Dragon Ball Super

[MFauli]

Man, they really need to find a way to make fights exciting again. This was all so anti-climatic:

- Piccolo was killed, Gohan went berserk. Was then revived off-screen, lol.
- earth is destroyed. In the very second afterwards Whis offers them to undo it. He does. The end. Ok.

And for fuck´s sake, how slow is Goku?! When he re-appeared in the past, Vegeta and Freezer were still talking. Goku needs, what, 0.000001 seconds to cover that distance? Instead he charges a kamehameha forever.

And this just doesnt make sense. Why would puny Freezer have enough energy to kill Gohan, Goten, Trunks and Boo with his earth destruction? That´s just bullshit. (and if you want to make it about space: Boo)

Seeing Gohan asking Piccolo for training was indeed the best part of all of this. Just makes you wonder: Will he be as half-hearted of a fighter as he´s always been? And lol, what can Piccolo teach him?!

[NeoCybercoin]

Piccolo can put him back into shape but that's it. After that he'd need to find someone else to actually go full force against but nobody like that around.

[DarthEnderX]

- Piccolo was killed, Gohan went berserk. Was then revived off-screen, lol.
- earth is destroyed. In the very second afterwards Whis offers them to undo it. He does. The end. Ok.

Welcome to every Dragon Ball fight ever.

And for fuck´s sake, how slow is Goku?! When he re-appeared in the past, Vegeta and Freezer were still talking. Goku needs, what, 0.000001 seconds to cover that distance? Instead he charges a kamehameha forever.

I know right? He actually took LONGER to kill Freeza after they rewound time than Vegeta was taking the first time around. Freeza should have easily been able to just destroy the planet again.

The least they could have done was have him teleport to Freeza and knock him into the air so that he had time to charge the Kamehameha.

Piccolo can put him back into shape but that's it. After that he'd need to find someone else to actually go full force against but nobody like that around.

Other than, you know, the other two godly powerful Saiyans that are also always training.

[MFauli]

Welcome to every Dragon Ball fight ever.

Not true.
Dragon Ball made sure to always have it be somehow dramatic, like:

- when Yamcha died against Nappa, which was his second death. No more reviving
- the above raised tension in all of the upcoming battles on Namek
- even after finding out how the Namekian Dragon Balls weren´t limiting revivals, the Wise Namekian died and the Dragon Balls lost their power. It took Dende to got those to work again, but only after defeating Freezer
- when Cell threatened to kill everybody, well, his plan was complete annihilation of the human race. Nobody there to revive anybody
- same with Boo

In the case of Golden Freezer, so what if he blew up earth? Disregarding that he shouldn´t have been able to, we still had many of the heroes be alive. Goku, Kuririn, Gohan, Bulma and then some. They´d just have found a way to revive everybody again. And with how easy it was to defeat Golden Freezer, there never was a feeling of "omg, this is so dramatic, they´re all actually in danger!!1".

[DarthEnderX]

- when Yamcha died against Nappa, which was his second death. No more reviving

But then they revived him.

- the above raised tension in all of the upcoming battles on Namek

And they killed everyone on the planet then blew it up.

And then they brought everyone back.

- even after finding out how the Namekian Dragon Balls weren´t limiting revivals, the Wise Namekian died and the Dragon Balls lost their power. It took Dende to got those to work again, but only after defeating Freezer

Oh! So they had to wait until the end of the arc to bring everyone back.

Just like here.

- when Cell threatened to kill everybody, well, his plan was complete annihilation of the human race. Nobody there to revive anybody

- same with Boo

Just like EVERY SINGLE ARC!

The whole point is, THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES IN DRAGON BALL! Anyone that seriously watches a new arc after all this time and is still going "Oh no! This time they really WON'T be able to save everyone!" is a complete dipshit.

Disregarding that he shouldn´t have been able to

Why shouldn't Freeza have been able to destroy the planet? He blew up Namek, and now he's far more powerful.

[MFauli]

But then they revived him..

The point is they didn´t know they´d be able to at this point. Come on, don´t be intentionally dense :/

[DarthEnderX]

The point is they didn´t know they´d be able to at this point. Come on, don´t be intentionally dense :/

Yes, but you aren't AT that point anymore are you?

Anyone who's still expecting tension by the time they get to the Boo arc is stupid. If you're still hoping tension even NOW, then I don't know what to tell you man.

[MFauli]

Yes, I felt tension during the Boo-saga, because Boo was a serious threat at that point. Freezer, no matter how hard he trains, is not. Beerus was, although it wasn´t presented dramatic enough.

Presentation is what makes this anime lose tension atm. When random space guys keep coming and earth can be destroyed this easily, everything loses "weight"/importance. Things need to become dangerous/threatening again. Like when Kuririn was first killed by old Piccolo. That scene when young Goku returns to the tournament, only to find his friend dead on the ground, was such a shock. We even knew about the Dragon Ball´s abilities at that point, but we also knew that old Piccolo was seemingly way too powerful for Goku to defeat him. That´s what created tension, what made it all exciting.

Fighting golden Freezer was never exciting, because why would we expect the Saiyajin God to lose against an upgraded version of puny little Freezer, who back then couldnt even defeat SSJ1?

I hope the upcomin arc somehow solves that problem and raises the stakes for everybody involved, without convenient Dragon Ball-use or time travel.

[DarthEnderX]

Yes, I felt tension during the Boo-saga, because Boo was a serious threat at that point.

If you thought that, you are dumb.

The only way a villain can ever be a thread in DB at this point is if they seriously kill everyone, and that is NEVER going to happen.

The bad guy is always going to lose, and after they do, everyone they killed will be brought back. Thinking otherwise is retarded.

[MFauli]

Lol, now youre being obtuse for the sake of being so. Yes, the heroes will always win in shounen series. But it matters how they win. And in Dragon Ball Super, there is no tension at all about that.

The only way a villain can ever be a thread in DB at this point is if they seriously kill everyone, and that is NEVER going to happen.

That´s literally what Boo did, after the fat Boo separated from the thin one.

[DarthEnderX]

Yes, the heroes will always win in shounen series.

Yes, but a lot of other shounen series still have stakes and consequences.

Dragon Ball doesn't, and hasn't for ages. And expecting it to now is just ridiculous.

And in Dragon Ball Super, there is no tension at all about that.

And I'm saying, there was no tension in the latter half of Dragon Ball Z either.

That´s literally what Boo did, after the fat Boo separated from the thin one.

Then why is everyone alive at the end?

Or right, because he DIDN'T kill everyone. And the ones he didn't kill, ended up beating him, then wishing everyone back to life.

[MFauli]

And I'm saying, there was no tension in the latter half of Dragon Ball Z either.

I´m sorry to say that it isnt up to you to tell me how I felt about it back then

Then why is everyone alive at the end?

Or right, because he DIDN'T kill everyone. And the ones he didn't kill, ended up beating him, then wishing everyone back to life.

The difference being: Back then Goku and everybody else were the underdogs. They were significantly outpowered by Boo, without any instant option to become stronger (only options that might put them equal, but even then they didn´t know how to deal with Boo´s regeneration). ALSO, back then it felt as if the earth´s Dragonballs were the only way to fix things. With all the god-stuff now it feels like you just have to find the right person and everything is fine again.

I will, however, point out that one big part of the fault of a lack of tension lies on Goku´s attitude. That goofball just doesn´t take ANYTHING seriously anymore. With either his fight against Beerus or Freezer, he only cared about the ongoing fight. It´s like saving the world is a distant after-thought to him. That´s what´s wrong. And very ironic: The heroes themselves have realized, just how we have, that it doesn´t really matter if somebody dies or not. There´s options for reviving, and even if not, there´s a nice, cozy afterworld.

This needs a fix. And tbh there IS one: When Vegeta returned to earth as part of his "one day" clause when he was dead, it was explained that somebody who dies during being dead, ceases to exist completely. That´s a truly terrifying thing! Make use of THAT. Somehow put everybody into a state where dying means being "gone" for real.
Of course, I wouldn´t be against them finding a way to ressurect even those victims, but it could be tied to another dramatic adventure.

[DarthEnderX]

I will, however, point out that one big part of the fault of a lack of tension lies on Goku´s attitude. That goofball just doesn´t take ANYTHING seriously anymore. With either his fight against Beerus or Freezer, he only cared about the ongoing fight. It´s like saving the world is a distant after-thought to him.

I'll agree with this. But I'm curious if it's not just the voice that's doing it for me.

I watched all of DBZ dubbed, and I'm watching this subbed, and I can't tell if maybe it's just Goku's goofy Japanese voice that makes it SEEM like he doesn't care, or if he really doesn't care.

[shinta|hikari]

He really doesn't care is the consensus of the fans, I think. At least that's how the people in conventions think.

[MFauli]

And that´s the biggest problem. The biggest danger, so it seems, is a lost fight of Goku´s. That´s it. It´s not what would follow such loss most of the times (complete annihilation of the human race).

[DarthEnderX]

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Jesus Christ, even MORE weight training. Get a new gimmick Toriyama.

That said, FIGHTING TOURNAMENT!

Also, super dragon balls.

[MFauli]

W T F?!?!

I just had another aneurism from watching this episode!
Let me get thits straight: There was NO innate danger for earth ... UNTIL Goku happily shouted "Hey, lets do this, Beerus, I wanna fight!" Now, earth is at risk of being transfered to another universe, where things might not be as peaceful as in the 7th one.

Although there´s also the nonsense that ... well, intergalactic wars haven´t been a thing so far, so unless the 6th universe is entirely different ... why even care about losing? What difference does it make if earth is in the 7th or 6th universe?

And the third mind-baffeling stupidty: If Champa has those super dragonballs that can transfer earth (which, tbh, should be a wish possible with the normal dragon balls), why even ask Beerus for this tournament, instead of just wishing for it without consent?



God, this is all so stupid.

[NeoCybercoin]

There are plenty of limitations to the normal dragon balls. But from what I gather things in U6 are opposite. So transporting the earth there should make it safer I mean...how many times has it gotten close to destruction? U6 might just be better for Earth.

But yeah....Goku is an idiot.

[DarthEnderX]

I dunno man. If U6 supposedly has different versions of people in U7, it's entirely possible that U6 has a Goku that never got sent to Earth and became a good guy. And in turn, never turned Vegeta into a good guy.

An evil Goku and Vegeta? That'd be a worthwhile enemy.


What if Vegeta is the tall one over there?!

[DarthEnderX]

Edit: Double post