Hai to Gensou no Grimgar

[MFauli]

They *should* retreat, but they won't. This makes for a good final battle to conclude the series. After all, it'd be boring if they only ever engaged in low risk-battles.

There's three important events to happen:

- Defeating Death Spots to avenge Mary´s team mates
- Ranta proving himself to Haru
- Ranta finally summoning that demon he has been going on about every since episode 1

They showed us several stun-spells this episode. I think those will come in handy to focus on the smaller enemies while keeping Death Spot in place.
If I got to choose, it'd be awesome if Ranta fights Death Spots all by himself, proving that there are situations where you gotta have 1-on-1 skills.

[shinta|hikari]

In my opinion he's a poorer leader than Ranta a team member.

You've gotta be kidding right? Haru sucks as a leader because he doesn't have balls, but Ranta belongs to another league of stupid completely. In any realistic situation, a guy like that would've been kicked out of ANY team, unless he's the boss, or the boss's son.

Ranta is a psychopathic (in the worst way) asshole. And that's coming from me, who normally likes psychopaths. It's just that being a psychopath AND an idiot is not a good combination. It leads to events like almost skewering your party leader. Even his reasoning for fighting his "rival" one on one is ridiculous. It's good to try soloing, but it's stupid to do it after strengthening your enemy from a misused spell. It's even stupider to keep shouting while engaging in physical activity. Kiai shouts must be used at the right time, not randomly, or else you just exhaust yourself, as Haru said.

I agree with Mfauli. I hope Ranta goes off and fights Death Spot by himself. Then he can die. Then we can have 2 more funeral episodes. Those are a better watch than Ranta's screen time.

The funniest thing about Ranta is he only acts arrogant in front of nice (weak) people. If confronted by Renji or someone similar, he becomes a pussy. He even backs off when Yume and the others get seriously angry.

[MFauli]

I agree with Mfauli. I hope Ranta goes off and fights Death Spot by himself. Then he can die. Then we can have 2 more funeral episodes. Those are a better watch than Ranta's screen time..

lol

May your wife never take off her sweatshirt. No waki for you!

[shinta|hikari]

But I have hundreds of waki-exposing waifus already.

[Kraco]

Ranta is an idiot, but he's still doing his part in the team, just like he said himself. Hal merely doesn't have the skills or mentality to put him to proper use. Or anybody for that matter. These guys are basically adventurers no matter what they are called. They have different backgrounds and there's nothing uniform in their combat skills or methods. They are fighting for themselves, in order to survice and develop. Hal's problem, like was demonstrated during his useless talk with Ranta in the middle of the night, is that he thinks he's going to be a capable leader when he understands every other member (or rather they all understand each other and become best friends forever) and when they all conform to his view of their roles. That might work in regular armed forces, but it won't work in a band of adventurers. It's a basic amateur error. He's only going to be the capable leader once he gets the team working with what he has got in his hands. That's why I said he should go and get advice from the pros.

This is essentially why episode 33 of Soul Eater (or the corresponding chapter) is one of my favourites in the otherwise goofy show.

[shinta|hikari]

He's not doing his part at all, though. He just claims to.

Almost killing your leader on purpose (as he so proudly claims after the fact) is not doing his part. Trying to solo a berserk enemy out of pride while everyone watches is not his part. Not heeding good advice that may save his life is not his part. Ranting like a dick all the time is not his part.

He is clearly not doing his part.

Part of being in a team is getting along with the others. That's basic. They aren't cogs in a machine. They are people. Ranta is proud of not trying to do that. WTF.

Excluding Ranta, Haru is actually doing okay with the rest of his party. He even softened up the cold Mary. He isn't a good leader (that would be Renji), but no, no amount of rationalizing you do can convince me (or likely anyone apart from Mfauli) that Ranta is a better party member than Haru is a leader.

EDIT:
Now if you mean Ranta can hold his own in combat, then I agree. I think he is probably the most independently capable among all of them. But that makes him a good solo fighter, not team member. A single dick move can get an entire party killed, and let's face it, the guy's a dick. He admits that much himself.

[Kraco]

Ranta is only a better member of the team than Hal a leader because it's relative. Well, maybe that's an exaggeration because at the end of the day Hal did manage to get them back into action and adventuring, so he's not a total failure. I'll admit that much. However, that still doesn't mean much. Ranta could be a better member if Hal could adjust his tactics so that he could use Ranta the only way that idiot can be used. Now he's trying to use him like a regular fighter in his messed up and dysfunctional formation, which only leads to the kind of problems you mentioned: He almost got stabbed by Ranta, more or less on purpose. It's quite clear he can't change Ranta, only a real mofo like Renji could, so he has to change himself, that is, change his own tactics, which foremost would mean not getting in Ranta's way. The guy needs to deal the finishing blow as much as possible due to his dark knight path. It's not something Hal simply can ignore because he doesn't like it.

Part of being in a team is getting along with the others. That's basic. They aren't cogs in a machine. They are people. Ranta is proud of not trying to do that. WTF.

Ranta isn't interested in getting along with the others. But he's clearly interested in working in the team. Hal merely needs to understand this. But he's obsessed with the idea of everybody being friends. Sure, it worked splendidly with Mary, but looking at Mary's merry flashbacks, that was her real personality, while the kuudere one is a result of her PTSD. Ranta's personality is that of a petty scumbag. But he still has got the skills and is following Hal's bigger decisions, more or less.

[shinta|hikari]

You didn't address the issues I enumerated.

Ranta almost killed Haru (intentionally). Ranta doesn't listen to good advice. Ranta doesn't work with the team (he fought solo while others are available to help). Ranta is always an ass. Everyone acknowledges this, including the person himself.

The "could be a better" argument is meaningless. What matters is Ranta vs Haru's value in their respective positions right now.

It's not about personality. It's not about friendship. Even if you pretend, you have to act with a certain level of courtesy to your teammates. That's normal. Not just in fantasy land. Anywhere.

You want Haru to adapt himself to someone like that to qualify as a better leader than Ranta is a party member? That's a completely unfair double standard. Ranta acts like a dick and refuses to get along with anyone, and somehow, he's better at his job than Haru is at his, even after the guy managed to pull together the mopey mess everyone was and even recruit them a healer.

[MFauli]

Ranta is a demon knight. Him almost killling Haru is part of his class.

[shinta|hikari]

I knew Ranta reminded me of someone.

[MFauli]

Lol, I'm sorry that I happen to like unpopular characters. But Zolzal, Ranta, Light or Frank Underwood are more interesting than some smiling shining goody good good.

[shinta|hikari]

Please don't compare Light and Frank Underwood to Ranta and Zolzal...

And how are Light and Frank unpopular?

Still, I'm glad you like those characters too. I was beginning to think you love idiots.

[Kraco]

You didn't address the issues I enumerated.

Ranta almost killed Haru (intentionally). Ranta doesn't listen to good advice. Ranta doesn't work with the team (he fought solo while others are available to help). Ranta is always an ass. Everyone acknowledges this, including the person himself.

In fact I did address the issues, but you are stuck in the same groove as Hal and thus you can't understand it.

The "could be a better" argument is meaningless. What matters is Ranta vs Haru's value in their respective positions right now.

It's not about personality. It's not about friendship. Even if you pretend, you have to act with a certain level of courtesy to your teammates. That's normal. Not just in fantasy land. Anywhere.

All the others in the team consider Ranta an annoying idiot or are afraid of him (although Shihoru is afraid of almost all men). They treat him accordingly. Hal tries to force himself to befriend Ranta because he thinks that's what he's supposed to do in order to a leader worthy of a dead man's shadow. Ranta doesn't seem to care overly much about his treatment. He's probably used to it. He doesn't try to change himself even though he's been told numerous times why the others don't like him. Under such circumstances why do you think anybody would change? If he had a choice, I reckon he would leave the team and find one where everybody else wouldn't hate him or even if they did, the leader was capable to keeping his head cool and make things work professionally.

You want Haru to adapt himself to someone like that to qualify as a better leader than Ranta is a party member? That's a completely unfair double standard. Ranta acts like a dick and refuses to get along with anyone, and somehow, he's better at his job than Haru is at his, even after the guy managed to pull together the mopey mess everyone was and even recruit them a healer.

I admitted getting the team to act once again was a worthy deed. I'm just not sure if that was a sign of excellent leadership per se. He managed to do it by imagining what Manato would have done and because they all simply had to do something or starve to death. He hasn't shown particularly outstanding leadership skills afterwards. Mary merely needed a friend and realise being alone isn't what she wants to be (she was a cheerful girl in the old team). However, Ranta is the only concrete, persistent leadership problem Hal faces, and he seems to be unable to do anything about it. If everything you said was true, he should simply kick Ranta out of the team. That's the easy way, but it's still something a leader needs to be capable of. The harder way would be what I've been telling in a couple of posts earlier. It's in fact so fundamentally difficult that even you can't understand the concept, so it's quite natural a total amateur leader unsure of himself like Hal can't get it either.

[shinta|hikari]

All you said only means that Haru is not a good leader. Of course he isn't. He admits that himself.

From the start, I'm only arguing the ridiculous statement you made: Haru is a worse leader than Ranta is a team member.

In what world is not being able to fix/adapt to a dickhead team member worse than BEING that dickhead team member? I don't understand your reasoning at all.

Let me put it this way since we're comparing job effectiveness:
Will the party be better off without Haru or without Ranta? The answer is obvious.

[Kraco]

The requirements for being a leader or being a random rank and file member are different. Obviously the leadership role assumes a lot more from a person. That's why it's a lot easier to be a bad leader than a bad underling if the roles are forced on people. An incompetent leader can still do well enough if the flunkies are sufficient and show initiative, like Hal manages to handle most of the team, but a poor leader is helpless in front of a bad subordinate. However, the bad subordinate only needs to care for himself and do barely what is expected of him for his own good, just like Ranta is doing. He's killing his share of enemies and isn't shirking from battle. That's the very basic role for him and he is doing it. Being friends with everybody is just added extra.

Sure, the team would be better off without Ranta than Hal. What kind of a question is that? Let me ask you another question: Would the team be better off with or without Ranta's strength in battle?

[shinta|hikari]

Your question is completely irrelevant to your statement. That doesn't compare Haru's and Ranta's job effectiveness at all.

Again, you forgot that Ranta almost killed the party leader. And he doesn't listen to advice that might save his (and as a result his team's) lives. Your basically playing off his dumb antics as something irrelevant, when in reality it's a huge problem for the team, which is why Haru wants to fix it.

Killing his share of enemies and not running away isn't a team members job. A team member's job is to work with and as a team, something Ranta refuses to do. Everyone else does it, in case you forgot.

You said that Haru is a worse leader than Ranta a team member. That means to show their comparative job effectiveness, you have to remove each of them from the team and see how it turns out.

By admitting that the team would be better off without Ranta than Haru, you already negated your own statement. Why? Because a bad leader can do a lot more harm than a dumb member (because a single bad decision will get everyone killed), yet despite that, you say he is more valuable than Ranta.

Let's get back to basics:
Ranta is the PROBLEM. Haru not being able to fix the problem can't mean that he's worse than the problem. The problem is the problem, after all.

You see, my argument is that simple. You added all the frills around it, but that's all I'm saying. What you're doing is setting the bar for a team member dirt low, and setting the bar for a leader ridiculously high.

If you insist on those absurd standards, then whatever.

[Kraco]

Killing his share of enemies and not running away isn't a team members job. A team member's job is to work with and as a team, something Ranta refuses to do. Everyone else does it, in case you forgot.

I don't get it. We have 10 eps of Ranta doing his share of killing goblins and kobolds. That ensures the team has food on their table, a place to live in, and money to use for equipment and training, even occasional entertainment. Yet you say he's not doing his job. He is doing his job. He's merely not doing the job Hal thinks Ranta should be doing. But comparing the existing results and Hal's ideals, which one weighs more? I value the results more.

You said that Haru is a worse leader than Ranta a team member. That means to show their comparative job effectiveness, you have to remove each of them from the team and see how it turns out.

By admitting that the team would be better off without Ranta than Haru, you already negated your own statement. Why? Because a bad leader can do a lot more harm than a dumb member (because a single bad decision will get everyone killed), yet despite that, you say he is more valuable than Ranta.

Nah. You can't remove the leader but you can remove a regular member. You could also remove Mary, Thanks, Shihoru, or Yume, yet the team would still function. So, it's not relevant to ask if removing a random member would matter as much as removing the commander.

What does Hal actually do in practice as a leader? He decides when they go to hunt and when they leave from hunting. He doesn't really coordinate battles at all. The members do it by themselves based on their experience and battle sense. Unfortunately that also means someone like Ranta might semi-accidentally come close to stabbing someone. Like I have said a bunch of times before, a weakling like Hal can't reshape Ranta. Instead he should devise plans that would get the most out of Ranta. But he's incapable of that at least for now. So, he uselessly tries to lecture him.

Let's get back to basics:
Ranta is the PROBLEM. Haru not being able to fix the problem can't mean that he's worse than the problem. The problem is the problem, after all.

A problem in the team is the leader's problem. He has to solve it one way or another if he fancies himself a leader. One solution of course is doing nothing if the team still pulls through (this would mean lowering his standards so that the problem ceases to be a problem). Another solution would be to get rid of the origin of the problem. Hal seems to be unable to do that as well because he wants to be friends with everybody, so he doesn't kick Ranta out. The last alternative would be to accept Ranta isn't going to be his friend and deal with him accordingly, even if it leads to Ranta's death in some tougher battle. That would be Ranta's own choice as well. An associate's death isn't as bad as a friend's death, though.

You see, my argument is that simple. You added all the frills around it, but that's all I'm saying. What you're doing is setting the bar for a team member dirt low, and setting the bar for a leader ridiculously high.

If you insist on those absurd standards, then whatever.

Leader's bar is always higher. Can't be helped. A team member only needs to mind his own picture, the leader needs to see everybody's picture.

[shinta|hikari]

Nice job ignoring Ranta's dumbassery.

Guess it's whatever then.

[MFauli]

Could everybody fap, calm down, and then proceed to discuss? good

[neflight86]

Ep 11


Like I've said before, I'm a sucker for redemption in stories, and Ranta's was handled well, in my opinion. While one part (of me) doesn't want him to die, another knows it would elevate the tension of the show and at least give us an alternative, complicated mourning compared to Manato. Of course that could only be served if there were any plans to continue this series after next week, which is kind of unlikely.