Movie: Spider-Man joins the Marvel universe.

[Animeniax]

It wasn't an argument, so it doesn't matter. The movie studio is going with high school PP if that means anything.

Funny thing is that UChess almost had me persuaded that adult PP would be more interesting than high school PP. However they already covered adult PP in the original trilogy of movies. Besides the first half of the first movie, PP was a working young adult balancing those responsibilities with being a superhero. The Amazing PP was also in high school, but not like real PP, since Amazing PP didn't have the typical issues we associate with being nerdy, uncool, and a superhero (you know, the very traits that define PP/SM). So having PP back in a high school setting makes the most sense, especially if they keep him true to the original character.

[Edort4]

Call me Naive but I think its called target audience. They focus on the specific group of ppl that will get them the most revenues. Usually for this kind of content thats the bracket between kids (forcing parents and grandparents) and teens/"adults" that still (or want) think that are teens. Imo it has nothing to do with what environment will produce the better script/situations.

I wouldnt be surprised if Japan starts creating heroes and content focused on elderly ppl like they already did with the prono industry. In the end of the day its all reduced to whom is going to pay.

[UChessmaster]

Yeah sure, pleasing the audience is totally cool, the issue is the overwhelming amount of hypocrisy in this thread. Yeah, sure, let`s send him to HS no problem (for the audience!), but make sure to put a threshold on the amount of melanin the main character can have. What`s that? the audience is ok with a black character? NO WAY! they need to stick to the source material! (that I haven`t read). FUCK PLEASING THE AUDIENCES!. Derp.

And again, most super heroes are not in HS and manage to be successful, why must Spidey succumb to this nonsense? because he was in HS for less than 1% of his career?

[Animeniax]

Call me Naive but I think its called target audience. They focus on the specific group of ppl that will get them the most revenues. Usually for this kind of content thats the bracket between kids (forcing parents and grandparents) and teens/"adults" that still (or want) think that are teens. Imo it has nothing to do with what environment will produce the better script/situations.

I wouldnt be surprised if Japan starts creating heroes and content focused on elderly ppl like they already did with the prono industry. In the end of the day its all reduced to whom is going to pay.

It's a given that movie studios typically don't care about about crafting great stories and making memorable movies. When we talk about environment and situations, that equates to appealing to more fans, which in turn means more money at the box office. A HS Spidey appeals to more of the target audience.

Yeah sure, pleasing the audience is totally cool, the issue is the overwhelming amount of hypocrisy in this thread. Yeah, sure, let`s send him to HS no problem (for the audience!), but make sure to put a threshold on the amount of melanin the main character can have. What`s that? the audience is ok with a black character? NO WAY! they need to stick to the source material! (that I haven`t read). FUCK PLEASING THE AUDIENCES!. Derp.

And again, most super heroes are not in HS and manage to be successful, why must Spidey succumb to this nonsense? because he was in HS for less than 1% of his career?

Ironic that you want an adult comic book hero but refuse to be adult in a discussion about it.

The adult superhero market is covered (pretty much all the other super heroes in movies). How many teen superheroes are there so high-schoolers can relate to them? And this supposed audience you talk about is just a very vocal minority. Refusing to accept a non-white PP isn't some racist or exclusionist agenda. PP/Spider-man is white. From the studios' perspective, if for no other reason than to make as much money as possible (besides staying true to the character), how many successful superhero movies are there with lead characters of color? They aren't going to risk a franchise to satisfy that small minority. Stop stealing white peoples' superheroes.

[UChessmaster]

Like the Amazing Spider-Man? Where do you get exactly that fans prefer a HS peter? Is there a poll out there?

[Animeniax]

As was discussed, that was a different PP characterization and was lampooned because of that. That wasn't the PP people know and love.

[UChessmaster]

Ironic that you want an adult comic book hero but refuse to be adult in a discussion about it.

Hey, I was pretty civil originaly, you have a thing for killing neurons.

The adult superhero market is covered (pretty much all the other super heroes in movies).

Which is why they have plans to bring even more adult super heroes, because it`s too crowded already. The Defenders, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Ant-Man, Magneto`s kids, Black Panther, Doctor Strange, Captain Marvel, Inhumans, The Flash, Green Lantern, Cyborg.

How many teen superheroes are there so high-schoolers can relate to them? And this supposed audience you talk about is just a very vocal minority.

Then why not bring one of the already established high school super heroes? Young Avengers? Teen titans?

Refusing to accept a non-white PP isn't some racist or exclusionist agenda.

Hey man, whatever helps you sleep.

PP/Spider-man is white.

He`s also a college graduate.

From the studios' perspective, if for no other reason than to make as much money as possible (besides staying true to the character), how many successful superhero movies are there with lead characters of color?

"It`s never been done, let`s not do it" - Animeniax

They aren't going to risk a franchise to satisfy that small minority.

The Fantastic Four.

Stop stealing white peoples' superheroes.

Stop stealing adult super heroes?

As was discussed, that was a different PP characterization and was lampooned because of that. That wasn't the PP people know and love.

And the new one we`re seeing is a different characterization considering the one thing we know about him is already different from his comic book (that you haven`t read[I can`t stress this enough]) persona. What makes you think the setting will be the ONLY thing not changed?

[Ryllharu]

I dunno why you do this to yourself UChess.

Come to IRC and have an intelligent discussion about comics with Y.

[Animeniax]

Hey, I was pretty civil originaly, you have a thing for killing neurons.

Nah, you just turn salty when you can't win with weak arguments. I'm ok with not being civil, but I'm ok with just being right too.

Which is why they have plans to bring even more adult super heroes, because it`s too crowded already. The Defenders, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Ant-Man, Magneto`s kids, Black Panther, Doctor Strange, Captain Marvel, Inhumans, The Flash, Green Lantern, Cyborg.

So what you're saying is that they have the adult superhero market covered. So PP/SM as a teen will reach a different (its intended) audience, as well as those who grew up reading the comics and are now adults. Win-win for Marvel.

Then why not bring one of the already established high school super heroes? Young Avengers? Teen titans?

They've struggled to bring well known superheroes to live action. Teen Titans, Young Avengers? Who the f*ck are they? Spider-man has about 1000% more recognition and fanbase than both of those groups combined.

Hey man, whatever helps you sleep.

Whatever keeps your angst up so you can feel like you stand for something, stick with it. Let that hate flow.

"It`s never been done, let`s not do it" - Animeniax

If it flops and the studio loses millions, that's ok. At least a couple kids liked it and identified with it. It's easy for you to tell them to risk everything and hope it works out.

The Fantastic Four.

One in 4, and the least significant of the 4.

Stop stealing adult super heroes?

He was a teen before he was an adult. PP was never non-white.

And the new one we`re seeing is a different characterization considering the one thing we know about him is already different from his comic book (that you haven`t read[I can`t stress this enough]) persona. What makes you think the setting will be the ONLY thing not changed?

That depends on which SM series/universe/time we're referring to.

I dunno why you do this to yourself UChess.

Come to IRC and have an intelligent discussion about comics with Y.

We're talking about movies...

[rockmanj]

Johnny Storm is the least important of the FF? That sounds pretty subjective. They are all pretty important; they are a family. If they could make Johnny Storm non-white, no reason to make PP a white guy, but I am 100% sure they will.

[Animeniax]

He's only there as a kid brother sidekick to Sue. Mr Fantastic and Thing stand on their own, and Sue is co-leader, wife, and sister to add those roles to the team dynamic. It says something that Johnny was 16 when he went into space where he got his super powers. On one hand you could say he was a child prodigy. More realistically though, he was tacked on by the FF creators to fill the role of obnoxious younger sibling. What better way to explore the pitfalls of gaining super powers than through the eyes of an adolescent teen? If the race issue was truly going to be challenged, Mr. Fantastic would have been the better candidate. Black man in charge, a scientist no less, and married to a white woman... that would have been a better statement that "color doesn't matter".

Only reason to make PP a white guy is because he was white as created. Now if they made Spider-man non-white, that would be a different discussion.

[rockmanj]

He's only there as a kid brother sidekick to Sue. Mr Fantastic and Thing stand on their own, and Sue is co-leader, wife, and sister to add those roles to the team dynamic. It says something that Johnny was 16 when he went into space where he got his super powers. On one hand you could say he was a child prodigy. More realistically though, he was tacked on by the FF creators to fill the role of obnoxious younger sibling.

I disagree with that point; he was the first one to get a spin off I believe, and made it cool for Marvel to start creating other teen-aged superheores, such as Spider-man and the X-men. He isn't as popular now, but back then, he was huge.

[Ryllharu]

So, since this topic doesn't have all that much to do with Spiderman so much as changing characters in Marvel comics...

Guess what?

Now young Iceman is apparently gay, adult Iceman still isn't. Yes, they both exist at the same time.

[Animeniax]

I disagree with that point; he was the first one to get a spin off I believe, and made it cool for Marvel to start creating other teen-aged superheores, such as Spider-man and the X-men. He isn't as popular now, but back then, he was huge.

He may have been big back in the early days of comics, but he's not now and hasn't been for a while, so changing him now isn't as big a deal. Like I said, it would have been a much bigger thing to change Reed Richards or even Sue to a non-white character. As it stands, there was enough hate for the changes to Johnny Storm.

So, since this topic doesn't have all that much to do with Spiderman so much as changing characters in Marvel comics...

Guess what?

Now young Iceman is apparently gay, adult Iceman still isn't. Yes, they both exist at the same time.

So Bobby Drake is either a closeted gay man as an adult, or he's in an experimental phase as a teen. I think it's a pretty stupid justification that adult Drake doesn't have much success dating women, so he must be gay! What kind of message is that sending to young adults? No success with the opposite sex because you have trust issues or narcissistic tendencies? Nah, you're probably just gay.

[UChessmaster]

I`m gonna presume past X-Men are alternate reality, otherwise, the present would have changed. I`m not sure how I feel about a gay Bobby, but at least the way he was outed was adorable.

[DarthEnderX]

Yep, aaaaand we`re back to high school. At least it`s consistent with the comics in how they just refuse to let Peter grow.

What do you mean? Peter hasn't been in High School for, like, over 50 years in the comics.

I mean, he's currently the CEO of his own scientific corporation. That's a pretty long road from the teenage newspaper photographer he started out as.

They focus on the specific group of ppl that will get them the most revenues. Usually for this kind of content thats the bracket between kids (forcing parents and grandparents) and teens/"adults" that still (or want) think that are teens. Imo it has nothing to do with what environment will produce the better script/situations.

It's also erroneous thinking. That your target audience only likes it when they see someone like themselves as a hero.

Because, you know, kids would never connect with a 40 year old technology mogul. Or a WW2 veteran. Or a thousand year old Norse deity, or a space raccoon...

...nah, kids and teens wouldn't like any of that.


I blame Harry Potter for this. HP was the most popular thing ever with teenagers. And it starred teenagers. So in a stupid studio exec's mind, teenagers must only like things that star teenagers.

A HS Spidey appeals to more of the target audience.

That was never the case for me anyway. Even as a kid or a teenager, I never liked teenage super-heroes.

Having your superhero in high school inevitably means that their story time gets split between being a super hero and high-school drama. And there is NOTHING I hated more than stories about high-school drama.

I`m not sure how I feel about a gay Bobby

The LBGT's position on being gay is that you are born that way. Since young Bobby is just Bobby from the past, the fact that he's gay and present Bobby isn't implies that past Bobby's experiences in the present are somehow turning him gay.

So that's either offensive, or it just plain doesn't make any sense.

[UChessmaster]

What do you mean? Peter hasn't been in High School for, like, over 50 years in the comics.

I mean, he's currently the CEO of his own scientific corporation. That's a pretty long road from the teenage newspaper photographer he started out as.

Until that gets One More Day`ed. Peter goes back and forth between Rock Bottom or "Big time", he never stays in one particular status quo. Today he`s an avenger, tomorrow he is not, until he is an avenger again tomorrow. That`s what I meant. I give it 10 issues before Parker Industries is down, it`s been self destructing for a while now. And then it`s back to living with the ancient mummy, yay.

The LBGT's position on being gay is that you are born that way. Since young Bobby is just Bobby from the past, the fact that he's gay and present Bobby isn't implies that past Bobby's experiences in the present are somehow turning him gay.

So that's either offensive, or it just plain doesn't make any sense.

But as I mentioned, he must be an alternate version, because if he weren`t, the present would have been different already, and Jean and Angel wouldn`t have completely new powers.

[Animeniax]

That was never the case for me anyway. Even as a kid or a teenager, I never liked teenage super-heroes.

Having your superhero in high school inevitably means that their story time gets split between being a super hero and high-school drama. And there is NOTHING I hated more than stories about high-school drama.

I like the nostalgia that high-school settings bring. For me, a superhero in high school reminds me of how back in hs I dreamed of having super powers and how that would have changed how I interacted with girls, friends, bullies, and just standing out from the crowd.

The LBGT's position on being gay is that you are born that way. Since young Bobby is just Bobby from the past, the fact that he's gay and present Bobby isn't implies that past Bobby's experiences in the present are somehow turning him gay.

So that's either offensive, or it just plain doesn't make any sense.

The way I read it is that present Bobby is just in denial about being gay. Since he grew up during a less tolerant time, he set it in his mind that he wasn't gay and has lived his life that way ever since. Maybe if he had the right support and influences as a teen then he would have embraced being gay. The younger version shows how that would have played out.

[Munsu]

Asa Butterfield seems like being considered for the role... not feeling it.

[Edort4]

Asa Butterfield seems like being considered for the role... not feeling it.

For what role? The only one I would aprove would be newspaper boy with 10 secs of screen time.