Except shounen heroes usually arent part of a military hierachry, and if they are we get scenes where theyīll either get severly punished for acting out of order or have to quit their association.Originally Posted by KrayZ33
Itami just does whatever he wants and thats just dumb and unsatisfying for how unrealistic it is. Thatīs just not how any military structure works. Even a high up general couldnīt behave like Itami.
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
The thing is, the dragon killing isn't an official mission. Glasses dude (and a bunch of random people who dark elf spoke to) wanted Itami to kill it, but no one else in higher command gave them permission or ordered it. It's supposed to be accidental. Thus, Itami cannot get enough people to do the job safely.
@Mfauli - Shounen heroes get away with a lot more bullshit than this just to get the plot moving. Remember the wish granting Nen to cure a certain protagonist of certain death? Dragon balls? Stuff like that happens everywhere. Sometimes, you just have to let these things go to enjoy what happens next, which is a small team of fantasy girls and a ranger beating a fire dragon.
Peace.
Nobody ever tried to, Itami included. The military can only do what the civilian government authorise them to do, like I said a long time ago. But nobody ever asked a single politician if they might go and finish the civilian slaying deranged dragon that's even more infurious because the Japanese troops wounded it. And that lots and lots of people of the other world would ultimately be happy and thus thankful to the Japanese if the thing was removed. Instead the generals just shrug their shoulders and say they don't have a go-ahead to do it. That's like the lowest of all the low level excuses there is (comparable to going to a store and asking a clerk if they have some item, but the clerk would just answer "dunno" and walk away instead of going to the computer terminal to check their selection).
I'm objected to the way this arc is handled because up until now Itami never tried to sort out anything like this like a typical shounen hero. He did go alone with the bishoujo knights, but you can say that even if it was stupid, he still knew everything would be solved the moment they took him to their leader. Now he's alone (or with Rory) going to face the dragon they barely drove away with an extremely lucky RPG shot. Perhaps if he can find the thing sleeping he could put another rocket right in the dragon's face and be done with it. But how likely is that?
Disagreed. He has been doing it repeatedly from the very start. Even Mfauli is complaining how often he does it. To list down a few:
1) Bishoujo knights surrender that you mentioned.
2) Punching the prince.
3) Bringing the girls along everywhere (for the flimsiest of reasons).
4) Disobeying orders left and right but somehow getting away scot-free.
5) Relaxing in an onsen while being hunted.
6) Going out of his way to save enemy citizens and prisoners in the first parts of the story.
7) Letting Shino off without a court martial despite endangering so many lives in their squad in the fort battle.
I'm sure there are others I'm missing. The show basically introduces romantic-comedy/shounen tropes by making excuses even if it conflicts with the military setting (remember Rory sitting on his lap randomly at their first meeting?). It's nothing new. This episode is simply the most extreme in terms of how it changed the entire direction of the story (or at least arc).
Peace.
Thatīs the big problem. On the one hand the entire setting of this anime is the clash between reality and fantasy. On the other hand, breaking military orders in the most irresponsible ways is just too immersion-ruining. None of Itamiīs behavior would be that much of a problem if he was a civilian. Him being part of the military is what makes for all those ... weird scenes.
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
Just don't overthink it. It's a world with bird people and bunny girls.
Peace.
I wasn't really referring to the whole spectrum of problems, some of them being much lesser than others. He has never totally abandoned a mission like he did this time, and disregarded any and all military wisdom by attempting to leave alone to face nigh impossible odds. Taking Rory with him is a step into the right direction, but not a step big enough. The other times he always had a team of Japanese soldiers with him, except for the bishoujo knights case, which was ultimately a diplomatic case since he knew beforehand it would end the way it did. Punching the prince was doing the epitome of what he's supposed to be doing: Defending the Japanese civilians.
What comes to the girls, he has even taken them with him for official reasons, to act as mediators. There's nothing particular strange about it. Though this is the first time he takes them on a purely battle mission.
Punching the prince was rash. What if the prince was an awesome fighter and killed him for trying? What if the prince dodged the first blow and killed the hostage? That decision was not very soldier-like at all. It was totally shounen though. You could basically slap Naruto's face on Itami in that scene and it'd look right.
With the girls, the very fact that he takes all of them around is completely shounen. It's a harem, plain and simple. The reason you mentioned is an excuse, and you know in reality it will never happen. That said, it is a reasonable excuse, and we as viewers are expected to look past minor issues to enjoy what comes after/from it.
That said, his decision this time is beyond rash and tops all of the other things. On that I agree with you. I just wanted to point out that this isn't a new thing. It's how Gate worked from the very start. It just escalated in this episode, especially in contrast to the episode right before it where Itami acted totally ruthless.
Peace.
Wasn't Itami the Japanese equivalent of a Navy Seal or some other mofo? He ought to be able to punch a random prince. Princes outside of shoujo manga aren't likely any close combat experts.
Maybe it's an exaggeration in this show, but I was under an impression Western soldiers in places like Afghanistan and Iraq occasionally used locals as guides and to make things easier with random civilians they encountered.
Sure, but this was too much. It's not like this would have been super serious from the beginning, so you absolutely needed tolerance or understanding, but there's a limit to everything. If this guy starts to solve everything by himself, the whole Japanese military force becomes meaningless. It's like, you know, once of those thirteen in a dozen shounen shows where a single dude saves the whole world when the rest of the 7 billions people are just idling with their hands in their pockets. I'd rather not have that.
About the prince, that's the excuse. The punch isn't something natural for a soldier to do then, but hey! He's a ranger of some sort, so he can do whatever he wants. There's a reason, but it's an excuse. And please don't forget that the prince is a huge guy. If this were more realistic, Itami would've been beaten.
About the guides, soldiers don't bring along a friggin harem. The harem is the unrealistic part. You don't need three girls as guides, especially if one of them is a logical bilingual mage (the only one you need). You can cite another reason the show gave here, but it doesn't change the fact that those are excuses. It was not done to be realistic. The harem exists FOR the harem, and it's not a natural development in that situation.
I understand and even agree to what you're saying. I just corrected you when you said this kind of thing wasn't happening before. It was. If this recent event went over your tolerance level, that's completely fine. That doesn't change the fact that this story had shounen tropes, including Itami acting like a shounen hero, all over it from the start, usually at the expense of realism.
Peace.
His "harem" was a representative of local humans and mages, a representative of elves (non-human humanoid), and a revered religious figure. He would have still needed one of the animal ears girls to make sure he covered as many bases as possible and assure the other party that he wasn't favouring anyone. But then again, they mainly dealt with the empire where everyone but humans were second class people, so the elf probably works for the animal ears as well. Like you said, this show is plenty shounen as it is, but you should still see also other attributes than simply the characters' boobs.
Uh sure, I never said I didn't.
Peace.
whatExcept shounen heroes usually arent part of a military hierachry,?
episode 16 is out
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alright, ive only watched half the ep so far, but the bullshit keeps coming and im so angry right now that I have to start typing so to not forget about it later.
First of all, when Yanagida reports to his higher-up and is asked "why is Itami doing that?", his reply is "because heīs an idiot", delivered in typical "well, you cant help it, can you"-manner. W T F?! This is not how any military in the world works! If I was a soldier, this anime would make me go out and kill some democrats. It is SO infuriating how this anime can never decide if it is based on the clash between fantasy and reality, or if itīs just standard fare and all the military stuff is nothin but fascade. People like Kraco here keep defending this enemy, how Itami and the military make sense and whatsoever, but THIS is not correct. In the military, any military, you donīt explain/excuse odd behavior with a "because heīs an idiot *smile*" reply. God, is this shit dumb.
Then we have the spy bunny girl, who is SO devote to her queen that she cannot even kill a single weak girl. Instead, she gets caught in a typical Naruto-esque speech and listens and listens and listens to this girl she couldnīt care any less. It makes no sense for her to have any qualm offing Noriko - that is what she has been trained, raised for!
Which brings us to the next fucked up bullshit: The tavern staff KNEW about her being a spy!!1 The tavern owner even thinks that heīs in trouble, but no, the JSDF soldier says "nah, nah, you have nothing to do with her, right? Go on." BULL FUCKING SHIT! If he KNEW that she was a spy, he actively helped her in her anti-JSDF mission. Not only could he and the rest of the staff prevented the attempted murder, who knows what she passed to her queen in terms of information?
This anime has a severe problem portaying serious matters. In a scenario such as this, not everything can be happy-go-lucky, thatīs not how it works. People are killed, people are seriously punished, and before all, people do their duty and not what they enjoy doing.
Oh, I almost forgot the 4th point of complaint, although it is okay per se: So Yanagida wants the rights to all ressources that arenīt currently needed by the king guyīs folk. FUCKING LOL. That was maybe the most sinister thing being done by the JSDF in the entire series! Itīs the equivalent to "Hey, you lucky native inhabitants of this unknown island, weīre giving you these fantastic, shiny glass pearls in exchange for all the useless metal you have there!"
I REALLY want a major character who then becomes a mainstay to point out that the JSDF is not "the good guys". I want that to happen SO badly! They are imperialists, they are conquerers. Nothing more.
Now on to the second half, eww...
Edit:
oh god, is this show trolling me?!
One of the pilots: "Iīd wish we had those weapons with us that could actually damage the dragon." -____________________-
Drop dead, please. Oh wait, thatīs what he almost did, when he kamikazeīd the dragon. Fucking idiot.
And Itami is a master therapist. So instead of telling Tuka about her dead father OR having her take revenge, HE COMBINES BOTH! In a lifethreatening situation with a Great Dragon about 30 meters away, he tells her that he lied to her all those couple days, that he is not her dad, that her real dad is dead. And then forces her to fire that bazooka. There are not enough "wtf"s to be given here. Wahhhhh!
And Itamiīs fighting strategy here reveals what a dumb asshole he is. Itīs exactly how I predicted: He throws Rory against the dragon, because there IS nobody else who could do anything against it.
Last edited by MFauli; Fri, 01-29-2016 at 02:22 PM.
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
Haha, you need to drink a few shots to calm down, MFauli. Also, you don't need to teach me about the military. I've served about 12 months in the uniform.
I liked this episode more than the previous, largely due to the fact the generalissimo ordered all those troops moving to gauge the dragon situation. I guess he merely needed an excuse and the national hero Itami provided it. In the first place it's better to learn about it this way than to have it suddenly ambush some of their troops out there, let alone civilians if they really want to pump oil. Of course it helps they have now a formal approval from the sovereign of the land where the dragon abides. This isn't anything that fancy for the armed forces currently as long as they are merely hunting the dragon, that is, a dangerous animal and not getting into any diplomatic trouble, for which they would need all sorts of instructions from the politicians.
Looks like the warrior bunny princess tried to chew much more than her pretty but foul mouth was capable of, not unlike many other denizens of that land who attempted to mess with the Japanese. Bunnies would be better off being bunnies in any case. Delilah didn't really have what it takes to be a cold-blooded assassin and murderer. She was much better singing in the streets to attract customers. I hope she survives and somehow hits it off with Yanagida. It looks like he really didn't want to shoot her.
Itami is still a fool, though, that much is true. It's quite arrogant of him to think he can afford to mess around while facing the dragon.
That dragon therapy scene was the height of retardation. Why couldn't Itami just get Tuuka to a proper psychiatrist..? I really don't see the point of this revenge subplot. If the author wanted Itami's Angels to fight the dragon, he could've just set them up for an ambush or something simpler.
And what the hell was Delilah doing after stabbing Yanagida? She actually stood there and waited to be shot for some inexplicable reason, instead of, uhm, trying to escape?
I hate to say it, but this show really went to nonsense pretty fast. I'm fine with minor plausability issues here and there, but this time, the entire basis of the arc is bullshit. You don't cure mental disorders by making an amateur shoot an RPG in the midst of a life or death battle.
Peace.
I dunno. I felt really bad for Delilah, who has been one of my more preferred minor characters, even moreso now that we know so much more about her. Turns out she's not just a cute waitress spy (which we knew from season 1), she's actually a noble badass warrior-spy.
Her situation is quite complicated. She despises Tyuule for surrendering to the enemy that got all their people killed anyway. Moreover, Tyuule knows that Delilah hates her, and took a sick pleasure in secretly ordering Delilah to kill Noriko. It was only right before it all went to shit that we also discovered that Delilah didn't know Tyuule is still alive. This changes things substantially for Delilah. She might actually be the best person for resolving this situation, since she can identify Tyuule as the manipulative bitch that she is.
Delilah stood and got shot because she knew she was otherwise dead anyway. She's not a slimy bitch like Tyuule. Delilah has pride.
I loved that Japan has at least half-foiled Tyuule's plan without her knowing it, just because of fingerprints. It took them no time at all to determine that someone is trying to frame the Empire with these bullshit orders that Delilah received, and that the prime suspect is someone around Zozal, and not the idiot prince himself.
That makes no sense. She stabbed Yanagida in an act of desperation. Why not try to take a few more with her instead of standing there for no reason? Standing while holding her blade (instead of sticking it in deeper or making a larger cut) literally served no purpose. It was probably just bad direction, and it was supposed to have happened in like a split second or something. This show is notorious for that.
Peace.
Because she likes Alnus Hill and the people that occupy it? She reacted, and then stopped once she pierced him. She could have skewered him completely, but didn't. Yanagida shot first. They showed no sign that they recognized her until they were both on the ground (and later in surgery).
Maybe it is bad direction like you say. This is the anime, not the novels, so we have no idea what is going through either of their heads when this happened. We can only go on what we've seen.
She could not. Thereīs nothing that shows her stopping willingly. She was desperate and tried to kill Yanagida. But was too incompetent for that.
Oh, and what I wanted to say about the bunny queen: LOL. As much as sheīs telling herself that itīs allllll a plan for ultimate revenge - letting yourself get fucked by your worst enemy will always be humiliating, even after youīve tortured and killed the prince. Dumb bitch
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
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