To be fair, you wouldn't be able to get rich that way. Real people don't normally drop chests of gold or magic items worth a small fortune when they die in battle.Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
To be fair, you wouldn't be able to get rich that way. Real people don't normally drop chests of gold or magic items worth a small fortune when they die in battle.
I urge you to read up a little on the roman times.
It doesn't sound desperate to me when half the army is ordered to pillage, while the other half of the army holds position in case of an enemy attack. And they did so often without blinking an eye, because they knew they would get their fair share of the loot.
All these soldiers were paid properly and they wouldn't be free of service for another 5-20 years or so, so it's not like they had much of a personal use or even a place to sell it for or send it to.
As for the rich and noble, they bought these items as souvenirs. They didn't go on the battlefield to collect them themselves because they are rich and lazy, not because they don't want them or they had respect for the dead.
The Romans didn't *vote* for war so often because they "had" to. They voted for it for the money and the gains, since the conquered would most often be pillaged and sold into slavery and all they owned would go to soldiers and to Rome itself.
And I don't think you are actually talking about "desperate" people. Drug dealers for example aren't usually "desperate", they just want quick money. Same with mercenaries back then, merchants and artisans would not rarely turn mercenary simply because it would pay better.
Last edited by KrayZ33; Mon, 02-06-2023 at 02:16 PM.
War in itself is a desperate situation. Medieval times in general, unless you were well off, are desperate times. Why do you think armies are ordered to pillage? It's because armies needed supplies, and when they don't have a steady supply route, they need to pillage and loot.
Those people looted without blinking an eye because that's what they needed to do to survive. If they didn't, they would have trouble keeping the army and themselves fed.
They didn't do it because it was fun or honorable. They did it because it was necessary.
As time went on and we became more affluent as a society, looting dead people became a crime. Humans already saw it as immoral, so societies decided to outlaw it, but that was only practical because we can afford to not loot for survival.
I think the main difference in our POV is I think medieval times, where you say looting is commonplace, is a terrible time where many people barely survived. There are a lot of old barbaric practices that we have done away with because of improved civilization and technology. Looting is just one of them.
To add, many human civilizations treated their dead with respect, some with very elaborate funeral and burial practices. Compared to other animals, humans treat human corpses well when they can. When they can't because they need to survive, I see that as desperation.
Last edited by shinta|hikari; Mon, 02-06-2023 at 02:18 PM.
Peace.
Well, that's just not true. Fun was a big part of it and it was a get rich quick scheme for many of them.
What do you think the Vikings went on raids for.
They did it because they were so hungy and had to plunder England due to that?
We can agree to disagree. I have a more optimistic view of people. I believe a lot of cruelty and lack of humanity is attributed to a lack of resources, comfort, and stability.
If you mean during war, a lot of soldiers enjoyed looting corpses and pillaging homes and raping people, that is also something I attribute to desperation. Soldiers suffer through a lot of PTSD, physical wear and damage, so they turn barbaric when let loose upon their enemies (even non-combatants). Those are people in a very bad situation (i.e. desperate).
Even today, soldiers are recruited from the poor and desperate. It isn't usually a profession one goes into for fulfillment unless they are violent and sociopathic, which is a small minority in the population.
EDIT:
To address your edit, I just wanted to point out that invasions and colonization were either done because of a lack of resources for survival, or greed. I agree that when politicians and generals decide to go to war for territory and whatnot, they aren't really desperate. But the soldiers and civilians that are thrust into bloody conflict because of those decisions are desperate, or become so due to the war.
Last edited by shinta|hikari; Mon, 02-06-2023 at 02:33 PM.
Peace.
If I was an ancient commander, I'd allow looting enemy corpses, but the personal, valuable possessions from corpses of my own troops would be shipped to the surviving family members, if possible. If not possible, they would be used for the sake of the whole army. Of course weapons and such could be used in any immediate battle if necessary. If your own comrade becomes nothing but a lucrative money bag the moment he eats a sword, it would erode discipline, comradeship, and morale. KrayZ33 seems to suggest the Romans didn't care. Well, maybe in the middle of a battle nobody has time for extra thoughts and survival is the only thing that matters.
Just in case, this is what this whole discussion was about because the adventurers in the dungeon are all on the same side, technically, unless they belong the Evilus remnant. The other side, the enemy, are the monsters and the dungeon itself. Of course there could be individual ill feelings between the various familia, because that's how humans work.
And a lot of it isn't. Infinite resources for everyone would stop a lot of war and crime, but you'd still have assholes.
Absolutely, but having assholes versus humanity being mostly assholes is different. If the world were truly mostly made up of assholes, we would probably have gone extinct long ago.
Peace.
Episode 17
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I feel like I first need to laugh at the title of the next episode: Desperate. Surely things have been quite desperate for a while now, especially for Ryuu and Bell.
Zero Cassandra despair lines in this episode, which alone is a huge relief. That being said, aside from Bell and Ryuu bonding, it feels like this hardly moved anywhere before the very end. The Xenos ought to be very nice reinforcements in this situation. Although the Nyaa Ryuu rescue group is quite close. I don't think those girls and the Xenos necessarily mix well. But who knows, if the Xenos don't mind being found out in the dungeon. On the other hand, it's not like that group would have an absolute monster hater like Ais or a battle maniac like Bete, so they might listen to reason.
Episode 18
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The dungeon crawl, in two locations, and the endless hordes of enemies are seriously straining the animation budget. It started to be pretty nonexistent in this episode, just still images with slashes of light on top of them.
As much as I like Ryuu, this is getting too stretched, even when I skip the unnecessary and boring episode opening flashbacks. If there was a good animation budget, then this could be more varied and the fights/survival actually enjoyable to watch, but now it's just painful. I hope the colosseum, whatever it stands for, will be better, but I won't dare to hope for too much.
I'm still digging the From-Soft-ness of the bleak caves and constant hum.
For monsters that are supposedly very intelligent in combat, they seem to give zero fucks about friendly fire.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
It's like watching an LP with two of the most boring Vtubers ever...
Episode 19
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Nothing in this episode gave me the feeling they both absolutely couldn't have escaped and thus Ryuu had to sacrifice herself. The fact Bell was able to circle back and Ryuu was still alive means they had plenty of leeway. They could have both crossed the bridge and then destroyed it behind themselves. I suppose the problem was that Ryuu had convinced herself of the need to sacrifice herself and thus she was only looking for the opportunity to do it, necessary or not. If Bell had more wits, seeing how Ryuu had been behaving ever since they dropped down to the deep levels, he should have told Ryuu, before they entered the colosseum, that he will have none of the staying behind nonsense. If he told Ryuu straight and adamantly that if she tries to remain behind to buy Bell time, then he will just come back for her, she wouldn't have had any choice but abandon the plan. Alas, he's too stupid to read other people at all. He's full of his hero complex, yet he actually hasn't got a clue what the people he's saving might be thinking or feeling. But perhaps that's something that goes hand in hand with being a hero.
There was the part where Ryu cleared the whole bridge and carried Bell across with her attack. It'd come down to whether destroying the bridge was critical to killing the monsters, or whether Ryu's attack would have wiped them out anyway. I can't be sure.
What I do feel however, is that the intelligence and power level of the Deep Floor monsters have taken a nosedive.
Now they're dying in one swipe, the attacks don't really phase the two anymore, they get tricked by a cloak and smell.. they're just back to fodder again when just a few episodes ago each encounter felt like a miniboss.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
That's a good point. I suppose one could argue the infinitely spawning colosseum monsters aren't real monsters, they are weak, mass produced imitations for whatever purpose the colosseum exists (development of new monsters?), but I reckon it's just the usual weakness and error in the plot.
I guessed the same, on that floor the further away you are from the coloseum, the stronger the monsters.
Why ? They escaped the coloseum trials and further infighting.
The first skullsheep used camouflage and wait for an opportunity to strike.
The closer we got to the coloseum, the monster acted with less wits.
So the menace shifted from single monsters with some level of intelligence, to large numbers but without any strategy/wits.
Danger is still there because our pair doesn't have any more bombs to clear a path.
All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.
I was half expecting them to suddenly be rewarded.
Like Bell said, seems like the purpose of the place is to test something. And maybe nobody has actually hung around and fought there for very long because there doesn't seem to be a benefit to it. But by sticking around and killing so many monsters, maybe it triggers some kind of prize.
Either way, I'm expecting Bell to go up multiple levels when he gets back.
I'm expecting that the monsters stop spawning if you kill them all at once.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
If he creates big enough an explosion to kill all the monsters at once, wouldn't Bell and Ryuu die at the same time?
Depends on whether they're wearing Plot Armour.
Logically yes. Logically also we just watched Bell run through a bunch of monsters and they just stood there watching him dunk a nuke.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
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