ROCK LEE IS BETTER!!!

**Guizmo0** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 04:47 AM

lee would win i think but it would be hard bcuz the renge's @ ura / omote wouldnt work bcuz of that kaiten jitsu

and close range is hard cuz his points will get pressed
on the other hand you have speed and gates to improve power and even more speed.

hard choice but i would be 4 lee cuz he has gai at his side and nobody can beat gai luv

**Kn1ves** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 04:57 AM

I see where youre going with this but you have no valid facts.

All you can say is that Rock Lee has speed and that determination.
Neji has pure talent and pure skill. And seeing as how they see each other as rivals, Neji then carries out the 'determination' factor as well.
Im saying, from a facts point of view, Neji is better than Rock Lee, seeing as how he couldnt even finish off a lower form of absolute defense (Gaara). And you know he gave that everything hes got because he did not want to lose there.
Now with those facts in hand, and seeing as how much inferior Rock Lee is to Neji, We all know that Neji would kick his ass.

All you can say is, "You never know"

My arguement has valid points and yours are based on speculation.

Neji > Rock Lee

You just need to accept the fact that there is always someone better than you, wherever you are, whoever you are.

**LegendarySenninJiraiya** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 04:58 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Neji-AK @ Dec 8 2003, 03:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Lee...

Neji was surprised to see Lee twice...
once getting his movement speed back...
and twice when he opened the gates on gaara...

Cant defend what you cant see right?
Im sure Lee's speed would counter neji's absolute defense...
Neji needs to acknowledge the danger before he uses it... but at in-visible speeds, how would he acknowledge it... and it probably uses a lotta chakra...

Theres my outlook... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
this is a big IF question, because not only has it not happened but we are very unsure about the powers of the 2 people in question, Neji fought Hinata, tho i love Hinata and think shes the cutest thing ever, i know that Hinata isnt too strong, and Rock tho he shined magnificently in his fight, was fighting Gaara, and that sorta downplays his power, so Neji got too much of a boost and Rock got robbed of his moment, that misleads us with both characters, someone could watch Rock's fight and say hey, Rock is good but he hit Gaara so many times and it did nothing, is he too weak or is Gaara too strong, i think Gaara was just too strong, anyways, yeh that misleads us with them, but if we step back and take a look at it, we can at least try to come up with an if answer.

the first thing to wonder is, does Byakugan help the user see things that're moving at a faster speed. for instance, Sasuke's sharingan does, u can see this in his fight with Rock and his fight with Orochimaru, if byakugan works the same way, then Neji would be able to see Rock move, if it doesnt, then Neji is fucked all around because he has no sand protection, he wouldnt last even one hit from Rock

Also another thing we have to consider is if Neji's byakugan actually helps him see Rock even tho hes moving fast, would his superior taijutsu style be able to do anything against Rock's raw speed and power and whatever style he practices, Gentle Fist is the best fighting style in Konoha i think and if Rock's speed isnt enough of an advantage in the fight (for instance if neji isnt like gaara and can easily follow his movements) Rock would lose to Neji's Gentle Fist because it is a superior style, but if the speed is a huge advantage or Gentle Fist's advantage isnt enough to balance it out, Neji would fall easily...

so in the long run who do i think would win, Rock Lee, becasue hes super fast, super strong, can open gates at such a young age, and he spent his whole training for beating assholes like Neji and Sasuke, so called Elites or Geniuses, whereas they spent their whole time lookin down on people like Naruto and Rock Lee so they would be suprised in a fight against them and would most likely lose, thats my verdict, Neji is over-cocky, Rock is super fast and pummels Neji into the dirt and Hinata spits on his dead body for retaliation

**Someonemanr** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 05:06 AM

Vote for Neji, personally I'd like Lee to win more and if this were in the prelims I'm pretty sure Neji couldn't take Lee, I'm pretty sure that if Lee had gone up against anyone else beside Gaara he would have won. But now Neji has had a whole month to train over Lee, he's increased his stamina and developed his defense. So it'd definately be a tough battle, what it comes down too is that Lee is much faster and stronger, but he wouldn't be able to get past Neji's defense unless he wore him down, but unlike Gaara's sand Neji's chakra shield seems almost instantaneously, like TenTen said, it's better then Gaara's defense. Also, it would only take a few hits from Neji before Lee wouldn't be able to do anything anymore. Neji seals him up and that's the end of the fight, but I guess that's only if Neji can catch Lee.

**Neji-AK** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 05:08 AM

gj stupid...

there are no facts that can say "yes this person is better then this person and will definitely win" because it doesnt happen...

**Kn1ves** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 05:14 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LegendarySenninJiraiya @ Dec 9 2003, 01:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

so in the long run who do i think would win, Rock Lee, becasue hes super fast, super strong, can open gates at such a young age, </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Neji is using Hyugas top bloodline ability only a year older than Rock Lee.
Byakugan > Sharingan so it should be able to detect people going at high speeds, if not, Neji can still sense him with his 360deg vision. They are equally strong in the type of hand to hand combat they use, its all a matter of who attacks 1st and who has a better defense (Neji). Stop rooting for the good guy because he beats on poor little Hinata. Love the bad guys too, without them, Naruto wouldn't be where he is right now.

Btw seeing as Naruto will kick Nejis ass, you think Naruto > Rock Lee???

Rock Lee is super fast and powerful after all, and Naruto always gets beat before he tries to fight again. Maybe Rock Lee can finish off Naruto before he realizes how to defeat Rock Lee!

"You never know"

**Kn1ves** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 05:17 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Neji-AK @ Dec 9 2003, 02:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> gj stupid...

there are no facts that can say "yes this person is better then this person and will definitely win" because it doesnt happen... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Then how are you gonna prove to ME that Rock Lee can beat Neji?

My gun is bigger than your knife, im definitely gonna win

**LegendarySenninJiraiya** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 05:19 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kn1ves @ Dec 9 2003, 03:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I see where youre going with this but you have no valid facts.

All you can say is that Rock Lee has speed and that determination.
Neji has pure talent and pure skill. And seeing as how they see each other as rivals, Neji then carries out the 'determination' factor as well.
Im saying, from a facts point of view, Neji is better than Rock Lee, seeing as how he couldnt even finish off a lower form of absolute defense (Gaara). And you know he gave that everything hes got because he did not want to lose there.
Now with those facts in hand, and seeing as how much inferior Rock Lee is to Neji, We all know that Neji would kick his ass.

All you can say is, "You never know"

My arguement has valid points and yours are based on speculation.

Neji > Rock Lee

You just need to accept the fact that there is always someone better than you, wherever you are, whoever you are. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Knives heres a valid fact for u, Rock Lee has been training his entire life almost to beat Neji, Rock Lee has been able to do many things that Neji is unable to do, Rock Lee has the speed of a thousand gods, the strength of god knows how many men, and the determination that rivals Naruto's, Rock also made moves specifically to beat Neji, and Gai a specialist at beating "elites" like Neji and Sasuke and Kakashi, trained Rock Lee to do the same, also just because a taijutsu style is more effective than another doesnt mean that someone using the lesser effective one cant whip the more effective one if they're better at it and faster and stronger than the opponent, take a look at real martial arts, some arts have been proven more effective than others but one martial artist can always beat another if they're faster stronger smarter and better at their art than the other person is, all these things add up, Neji wasnt even prepared to fight Rock, if he had drawn Rock's name as his opponent, he would've strutted his cocky ass to the ring and Rock woulda opened up a can the likes of which he opened up on Naruto and Sasuke on Neji, the fact is that Rock couldve beaten any other genin there than Gaara, he is the most powerful, fastest, most disciplined, most determined, most well trained genin of all the genin that fought, and simply watchin the anime supports this, Rock owns Neji and his ponytail too, ur gonna have to come to terms with the fact that isnt as good as Rock Lee, and that the only reason u believe what u do is because u share so many traits with Neji like ur arrogant attitude

also about the absolute defense thing, neji's is better in that it repels all attacks 360 degrees around Neji, but the thing is Neji must be aware of the attack and he must be able to time it for when the attack hits and he also has a finite amount of chakra, so chew on that, Neji could do absolute defense a few times, then what? hes not fast enough to chase down Rock to hit him, if u think he is ur a retard, Neji cannot hit Rock, if he cant hit him, what can he do to beat him? throw some kunai? Rock is far too fast for him to deal with, theres no way he can win with taijutsu against a taijutsu specialist that is 20 times faster and 20 times stronger than him, anyways, if u consider the facts, Neji would tire himself out before he even made Rock break a sweat, he only has so much chakra, he isnt Naruto or Gaara, and Gaaras absolute defense got broken thru if u remember, it was his backup that saved his ass, after endless pummeling the sand protected him, Neji doesnt have that luxury so to compare him to Gaara is stupid, Gaara would own Neji and Neji wouldnt even be able to hit him much damage him how Rock did

and finally theres a flaw with ur thinking, theres a finite number of people in the world, u can take all 6billion+ people and put em in ranks in a certain area, if someones always better, then who is better than the number one guy, who can be better than the best?

**LegendarySenninJiraiya** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 05:30 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kn1ves @ Dec 9 2003, 04:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LegendarySenninJiraiya @ Dec 9 2003, 01:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

so in the long run who do i think would win, Rock Lee, becasue hes super fast, super strong, can open gates at such a young age, </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Neji is using Hyugas top bloodline ability only a year older than Rock Lee.
Byakugan > Sharingan so it should be able to detect people going at high speeds, if not, Neji can still sense him with his 360deg vision. They are equally strong in the type of hand to hand combat they use, its all a matter of who attacks 1st and who has a better defense (Neji). Stop rooting for the good guy because he beats on poor little Hinata. Love the bad guys too, without them, Naruto wouldn't be where he is right now.

Btw seeing as Naruto will kick Nejis ass, you think Naruto > Rock Lee???

Rock Lee is super fast and powerful after all, and Naruto always gets beat before he tries to fight again. Maybe Rock Lee can finish off Naruto before he realizes how to defeat Rock Lee!

"You never know" </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
actually sharingan is seen as better than byakugan by some people, it is believed to be an offshoot of byakugan, some kinda evolved form, but who knows for sure, anywyas, if ur peripheral vision were extended to 360degrees, ur eyes would still only see at whatever framerate they can see at now, i think 40 fps we see at, something like that, who knows, anyways, flies have different eyes and see at something like 200 fps, thats like sharingan, regular eyesight but able to see things moving at faster rates, if ur peripheral vision were 360 degrees and the person u were fighting is moving faster than ur eye can see, it doesnt matter because that person is moving thru diff. spots in ur fov before ur brain and eye even communicate with each other that they saw something,so if Rock ran a circle around neji and he doesnt have the power to see things moving at faster speeds he would think rock were on the right when he was really already on the left or maybe making his 5th circle around him

btw, any jutsu has a flaw something u can use to beat it, any taijutsu would have one too, gentle fist is NOT perfect and can be defeated if the person is a better overall fighter than the jyuuken user, the same thing can be applied to anything, the m16 is technically a more up to date and accurate gun, but that wouldnt never imply that an army equipped with ak47s couldnt beat the army with m16s, tehyd just need to be that much better at using their weapons, whatever equipment u have doesnt matter, u just have to be that much better than the person to get away with it, even for a "knife at a gunfight" u can say rock lee is the knife but it's more like neji is, because his taijutsu is useless against an opponent he cant even hit, we already know neji is far too slow for rock, hes not gonna match up with him on speed, so yes, neji will lose, it'd be something like the sasuke fight, even if his eyes are able to see it, he would rpobably not be able to do shit about it cuz his body is too slow

**Kn1ves** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 05:31 AM

Finally somene smart to shut me up. Gnight guys, Im going home. GG, My point has always been that Rock Lee is better (Check the Topic? Thanks) Neji, while still being one of the most successful ninjas out there cannot compare to Rock Lee, he does have the determination, the talent, and the skill to become one of the best. Ive spewed so much bullshit about Neji, I got nothing else to say.

Btw my 'thinking' about someone being better than someone else.
Nobody is perfect my friend. One person maybe able to outdo you on one category, but you can always find a flaw in them where you can defeat them in.
(Rock Lee has found this through his training and used it to overcome many obstacles)

Gnight.

**SeGee** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 05:32 AM

very good post there, I like it a lot and has many good points.. I agree with U 100%

<-- ninja

**LegendarySenninJiraiya** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 05:36 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kn1ves @ Dec 9 2003, 04:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Finally somene smart to shut me up. Gnight guys, Im going home. GG, My point has always been that Rock Lee is better (Check the Topic? Thanks) Neji, while still being one of the most successful ninjas out there cannot compare to Rock Lee, he does have the determination, the talent, and the skill to become one of the best. Ive spewed so much bullshit about Neji, I got nothing else to say.

Btw my 'thinking' about someone being better than someone else.
Nobody is perfect my friend. One person maybe able to outdo you on one category, but you can always find a flaw in them where you can defeat them in.
(Rock Lee has found this through his training and used it to overcome many obstacles)

Gnight. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
in ur way of thinkin, ud be explaining more that no one is better than anyone than the fact that someone is always better, but we all know thats not true, the person that is better is overall on a regular basis able to beat the other person, if its an even trade its a tie if its close to even trade its a tie, if it tips too far one way or the other that person is better/worse than the other, if u got a friend that u beat in basketball 900 times and he beats u one time, yeh he was able to beat u, but ur definitely better than him

**Kn1ves** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 05:36 AM

Watch the polls slowly, go Neji go!

**brightdark** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 05:42 AM

@LegendarySenninJiraiya
you are so right about that defense of neji's

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kn1ves @ Dec 9 2003, 08:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Dont underestimate absolute defense then... it isnt called that for no reason</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kn1ves @ Dec 9 2003, 09:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Im saying, from a facts point of view, Neji is better than Rock Lee, seeing as how he couldnt even finish off a lower form of absolute defense (Gaara). And you know he gave that everything hes got because he did not want to lose there.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
looking down on gaara's defence are we?

before you go ahead and think that kaiten is superior and total greatness in all aspects
read LegendarySenninJiraiya's post

neji is a 12 years old kid
genious, yet still a kid

he does not have godly amounts of chakra
and before you bash gaara's shield
you should know that it is automatic and that the strength behind it is...something we don't know
for all we know it could be kyubi level chakra that is supporting that shield

and we don't know the strength ratio between lee's 'chakra burst ala gates' and neji's chraka defence

I bet you that there is high possibility that all the bursting chakra in lee's being will be enough to break through neji's kaiten

**Serpico** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 05:53 AM

here is some real facts to consider

Neji also trained his entire life, just like Lee
Neji can see Lee's speed and in all directions
Neji has beaten Lee consistantly for 2 years and as far as we know Rock Lee has never layed a finger on Neji even with his great speed
Lee did NOT break Gaara's defense (maybe you missed the part where Gaara walks off unharmed at the end of the fight)

and as a testament to Neji's own speed...
Neji hit Hinata's chakra points so fast no one even saw it happen not even the Jounins
He can deflect hundred of Tentens weapons
He runs fast enough to blow past more than 50 of Naruto's clones unopposed
He beat the crap out of Lee for years

mmm on top of that Neji is a genius who learned super advanced techniques only handed down to the heir of the main family and by himself at such an early age

even Lee himself admits Neji is probably the strongest,
this means he knows his only shot is the Ura Renge, and even then his chance is quite frankly very slim since it failed on Gaara and Neji's defense is greater than Gaara's

I think Lee's chance to win is 1%

Maybe Lee has magical powers from an episode I missed though

(I'm not trying to fight with any of you just putting up a good argument for Neji

)

**Neji-AK** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 06:10 AM

idiot.. when did i say i'd provide proof?

im rebuting your "proof"
my posts are and always have been my opinion

dont get all offensive now, it is just a forum, you need to chill out dude

**brightdark** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 06:12 AM

alright

let's check up on your 'facts' then

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Neji can see Lee's speed and in all directions</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
this is not a fact(I think

)
sharingan can see the renge
but we don't know if byakugan can or cannot

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Neji has beaten Lee consistantly for 2 years and as far as we know Rock Lee has never layed a finger on Neji even with his great speed</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
as far as we know lee has never used renge against neji

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>even Lee himself admits Neji is probably the strongest,
this means he knows his only shot is the Ura Renge, and even then his chance is quite frankly very slim since it failed on Gaara and Neji's defense is greater than Gaara's</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
we don't know the strength ratio between gaara's shield and neji's kaiten

remember that we do not know the strength of the force that is holding gaara'a shield
you are saying that neji's chakra is enough to stop lee because gaara's was enough
how do we know that neji's kaiten is stronger than gaara's shield?

**Serpico** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 06:20 AM

Brightdark: those are all valid counterpoints, I considered them though thats why I am 99% certain instead of 100%

**SeGee** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 06:27 AM

*agresstion in here =)*

Anyways, Neji is 13 not 12.

Neji and lee havent fought for a long time and he didint know any of his tactics. They fougth when lee was still a noob

**brightdark** · Tue, 12-09-2003, 06:37 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SeGee @ Dec 9 2003, 11:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Neji and lee havent fought for a long time and he didint know any of his tactics. They fougth when lee was still a noob </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I thik they have always been fighting and training together
not only when lee was noob

but yeah
that flash back we saw between lee and neji was from when lee was little kiddy noob

and since we saw neji beat him back then
they all think that neji is still beating lee like that even now
and that lee is using renge on neji on a regular basis

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