Rokka no Yuusha: Braves of the Six Flowers

[shinta|hikari]

Adlet ran away because Nacchie would have pawned him if he stayed. Hans didn't reply to his call, so he wasn't there. If he did as you said, he'd already be dead.

It was specifically mentioned that Chamot could somehow sense dead bodies even if they were buried underground. That meant she could more or less sniff out bodies anywhere within the barrier. That's why they hid it inside a corpse, because the smell of death masked the other.

I completely agree with more foreshadowing, but the logic behind the reveal itself was sound, albeit sudden.

EDIT:

Forgot to mention the most important thing.

Flamie = waifu of the year.

Got a boner each time she called Adlet's name, her voice bleeding with concern.

[Munsu]

Adlet ran away because Nacchie would have pawned him if he stayed. Hans didn't reply to his call, so he wasn't there. If he did as you said, he'd already be dead.

It was specifically mentioned that Chamot could somehow sense dead bodies even if they were buried underground. That meant she could more or less sniff out bodies anywhere within the barrier. That's why they hid it inside a corpse, because the smell of death masked the other.

I completely agree with more foreshadowing, but the logic behind the reveal itself was sound, albeit sudden.

EDIT:

Forgot to mention the most important thing.

Flamie = waifu of the year.

Got a boner each time she called Adlet's name, her voice bleeding with concern.

I simply thought that Adlet would've tried to get closer to the temple in case Hans was inside and couldn't hear him or something. Seemed like he didn't get all that close and just went away, and considering that he was the one who could absolve him, I thought the lack of insistence on trying to find Hans where he was most likely to be a bit foolish.

Also, remember he was left with Chamot... so even if Hans didn't answer, there was still a big chance Hans would've been in trouble and knowing Adlet he would've want to help if that was the case.

So in the few moments that Adlet was in the temple, the lack of response is not that good of a reason. At least in the apparent short span of time.

As for the sensing bodies, was that previously known or just going by what was mentioned in this episode? Anyways, I'm not opposed to that happening... what bothered me is how many sudden coincidences started to pile-up right there. Of course, Adlet does mention that "luck" is part of it all, so we can go with that and not over think it.

[shinta|hikari]

Adlet made the logical decision of trying to survive when Hans appeared to not be present. That was all it was. Adlet is heroic but pragmatic. Remember, he left Flamie, who got pawned, to go to the temple and clear his name.

[Munsu]

Adlet made the logical decision of trying to survive when Hans appeared to not be present. That was all it was. Adlet is heroic but pragmatic. Remember, he left Flamie, who got pawned, to go to the temple and clear his name.

Just re-watched that portion, he does stay in the area a bit longer than what I recalled in my first watch. My problem was not with him leaving, but with him seeming to leave too soon. I still think he should've stuck around a bit longer within the protection the columns provided. He was going to be good target to Nachetanya no matter what he did, so to me the important part if maximizing the opportunity of getting in touch with Hans.

If he thought Flemie was going to die he wouldn't have left. With Hans it wasn't really all about rescuing him, but laying eyes on him since it creates another witness in Nachetanya, and that would be enough. Though he seemed to think that Hans was still alive to be good enough for him to move on.

From a logical standpoint, reaching Hans was top priority including his survival. So it's all about timing. Did he stick around long enough to ascertain that chances would be that he wasn't around? On first viewing, I didn't think so. On second viewing, I'll give the benefit of the doubt.

[David75]

I did not count the dark petals on Flamie's hat. There's 8 in total. Adlet mentioned 8 some eps ago. And if dark=dead, that's not good news.I know this is weak, but the corpse in the corpse idea is not that good since we only got back to the fiends corpse on the moment of the reveal so we couldn't check if the big one was there before. Quite unfair to the audience.

[Kraco]

It was specifically mentioned that Chamot could somehow sense dead bodies even if they were buried underground. That meant she could more or less sniff out bodies anywhere within the barrier. That's why they hid it inside a corpse, because the smell of death masked the other.

That means the fiends knew Chamot could do it. In that case they should have taken the saint's corpse outside of the perimeter. If they had time to add that humongous demon corpse among the smaller fiend corpses, they would have had time to remove the saint's existence completely from withing the barrier. Even without any specific skills, one would remember the big one wasn't among the fiends when they were fighting, so it would be alarming to anyone suspecting anything at all. Even if we think there wouldn't have been time and it was only the director's fault it seems like there was, then I'm not sure adding an extra big red flashing sign at the crime scene would be wiser than burying the body. In the first place a kill 'em all, let god sort of 'em out maniac like Chamot wouldn't be looking for a corpse unless Maura told her to do it. And since Maura was so hell bent on killing Adlet, she wouldn't have done it. Although I admit the demons probably never imagined their greatest enemies, the braves, would be a bunch as idiotic as this.

[MasterOfMoogles]

Based on how this episode ended, this is the moment before the reveal where we're supposed to have everything we need to solve the mystery.

I'm still not 100% sure, but I'm thinking Goldov is the most likely suspect at this point.

Adlet and Flamie are definitely not it. Hans is extremely unlikely based on his actions.
That leaves us with Nashe, Maura, Chamot, and Goldov.

Nashe has proven to be pretty crazy, did some super suspicious things in the temple, and overall has been very flippant.
However, it has now been revealed that this plan has a lot of parts that were set up long in advance.
It doesn't seem likely that the sheltered princess would have been able to set all of this up.

Meta argument-wise, she suffers from being "too obvious". Additionally, the story would suffer greatly if she were removed as a character.

Moving on to Chamot. She has the means to do the necessary things and no alibi. However, her actions don't really make sense if she were the 7th. Why be friendly with Hans just now? The best option would have been to actually injure Hans.
Chamot also doesn't seem to have the intelligence level to pull this off.
Additionally, the enemy seems to have been aware of Chamot's abilities and planned around them. Why do this if Chamot is the culprit?

Maura remains very suspicious. If she is the culprit, she is playing off this latest discovery amazingly well, though. I can't think of any great reasons why it couldn't be her. But I can't think of any great reasons why it would be her either.
Meta-wise, she is a great source of exposition for the story's continuation, so killing her would somewhat weaken the cast.

Lastly, we have Goldov.
If I remember correctly, Goldov was missing for like a few months before the events started. This is very sketchy. He is also knowledgeable about the saints, which is an important requirement for pulling off this plan.
Goldov is the first person to touch the altar, where he pulls out the sword immediately. Was this the actual trigger for the trap?
Goldov has potential motives having to do with the princess.
Goldov started the fighting when they were still having discussion time.

Meta-wise, he is a surprising choice since he hasn't done much, and the story loses the least by eliminating him. He has mostly been a non-character the entire show, but has subtly done enough to make him a prime suspect.

So I'm pretty much decided on Goldov.
Anybody else have any theories?

[David75]

For the Goldov theory, we have Flamie's astonishement to the way he blocked that bullet with his forearm.
Is it because she saw a fiend like reaction in that little scratch/hole he has?

[Kraco]

So, does Goldov have a good contingency plan, then? He was the one who pretty much stopped them from killing Adlet this episode when they reached the fiend carcasses, instead insisting they need information. That doesn't sit well with him being the Seventh, assuming the Seventh's goal is to weaken the braves. He would have also known that the place was no coincidence since the Sun Saint's body was right next to them. Of course if the goal wasn't to kill as many braves as possible, then it could be a different matter.

It seems to me that the old idea of the Seventh being the Seventh without knowing it (that is, a tool) would be quite smooth here. If the barrier was really easy to activate (pull the sword out, for example), it could have been done by accident. So, there would be the "Eight" from Adlet's earlier theory somewhere out there. Since we have seen a shapeshifting fiend already, it would be pretty funny if there was a shapeshifter here impersonating one of the braves, or more of them, in turn, when convenient. Although the lack of special powers might prevent that during any battle.

[Ryllharu]

If it is Goldov, I can only guess his motivation is one similar to Adlet's village. While he was travelling, one of the major intelligent fiends approached him or completely overwhelmed him. He may have felt or was convinced that there was no way the heroes could defeat the Demon God this time, and made a deal to assist their plan if they promised to keep Bunny-hime safe and let him have her.

He may not have known all the details of the plan, only what he had to do as part of it.

Otherwise, it is probably Maura, tricked into it somehow. She came off as really stupid this episode. No wonder Chamot likes her, they're both mentally little kids, throwing tantrums all the time. She convinced herself that if it wasn't the most obvious one (Flamie), it had to be the next most obvious one, Adlet. Critical thinking skills aren't her forte.

This whole time the two of them have been manufacturing reasons to justify their choice, refusing to admit they're wrong a second time. The only difference is Chamot is a little more mentally mature and her tantrums are a little more obvious.

[Kraco]

This whole time the two of them have been manufacturing reasons to justify their choice, refusing to admit they're wrong a second time. The only difference is Chamot is a little more mentally mature and her tantrums are a little more obvious.

Chamot? She's a little kid behaving exactly like a little kid with a big power would. She hasn't presented a single sound or even unsound argument, nor opinions of other kinds to speak of. She simply waited until the accusations started flying, and immediately offered to kill Flamie and Adlet with her awesome (in her own opinion) power. The fact Hans was able to drag her away from the temple also speaks for her mental immaturity. It's not that hard to talk a kid into doing something.

Maura is just a stupid adult. I guess that's one sort of immaturity as well, but in reality lots of adults stay stupid until the die.

[Ryllharu]

That's my point.

Maura and Chamot get along so well because they're both children. Maura's just a bigger one, and her hissy fits are less obvious.

Looking back, many of Maura's arguments can be summarized as "Nuh uh!" and then someone else chimes in to back her objection up with some real facts.

[Munsu]

My vote is for Goldov or Nachetanya. Though I'm leaning away from Nachetanya, I still think her hissy fit in the temple is still suspicious as heck, and remembering that scene gives some precendent to her psycho tendencies I hadn't credited recently.

So my vote goes to Goldov at the moment, though there's no real reason for it right now other than process of elimination. I wonder if his protected arm is a clue or if it's a red-herring.

If the goal is to keep the team within the barrier as long as possible, then Goldov protecting Adlet shouldn't be seen as a sign of innocence, particularly with the little details about what happens to the petals upon a Brave's death. Also, being the culprit doesn't necessarily mean you want to kill these people.

All that said, I'm still banking on there being another explanation beyond one of these guys being fake. I do think that if one of them got turned, it was Goldov, and I think part of it was for Nachetanya's sake or for something that he thinks might endear himself to Nachetanya.

With one week to go, I think it's time for everyone to put their vote up for the record. Mine is Goldov.

[NeoCybercoin]

The goddess IS the demon lord and is just fucking with the Brave for fun. Now that would be a plot twist :P

[Buffalobiian]

Maura, just because.

[Edort4]

The ones that tampered with the altar were Adlet, Goldov and Tania. Goldov looks like the most suspicious one at this point, he was the one that took the sword out of the altar saying he was going to deactivate it. Even so I dont think that is a very strong argument.

If they were lied about how the barrier activates, and it was actually the oppossite (just guessing) of what they were told, it was clear that someone would pull the sword out sooner or later thinking that it would deactivate it (the opposite movement of activation they were told) so the 7th actually shouldnt do anything but wait for someone to do it and activate it. Even in the worst case scenario, unbelieveable no one would do/try it, he could pretend to do it, just like Goldov did, but not as the 1st move, that would be pretty stupid.

So basically what im saying is that we know shit. We may even have that the person that activated it didnt even do it on purpose cause we dont know how it really activates/deactivates and the writer can pull any bs explanation about the real way to do it or how it works. It can be activated with thoughts, movements, words, intentions or whatever he wants. It could had been Adlet dropping blood, Tania breaking the tablet, Chamot saying any word inside the temple, Maura, Flamie, Hans by farting.

So... I will wait until they see fit to give me wahtever bs explanation they want. I still believe that the "dream" adlet had in the 1st episode was strange. It looked like fiend tentacles going into his brain. I go with the "he doesnt know he is being used" theory.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm actually hoping it's not a cop-out "There just happens to be seven braves this time" theory.

[Kraco]

I'm actually hoping it's not a cop-out "There just happens to be seven braves this time" theory.

Well, you know, there just happens to be seven. There are seven of them. One should be a bit different, though, but like I said long ago, it would be cool if that person didn't know the difference themselves and was thus a tool. It doesn't mean Adlet wouldn't be able to say a name in the next ep.

[David75]

The sun brave was still alive and her powers were part of the trap. Why is it so important to be part of the six, when you have former ones whose powers you can use ?

[Munsu]

The sun brave was still alive and her powers were part of the trap. Why is it so important to be part of the six, when you have former ones whose powers you can use ?

Wasn't part of it the protection from the poisonous air or such?