turn.

Really. How the hell did you come to the above conclusion? LOL.

[MFauli]

So attack speed is your argument, then? Still disagreeing, since Todoroki has shown to create ice blasts pretty much instantly. A curve shouldn´t take significant more time. My assumption.

[shinta|hikari]

Not exactly. I don't understand why you don't seem to read the entire post before replying, but I'll repeat and break it down here anyway.

Curved attacks have certain disadvantages to straight on attacks because:
1) They cover more distance. This is unavoidable. If straight is almost instant, then a curve will no longer be almost instant. It may even be slow enough for Izuku to see and dodge.
2) They use more ice, therefore freezing Shoto faster.
3) They use more control, and therefore focus. This can delay the attack's activation or increase the margin of error.

To add, you are not only asking Shoto to shoot curving ice spikes. You are actually saying he should do two simultaneous attacks, one from each side. That ups the difficulty significantly. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen Shoto shoot out two attacks going in different directions at the same time

These are all deductions based on simple logic and physics. It is true that none of these are explicitly mentioned in the show, but they have more evidence supporting them than your assumption that "Todoroki has shown to create ice blasts pretty much instantly. A curve shouldn´t take significant more time."

[Kraco]

There's nothing instantaneous about his ice power. A gun would be instantaneous. For example a regular 9mm pistol would have a muzzle velocity of 350m/s, and if for simplicity's sake we assume the bullet speed doesn't drop too much, then if the dudes were 15 meters apart, it would take the bullet 0.04s to cross the distance. The human brain, and especially the Deku brain, can't do shit in 0.04 seconds, so it's an instant. However, in this fight's case Izuku could afford to wait until Todoroki attacked and then counterattack. In other words he already had all the time in the world as far as the time needed is concerned. If Todoroki had used a fancier attack using even a bit more time, Izuku would have delivered his own attack instead. When Todoroki finally got slower due to freezing himself, Izuku found the opportunity.

[MFauli]

shinta, everything you just listed is a mix of your own assumptions and flimsy (at best) arguments based on physics, which I strongly disagree with in terms of how significant those would come to cause. Understand this: I agree that a curved attack would take more time than an attack in a straight line. However, I also think that we´d be talking a difference in the microseconds, not even miliseconds. Basically: A curved attack would take longer, but in a magnitude that´s not measureable. This is where you disagree and say that there´d be a time delay so big that Midoriya would be able to easily dodge.

Edit: Oh nice som Hitler-asshole wrote a harrassing comment in my reputation comments-section. Classy.

[shinta|hikari]

At least I based my assumptions on physics and logic. You based your assumption on... your imagination?

[MFauli]

I based mine on physics and logic, too. It´s kinda hard to claim that for yourself when we´re talking about somebody who can create ice blasts.

[shinta|hikari]

I based mine on physics and logic, too.

Explain yourself.

[DarthEnderX]

Please don't. The argument is already SUPER boring...

[shinta|hikari]

Then don't read it? I don't get people like you.

[DarthEnderX]

Then don't read it? I don't get people like you.

My scrolly finger gets tired.