Actually, I just looked up the timeline, and the movie where he debuted actually takes place before Super. So if Gogeta actually exists in this canon, Goku and Vegeta should already know how to do it.
I like how the earrings also make fusion clothes. Whereas the Fusion Dance always just has them wearing that genie outfit.Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
Ugh, didnt like ep 65 too much. Power levels are too fucked up by now. So Zamasu should be significantly more powerfuly than Vegeta and Son Goku now, but those still manage to block his attacks.
Also, fuck this shit. For a moment I expected Trunks to die. Would have finally added some drama :/ This is what´s been missing in this arc. NOBODY dies. Yeah, some random civilian died this episode ... and nobody cared, lol. But none of the characters we care about die. There´s Zamasu, that super powerful god, and nobody dies. And why does he not blow up earth by sneezing? Even a dying Freezer could blow up earth in an instant. FFS, even Mutenroshi could do that, considering he blew up the moon.
And something I keep wondering. In the very beginning, Goku had a rather close fight with Beerus. Yeah, Beerus had reserves hidden, but still. Now, Vegeta and Goku have gotten significantly stronger and they´re fighting Zamasu, who, despite having his energy attacks blocked, is overwhelmingly stronger. Does that mean Vegeta and Goku are now closer to/above Beerus in terms of power?
And LOL, when Goku and Beerus were fighting, the universe was about to tear apart from their clashes. Now they´re fighting aomebody stronger and no such risk? Ok.
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
Based on your comments, I think I finally figured DB Super out.
It's a parody.
Peace.
goku and vegeta had been training the SSGod mode and now are able to fight with that power without being a risk to the whole universe where as when goku just got the power he was all over the place releasing god ki... not that hard to explain it from nothing...
also the moment when trunks and vegeta were able to hold back zamazu together with the galick gun remained me of the gohan + goku final kamehameha against cell which was cool as fuck... until goku just used kamehameha alone to hold zamasu back too...
regarding the fusion dance... it was goku that teached gohan and trunks the dance so there is no way he doesnt know how to fusion that way... at the same time we got to remember that to actually do the fusion dance you actually need time to prep... from what i remember both ki must be at the same level AND you need to do the ridiculous dance AND there is a timeout for the fusion of about 30 minutes which is definitely not enough for a season finale xD...
Eh, it's plenty. Gogeta just needs to by enough time for Bulma to go back in time, get the tags for the Mafuba jar, and come back. And then right after the fusion runs out and Zamasu is about to kill them, Trunks Mafuba's him into the jar.
I mean, he's still immortal, so even if Vegeto can kick his ass, it's not going to solve the problem.
Yeah, no, I hold firm onto my "theory". We´ve seen in this episode how Zamasu made it a big deal that nobody could even touch him. Next episode, somebody WILL touch him and he´ll notice that his body doesn´t auto-regenerate. That´s when he realizes "oh no, due to the fusion I´m no longer immortal!".
Et voila!
Zamasu will still be able to generate, but now it consumes huge chunks of his KI. Thus, getting wounded makes him weaker for good. Gogeta will probably happen, because once Zamasu realizes that he´s vulnerable, he´ll stop messing around. Gogeta then keeps damaging Zamasu, making him weaker and weaker. Eventually, the 30 minutes fusion time limit is up. But Zamasu is already significantly weakened. Trunks gets another show at Zamasu, beating him to the brink of death. Zamasu does some bs-talk, Trunks lets his guard down and Zamasu can land a fatal blow on Trunks. Zamasu, now barely able to hover, grins and swears that once he´s gathered energy, he´ll return to earth and finish the Zero Ningen Plan. As he begins to fly skywards, the screen goes red, implying a slice. It´s Yajirobe, who sneaked up on Zamasu and delivers a fatal blow with his sword. Zamasu falls to the ground, looks at Yajirobe with eyes filled of hatred. As Yajirobe walks up to deal the final blow, he shouts towards Son Goku, who´s unable to move and lying elsewhere on the ground: "Sorry, Goku-san, but I don´t think this one will turn to the good side!", and WOOSH!, Zamasu is dead, killed by human.
After much celebration, the powerlessness of the humans of earth will trigger the next arc: Make humans strong again! It´ll revolve around that fact that cross-bred saiyajin like Trunks, Gohan and Goten are much more powerful than pure saiyajin even without proper training. Which will lead to the discovery of the true strength of humans, re-introducing Kuririn into active duty!!!1
We´ll then have a two-split arc that´s mainly about the promised tournament between all the universes´ strongest fighters and a training arc, where Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Yamchu are training under Beerus (maybe Chaozu will be training with Whis to improve passive abilities like transportation, telekinesis and such). While Goku, Vegeta and Gohan (who got motivated from Trunk´s fate) participate in the inter-universal tournament, a new danger approaches earth. Because it´s forbidden for Goku and Co. to leave during the tournament, it´s up to the humans and Piccolo and Boo to protect earth. And after a gruesome fight, they prevail! Lead by Kuririn, earth manages its first victory without the help of saiyajin. Only to find out that the enemy they defeated was only some sort of scout of a larger enemy fleet approaching. That´s when Kuririn and Co. enter a training arc, leading into a desperate fight against an overwhelming enemy (similar to when they fought Vegeta and Nappa), hoping for Goku to come back.
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
That'll be shit writing if that's the case, because that's SPECIFICALLY not how fusion has been explained to work in the past.
Fusion doesn't make you weaker. Even if you fuse with someone weaker than you.
Wishful thinking unfortunately.
This was my thought exactly. I hate seeing Goku completely outclass Vegeta (because I'm a Vegeta fan), especially when it's done implicitly.
When we have Vegeto around, there's no reason for Gogeta to happen.
I wouldn't be so sure. Fusion is supposed to increase your power exponentially right? That's why dropping a bit of power doesn't matter. If Goku fused with Mr Satan however, I wouldn't be surprised at the result being weaker than Goku by default.
Also, this is strictly about power levels. Immortality is an attribute, not a power level. I don't think there's a rule that you get the best attributes of both and the weaknesses of none. Losing immortality because you've fused is a pretty legit way of fucking over Zamatsu.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
I do think he is no longer immortal. Or perhaps only a part of him would regenerate now since he basically mixed bodies together. It's like you said, it's an attribute. SSJ4 Gogeta for example was insanely strong but did not take anything serious and liked playing around. That is not a good attribute to have. Hell, look at Gotenks. He basically has Trunk's personality only enhanced. Again, not a good trait.
It's not that strange to see Vegeta and Trunks hold their own against that blast. Goku was stronger than Zamasu and Vegeta overpowered Black. Black was the stronger of the two so yeah he did fuse with a weaker Zamasu.
I could understand him not getting stronger at all, but not weaker.
Like I said, Fusion does not make you into a middle-ground of the two people you fuse together.
If one of them immediately recovers from injury due to being immortal, the resulting fusion shouldn't be MORE susceptible to damage than one of the originals.
I never said middle ground. How are you understanding the maths?
I'm thinking of something like this:
Goku: 5K
Vegeta: 3K
Fusion = matched power level ^2
Therefore Gogeta = 3000^2 = 9M
---------------------------
Goku = 5K
Mr Satan = 70
Goku/Satan Fusion = 70 ^2 = 4900.
The point is that if you're understand the equation to start with the shared power level as its base calculation, then it could be possible to end up with a weaker individual.
Allow me to put it this way: Goku and Mr Satan fusing might as well be 2x Mr Satans fusing. That's how matching power levels matter. If your power is similar enough, fusion is worth the tradeoff. Drastic differences wouldn't be worth it.
Example 2:
Gotenks is essentially 2xGoten fusion. Trunks dropping his power level is worthwhile because Gotenks is stronger than Trunks+Goten in addition.
That's my understanding of Fusion.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
>implying that math works for dragon ball power ups...
even if it did so we dont really know the correct equation...
My head hurts ...
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
That's nice. But, again, not how fusion works. Unless they've decided to retcon it.
So explain to me why Fusion requires matched power levels?
Or rather, tell me how you think fusion works.
I don't even remotely expect the maths to be correct in my previous post. It's there to illustrate a point: that if the matched power level is low enough you can create a weaker being.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
I remember that one time Vegeta and Goku said, before using the potara earrings, that they shouldn´t fuse while being super saiyajins, cause then they wouldn´t be able to undo the super saiyajin and burn out rather quickly, dying. So they returned to normal, fusioned, the went to SSJ again.
If that is true, then I´d also agree that a fusion CAN be weaker than the individuals prior to it. If Mr Satan has power level 300, Goku has power level 3000000000000, then by going down to 300 himself, he has no way of reaching the 3000000000000 afterwards. The fusion body wouldn´t be capable of withstanding that much of a power difference.
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
I believe only the Fusion Dance version has that requirement.
I can do better than that, I can tell you what the official databook says about Potara Fusion.
"The resulting fusion will have the power of both fusees multiplied by each other."
Which means unless Satan's power level is less than 1(which it's not), it literally CAN'T make Goku's power level DROP by fusing with him.
I don't see how the first thing makes them somehow weaker.
For all you know, the fusion of two Super Saiyans would be even MORE powerful than the fusion of two Saiyans that then go Super Saiyan. The problem was not that it's weaker, it's that fusion wouldn't be able to turn off Super Saiyan, and that the strain of being constantly Super Saiyan would eventually kill them.
In fact, Fusion Zamasu would have that exact problem because Black was Super Saiyan Rose when they fused. But he's Immortal, so it's not going to be an issue for him.
Last edited by DarthEnderX; Wed, 11-09-2016 at 10:59 AM.
Unless the very fact that he fused with a transformed Black could be part of his undoing as well. I mean, if he starts to regenerate to counter the strain from the transformation.....it'd be like an auto immune illness and he'd just tear himself apart.
When I say "Fusion", I strictly mean Fusion Dance. Earing fusion has no requirements, no base powerlevel matching, and thus no need for me to say that the final product will be weak.
I do not doubt that Earing Fusion would get you a stronger being. I do doubt that for Dance fusion. This is solely based on the fact that
1) You can stuff it up (and have fat/thin/weak shit) and
2) You need to lower your power to match.
So let's do this again DEX: Tell me how you think Fusion Dance works?
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
its weird that you yourself pointed out the requirement of 2 beings having the same power level to be able use the fusion dance.
going by that logic satan and goku would never be able to do the fusion dance, unless goku himself controlled his ki to be of power level 1 (as we said satan has)
so yeah, if satan and goku with reduced ki level (to match satan's) did the fusion dance it would then for sure be weaker than goku by himself because that fusion was of 2 beings with a power level of 1.
anyway the power levels are already fucked up in super so there is no real reason to discuss the potential power level of any character because right now if a character needs to be able to do something of importance then he will be able to do so because the writes decided to do so... just like trunks is able to fight enemies that even SSB is not always able to hold up
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