looks like frieza is going to give goku some energy like he did for frieza on namek
thats cute and all but it would make more sense if one of the androids with their infinity energy did it instead. unless their energy is somehow incompatible.
looks like frieza is going to give goku some energy like he did for frieza on namek
thats cute and all but it would make more sense if one of the androids with their infinity energy did it instead. unless their energy is somehow incompatible.
I'll use whatever the fuck Funimation says it is. Because I want people that only watch the dub to know what the fuck I'm talking about when I reference something.Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
If Funimation says it's going to be Ultra Instinct instead of Egoism Essential Point, then I'm going to use Ultra Instinct.
After this weeks translation, I don't know if CR (Crunchy Roll) can be trusted. :/
So I guess then in your case you'll be sticking with Migatte no Gokui while you wait for better subs next week, while DEX will be going with Ultra Instinct regardless of its correctness, because Funimation calls the shots.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
Example needed? most of these techniques are pretty clear cut in what they do.
You cannot hope to build a better world without improving the individuals. To that end each of us must work for his own improvement, and at the same time share a general responsibility for all humanity, our particular duty being to aid those to whom we think we can be most useful. -Marie Curie
You completely gloss over King Kai's fist? It's a wrong translation.
@Buffalobian
No I will still most likely watch since waiting is not one of my traits. Be nice if they actually did a proper translation. To me whoever did the translation does not quite understand Japanese to English very well.
If they can't translate properly, then don't translate. Leave the phrase as is. Most of us know without the wrong translation is anyway without an explanation from Crunchy Roll.
@DarthenderX
I Know in one of the translated leaks (NO errors) Goku's new form is not a new form but the mastery of perfect self-movement. Which to me makes more sense based on what happened and Whis explanation when he was training Goku and Vegeta to move without thinking. To me that is what happened against Jiren. That Tug of war with Jiren and the Spirit Bomb allowed Goku to break the shell and access that hidden talent. At least that is how it makes sense to me.
Ultra Instinct just feels out of place.
Why would you call it wrong? Yes, they subbed out the term "Realm" for "Kai", but that's mainly because everyone knows thingo as King Kai.
King Kai's Fist = Fist of King Kai. Not the literal fist (in case that needs clarification), but the combat technique devised by King Kai. It's actually really good at describing what it is. Example: Fist of the North Star. (Sounds cool, only sightly less accurate than Fist of the North Dipper Star).
The same with Ultra Instinct. It captures the idea of the technique quite well. I don't know enough Japanese to be 100% correct at this, but the term means the Essence/Epitome of self-movement. Or 'mastery', as you say, is also correct. If you wanted a pretty term, Ultra Instinct does pretty well. An alternative may be Perfected Reflexes, to highlight the lack of upper motor neuron input.
What makes Ultra Instinct sound slightly strange, is that the term "instinct" in English is something one is born with. You don't "acquire" instincts. Some people will call "gut feeling" instinct, but that's not exactly the same thing, since "gut feeling" would be a combination of instinct + experience.
All that said however, reflexes in its strict biological meaning is also something that you're born with, and can not be consciously enhanced. /shrug.
Last edited by Buffalobiian; Tue, 10-10-2017 at 07:04 PM.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
Wrong in what way? King Kai Fist is a technique made by King Kai, the message is not lost, you don't normally do literal translations, you want to send a message.
You cannot hope to build a better world without improving the individuals. To that end each of us must work for his own improvement, and at the same time share a general responsibility for all humanity, our particular duty being to aid those to whom we think we can be most useful. -Marie Curie
That just means it's a technique like the Kaioken, rather than a transformation like Super Saiyan.
But the distinction between those two things is largely irrelevant, because they both serve the same purpose. It's a thing he does that, rather than being some kind of attack, it just makes all his other attacks stronger/faster/better while he's using it. Until it runs out because he's out of energy or his body can't take it any more.
Kaioken is this. Super Saiyan is this. God-ki is this. And now Ultra Instinct is the new this.
Well, for one thing, it's not a fist. Or any kind of strike at all. It's a full body aura powerup that doesn't involve punching in any way.
Last edited by DarthEnderX; Wed, 10-11-2017 at 12:56 AM.
The proper translation is World's fist.... I am not being picky but Crunchy Roll fucked up with the translation ok? Why can't you seen to acknowledge they fucked up? Again, Kaio is actually a surname in Japan with no actual meaning. If you really want to be technical with how they translate. The surname part actually makes sense, considering they are called "West, South, East and North Kai(o). That's splitting hairs though to win an argument based on facts.
So do we really need Crunchy Roll to wrongly translate attack names or phrases? No we do not. Do we need people like you to defend their wrongly translated words? No we do not. The translations might be convenient for you but they are a nuisance if done wrong.
@DarthEnderX
It's not a technique either, it's a state of being. Goku reached it and now it also means every other person in the DB universe can obtain it too. Aside from Zeno, Goku now has Deus Ex Machina powers. Powers that even the lowliest of scum can onbtain in an instant now. They would have been better off to give Goku another Saiyan transformation instead of this debacle.
You keep saying that, but where the fuck are you getting it?
They clearly stated that even the gods have difficulty using that power.
What makes you think that just because Goku has it everyone else is going to get it? Does everyone else know Kaioken yet? Or Instant Transmission?
You mean the debacle where someone besides Goku might not be totally useless for once? You're pissed off because they might do something to address one of the WORST things about Dragon Ball? Eat shit dude.
@Shadowskill: Kaioken (界王拳) does not mean World's Fist. I made a very detailed post at #1215 breaking down why this is, and how it adds up to being Fist of King Kai (where Kai = realm/world).
界=Kai=Realm/world
王=Ou=King
拳=Ken=Fist.
It doesn't get much clearer than this.
If you image-search 界王 (Kai ou), you get DBZ pictures of the Kais. Likewise if I do a text search. Meanwhile I can't find support for your insistence that it refers to little more than a Japanese surname.
That is true, but the name "Fist" is in the name.. so there's not much you can do about that one. If King Kai wants to call his aura technique Fist of King Kai then so be it.
As for Migatte no Gokui not being a genetically exclusive technique? I really don't care. Goku is the strongest Saiyan around. How are Whis and the others supposed to teach him new things anyway if all he does from now on is unlock newer Saiyan powers. Unlocking a power previously exclusive to the Gods - now that's impressive.
And anyone can perform the ritual with the old Grand Kai to make themselves Awakened like Gohan right? Look at the status quo: that's an even less used technique than SSB.
Last edited by Buffalobiian; Wed, 10-11-2017 at 04:47 AM.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
Where do you get Ou from? Last I checked it is Kaio Ken in both English and Japanese? Some new fanslation going on? I have not seen Kai-Ou-Ken anywhere on the interwebs
I think it's "O", same as Zen-O-Sama (I think some people use Ou, but for DB specifically just uses O?), his point still stands though.
The bigger question is where do you get the "world's fist" from, because I've never heard it anywhere ever.
Last edited by UChessmaster; Wed, 10-11-2017 at 10:47 AM.
You cannot hope to build a better world without improving the individuals. To that end each of us must work for his own improvement, and at the same time share a general responsibility for all humanity, our particular duty being to aid those to whom we think we can be most useful. -Marie Curie
王 (おう) means king and is pronounce "ou" phonetically. It's a long, drawn out version of "o". In other words, "ō".
Kaioken is the English "romanji" of the Japanese 界王拳. One should refer back to native script when translating.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
I'm... 43% sure fist can be referred to as a style/technique/the way you fight (and thus move your fists), that's why we also have a Taiyoken, even though there's no fists involved.
You cannot hope to build a better world without improving the individuals. To that end each of us must work for his own improvement, and at the same time share a general responsibility for all humanity, our particular duty being to aid those to whom we think we can be most useful. -Marie Curie
Sure, in Japanese. I'm just saying, the literal translation doesn't serve as a very good description in English. We generally don't refer to an entire fighting style as a "fist".
As opposed to, say, Ansatsuken(Assassin's Fist) from Street Fighter, which is Ryu and Ken's fighting style. But back in the day ended up being translated to "shotokan karate" which is a real karate style, but not what they actually used.
Now adays Capcom just calls it Ansatsuken everywhere.
But then why not use Shotokan Karate since that's what Capcom used first, and older players will be confused with the new term! Shame on Capcom for confusing their most loyal playerbase!
edit:
@Shadowskill - Supplementing earlier, Goku = 悟空.悟 = enlightenment and 空 = emptiness. While the phonetics "Go" and "Ku" can mean 5-9, they don't - because the kanji themselves have actual, different meaning. 空 is also not 'sky' in this case, because the character named Son Goku (孫悟空) comes from the Chinese novel Journey to the West - where the Buddhist priest gives this name upon the Monkey King hoping he'd enlighten to emptiness.
Last edited by Buffalobiian; Wed, 10-11-2017 at 07:37 PM. Reason: adding further translations
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
Can we just agree that we have all used Kaioken since the beginning and only now when they use a literal translation we are up in arms? I think if we had this translation for the past 20+ years and then heard Kaioken, would you be up in arms?
That's for DEX. Shadow's main argument is that the translations get it wrong - but it isn't actually wrong.
DEX may, because that's ruining convention above all else for him. I have yet to hear about how he feels about Shotokan Karate now becoming Ansatsuken.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
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