My Teen Romantic Comedy SNAFU!

[KrayZ33]

Hello there,

didn't we have a Season 1 thread for this show, I can't find it.
It's moving forward pretty fast, but that's not a bad thing... Maybe 2-3 episodes/volume? If that's the case, they'll either end up animating the X.5 ones - which I didn't read or go all the way up to Volume 10 (S1 ended with Volume 6) and beyond, which is the most recent.

The "new" Character design is flashy, I like it.
Yukino looks really beautiful.

What I didn't like so much is that they left out the good parts with Saki... but they did that in S1 too. Too bad.. I hope they won't leave her out all the way, because she has some good scenes.

[Kraco]

It's starting to feel like Hachiman is getting more and more gay for Totsuka. If I have one problem with this series, it's that. It goes against the general theme of the dude trying to push everybody away. Otherwise it's all good stuff. This is far from the superficiality of Haganai.

[shinta|hikari]

Totsuka is the only genuinely nice person to Hachiman. Plus he's hot. I can completely understand Hachiman's dilemma.

And it's hilarious.

[KrayZ33]

Well, it's never "serious" in any way, so I can laugh it off... one of my favorite moments of season 1 was when 8man despised it when Yuki greeted everyone with "Yahallooo" , until Touka started doing it and he went from "it sounds ridicilous" to "W-Wow, totally cute, everyone should do it"

[Ryllharu]

There are two major problems with this series:

1) Its characters do not leave an impression at all.
2) Not a damn thing happens.

As the events of the previous season were flashing by, all I could think was, "Damn, I don't remember any of this." I watched the previous season when it aired. Compare that to DRRR's intro last season and despite a five year gap I was able to remember it all. This was two years ago. I didn't really "get" this series then then. I still don't now.

I can barely tell you the names of the main characters. Strike that, I actually can't remember any of them. I have no idea who any of the supporting characters are (except for Hachiman obviously being gay for the trap). I try to remember who any of these people are, what their personalities are, whether or not the main trio helped them out before, and nothing registers. I know the one girl is cold, the other girl is a friendly ditz, and Hachiman is...like kind of an asshole, but secretly lonely and kind-hearted but...doesn't know how?

The first season left absolutely no impression on me. At all. There's a good chance I could tell you what series the girls were from if shown an image, but I still can't tell you their names. I only remember Hachiman because Arch mentioned it in IRC.

Furthermore, I couldn't tell you what the hell kind of character development happened last season. As far as I remember, it ended the way it began. Twelve episodes of basically nothing happening. They might have helped people, but I don't remember who they were or if they are part of the supporting cast. I know there was a sticker added to the door sign each episode. That's it.

Which continued here. You could condense this entire episode into 5 minutes and there would be no appreciable difference. The last 3 minutes were really the only time that anything even occurred.

There are better series out there that are like this, and they do a better job of it. Somehow...this is super popular, but I just don't really get it. Nothing happens, and nothing about any of the characters stand out. It's tough to even call it slice of life, because the characters end the same way they start.

I just can't see myself following this for an entire second season. I keep hearing how other people think it is great, but I simply don't see the appeal.

I will give it the requisite two more episodes, then probably just drop it.

[shinta|hikari]

It's popular because Hachiman is awesome and gets shit done despite being insanely anti-social and cynical.

It is also terribly realistic at times (at least from the perspective of RL loners), especially when portraying human relationships. I don't think I've ever empathized with a harem (it's not really a harem) protagonist more.

I agree that it isn't for everyone. I'd actually wager that a good chunk of people who like it just enjoy the cute character designs.

[KrayZ33]

The show manages to be both sweetly amusing and extremely sharp and... bitter. Both Yukino and 8man reflect that.

It's not really a "feel-good" comedy and continuously honest about how the world works. I can't say I've seen alot of shows like it.
Watching this show is like watching people.
It helps that the MC is without equal, the most pragmatic I've seen and won't get carried away by visions, dreams and is free of ideology, because we've seen enough of the opposite in other shows.

edit:... and I like suffering, Batman.. eh, Hachiman sells this show for me. So does a deadpan like Yukino
I disagree with the statement that the characters fail to leave an impression. I believe the first season made their stance and ideals on things very clear.
But I guess thats easy for me to say if I remember it and someone else doesn't.
What can I say... other than "tastes differ"

There are better series out there that are like this, and they do a better job of it.

Which one though? Would probably watch them.
The only Anime that gets related to it on anidb is "Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai" and that one is so much worse. It doesn't even get close. I can't name a single show that illustrates every-day social situations and the psychology behind the interactions between the characters (from the POV of a cynical teen) to such a degree (in the romcom genre).
Oreshura, Chuuni, Nisekoi... they're are so "normal"

For example, the only character I know that is similiar to this show's MC would be Kyon... somewhat.

[Kraco]

I simply enjoy watching Hachiman being so damn true to himself, even though he's clearly hurting himself more than helping with his ultimate better safe than sorry relationship strategy (or is it better always a little hurt than possibly majorly hurt once, who knows). He's not the usual inept love comedy lead who miraculously avoids getting any girl. He's instead using all of his efforts to make sure he won't get any. Nor is he trying to get any male friends either. That's why I'm sort of annoyed by the Totsuka case. Even though there's a saying in Finnish going along the lines of an exception confirming a rule, so it's not impossible for me to accept the fact Hachiman is treating Totsuka differently.

Despite the fact it was such a sad or cruel scene, I really enjoyed it when during the first season Hachiman turned down Yui preemptively when it started to seem inevitable she was getting interested in him, not only wanted to thank him for saving her dog. So, Hachiman naturally told her that she can just already forget him because the dog case doesn't matter anymore, as if that had been her only reason to hang around him for so long. The dude really knew how to put a stop to her romantic approach for the time being, embarrasing her and making himself look like an asshole, as usual.

[Kraco]

Yahallo 02 - FFF


- - - - - -



This felt like one of Hachiman's least stunts by scale, but I suppose in other ways it was still quite big, for example in imagining how many other people could have done the same. The others tell him he's nasty and his methods are nastier, but in the end nobody had any better ideas, so it was, once again, up to his wicked ways to solve the case. On the other hand with his preexisting reputation maybe he was the only person who could naturally (if such a thing can be natural) do it without causing a bigger problem in the process. He's got nothing to lose personally, after all, and everybody else knows that as well. It's already quite interesting how he has got no friends, unless you count Totsuka, but quite a few people can still approach with effortlessly by now, even if half the time they seek him out to tell him how low he is.

To be entirely honest Hachiman spends so much time with Yui and Yukino that it's kind of hard to view him as totally forlorn case in realistic terms, but obviously without those interactions there would be little to see in the show.

[shinta|hikari]

Yu and Yukino aren't his friends. They are merely his club mates.

That is what he believes, at least. That's why he failed to understand how hurting himself hurt those that care about him in the process. Hachiman is used to the abuse and can take it. That does not mean he feels nothing. He just believed that his feelings have lesser value than those of the other people around him, and as such, he sacrificed himself for them.

However, Yui and Yukino clearly think otherwise. They care for him more than they do about the others. Seeing him damage himself with his methods hurt them too. That's why the two of them were so angry at him at the end of the episode.

While I do understand those two, they should also put themselves in Hachiman's shoes. He knows no other way. Just that fact alone implies how horrible a life he has led. It's not like he chose that method because he likes to hurt himself. Despite his cynical thoughts and words, in the end, Hachiman is absurdly kind. That's what those two girls like about him, not his sharp mind.

Scolding him and walking away like that isn't a good way to fix the error of his ways. Hachiman is damaged. Kicking him down more isn't gonna help.

[Kraco]

He knows no other way.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. It's merely the most efficient way for one in his position. He's pretty sharp, so he likely could come up with other strategies, also those that would suit popular people. But an unpopular person can't make popular people do stuff, so he's stuck with doing the unpopular things himself, mainly.

Scolding him and walking away like that isn't a good way to fix the error of his ways. Hachiman is damaged. Kicking him down more isn't gonna help.

Of course. But it suits this story perfectly. It would ruin everything if too many good things happened to him.

[shinta|hikari]

He's pretty sharp, so he likely could come up with other strategies, also those that would suit popular people. But an unpopular person can't make popular people do stuff, so he's stuck with doing the unpopular things himself, mainly.

That's exactly it. Even if he could come up with strategies, they still have to be put into action, and he lacks that ability. He does not have Hayama's looks or popularity, nor people to help him (or so he thinks). He's so used to being alone that he defaults to solo skills that uses his own HP to use. His bocchiness is part of what limits his potential.

Of course. But it suits this story perfectly. It would ruin everything if too many good things happened to him.

I'm not complaining about the story, which I love. I'm complaining about the characters' actions, which I hated. The two of them smiled and entrusted (handed over because they can't do shit) the issue to him, and when he does something about it, they get pissed at him. Jerks.

[neflight86]

At least, in being upset by his sacrificial tactics, they affirm to us (him and the viewership) that they care about him, which is the most tangible gain he could hope for his services.

[KrayZ33]

I'm not complaining about the story, which I love. I'm complaining about the characters' actions, which I hated. The two of them smiled and entrusted (handed over because they can't do shit) the issue to him, and when he does something about it, they get pissed at him. Jerks.

I agree, his solution was actually not as "bad" as the previous ones (remember the camp where he made 4 girls reset their "friend status"?). For me, no one got hurt here, not even Hachiman himself. It might be different when Tobe's friends talk about it at school though but there is Hayama, who knows how to handle that and could probably stop any "badmouthing" comming from them.

Tobe was "okay" with it
Ebina was glad he did it.
Hayama has no right to really complain about how it was done. He *asked* him to do it, it's not like he didn't know how he would do it.
And Yui + Yukino could neither do anything themselves nor was there any reason for them to "pity" him.

I mean... why?
Ebina knew what was going on, Hachiman was lying anyway - and would you feel hurt if someone says "no" to your half-assed love confession?
For me this was a nice way of telling Tobe to give up for now... Neither Ebina nor Tobe had to face any consequences and they arn't even mad at Hachiman, Tobe even said/acted like something that could be translated as "No hard feelings", so why all this "stop hitting yourself" stuff.

Well, maybe Yui+Yukino wanted them to conclude this by letting Tobe get shot down, but they fail to show even the slightest amount of understanding for Hachiman. Just consider the situation he was in, with having to deal with not just one side of the story (Tobe's) but also with Ebina's, Hayama's and Yumiko's.
Of course, both of them didn't know that, but they wouldn't even let him explain either... not that it would've made much of a difference, seeing how Hachiman would probably lie about it and try to justify it without mentioning anything related to the "informal" request he recieved during the trip.


edit: for the episode itself
I had a few problems with it... it's not only that it felt rushed but I believe they didn't let us hear Hachiman inner thoughts enough. S1 had him talk more about how the world around him is biased, wrong and fake etc. and we didn't even get much of a reaction out of him when Hayama revealed his inability to do anything here. It was supposed to be a rather impactful scene, wasn't it? Let's not forget that Hayama nearly punched him in the freaking face right at the end of S1.

His train of thought was missing in my opinion, I guess they couldn't spare enough time to fit it all in (especially in the earlier parts during the trip)... which saddens me, because - well I might be wrong here - it's what made people like the show, isn't it?
At least I want more of his judgemental, darker innser side.

[shinta|hikari]

Ah, you may be right. I don't remember the LN well enough to compare, but this did seem to happen way too fast. Wasn't the first two episodes an entire book? Usually it's 3-4 per book.

[Kraco]

Well, maybe Yui+Yukino wanted them to conclude this by letting Tobe get shot down, but they fail to show even the slightest amount of understanding for Hachiman. Just consider the situation he was in, with having to deal with not just one side of the story (Tobe's) but also with Ebina's, Hayama's and Yumiko's.
Of course, both of them didn't know that, but they wouldn't even let him explain either... not that it would've made much of a difference, seeing how Hachiman would probably lie about it and try to justify it without mentioning anything related to the "informal" request he recieved during the trip.

Especially Yui who loves but also Yukino likes Hachiman, so they naturally don't want to see him hurt himself with his strange solutions to problems. For Yui it must have been quite hard to watch Hachiman confess to another girl, even if it was fake and pure strategy. After all, Hachiman earlier turned down Yui in quite a cold way. While they had no way of their own to solve this particular case, they might have still preferred the dude from another group to suffer the consequences rather than Hachiman of their own group. I don't honestly see why they should have praised his effort, which only benefitted Hayama's group but damaged their own.

[shinta|hikari]

And Yui did mention that she thought Hachiman was serious for a second. Her heart must have fallen to the ground at that moment.

But when I remember how much damage Hachiman takes from these two girls (even though he is "numb" to it by now), I can't really fault him for not realizing their feelings too much either. When Hachiman and Yukino were walking back together to the hotel after eating ramen with foreveralone, Yukino told him to keep away from her because she did not want to be seen together with him. Those kinds of things would make anyone think that they aren't liked, especially someone with tattered confidence like Hachiman.

[Kraco]

But when I remember how much damage Hachiman takes from these two girls (even though he is "numb" to it by now), I can't really fault him for not realizing their feelings too much either. When Hachiman and Yukino were walking back together to the hotel after eating ramen with foreveralone, Yukino told him to keep away from her because she did not want to be seen together with him. Those kinds of things would make anyone think that they aren't liked, especially someone with tattered confidence like Hachiman.

Can you really include Yui, though? Yukino certainly doesn't spare any words to let Hachiman hear just how miserable he is, but I don't think Yui does much of that sort. She's still trying to maintain her relationship with the more popular people, but she's not avoiding Hachiman at all. Add to that the fact Hachiman knows she is, or was, romantically interested in him. He just couldn't accept it (he wouldn't be Hachiman if he had). I feel sorry for Yui when watching this show.

[shinta|hikari]

On Yui's part, she hangs out with people who call Hachiman a loser. I certainly would not like it if a "friend" does that.

[KrayZ33]

Yukino told him to keep away from her because she did not want to be seen together with him. Those kinds of things would make anyone think that they aren't liked, especially someone with tattered confidence like Hachiman.

She didn't want to be seen with him because it was late and people would start saying/thinking indecent things about them.
However, I got the feeling that Hachiman understood that completely and wasn't offended by that.
But on a more general side of things, yeah, Yukino really likes to poke him as much as possible.

I don't honestly see why they should have praised his effort, which only benefitted Hayama's group but damaged their own.

I just can't see the damage done to Hachiman here... I get it that Yui is really dense, so you could argue that she didn't get it at first and was hurt by his confession to another girl and since Yukino is so close to Yui, she is angry at Hachiman for hurting her feelings. But right after he got shot down, Yui didn't run away in tears as if saying "why did you turn me down? Why do you think Ebina is a better choice than me" - She stayed and talked to him which tells me that, even if she had to confirm it just to be sure, she knew it was a fake confession.

There is no aftermath here other than what the group caused to itself.

edit: I just remembered that Yui+Yukino didn't know about Hachiman's talk with Hayato, Ebina (what he got out of her "request") and Yumiko. That actually changes things alot, for them he took the hit for Tobe and only for him.. but it's a totally different conclusion in Hachiman's eyes.

He helped Hayato, who couldn't intervene at all and was pretty much lost
He saved the friendship of Yui and Yumiko
He stopped their circle from falling apart

All that with a mere bluff... but Yui and Yukino don't know that Hayato and the rest won't think badly of him for what he did, in their eyes he just sacrificed himselfs/his social status, which of course pains them at this point and time of the story, even if they never officially said they are "friends"