Maria the Virgin Witch: Junketsu no Maria

[Buffalobiian]

She's not being forceful enough about it then. She stops people fighting, then gasps when they continue to do so. If she was as self-reassured as she says she is (I'm doing this because it's what I want) then she should just bitch-slap them all back to England right from the start. Her half-heartedness stems from the fact that she thinks she's doing good, not just because "she likes to".

[shinta|hikari]

She's a pacifist. Bitch slapping people for fighting would completely contradict that. At most, she scares them off but never hurts anyone.

[KrayZ33]

This show sure is great. It really gets me everytime when they show that Maria's interference is both heaven-sent and very problematic at the same time. Stopping battles will make the war last longer, more taxes are needed - people suffer because of that, but at the same time there are people like Ann's father that are able to live only because Maria stopped the fighting.

You can't say whether its right or wrong to do what she does.
Everyone (except for the monk of course) in this show is so lost... Joseph wants to stay with Maria but can't. Galf wants to achieve rank and name, but this might be impossible now, especially after what he did to his "superior". Maria will have ti give up on Joseph if she wants to continue being a witch.... etc. etc.

[Kraco]

Episode 8 - HS



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Galfa is far more levelheaded than I gave him credit for. It looks like losing the arm didn't really bother him all that much, especially when he was able to claim the position of a chief. Now he even got an arm of steel from the count. Looks like he still would like to settle the debt with Maria, but interestingly enough the evil priest actually needs to push him to do it. I have no doubt he would also do it if given a chance. Too bad for Joseph. Although Galfa really does get along with Joseph, no doubt largely because Joseph never looked down on him no matter how low Galfa occasionally sunk, that wouldn't be enough to stop him, I reckon. He could rape Maria and then kill Joseph in a duel without looking back. However, if he sees a suitable alternative that allows him to get rid of Maria's interference for good, get the nasty priest off his case, and retain Joseph as a friend, I believe he would choose it, after what I saw in this episode. I guess Joseph sleeping with Maria would suffice.

It was quite obvious Maria's influence in the villages around the forest wouldn't continue for much longer. The church was such a huge influence in everyday life back then that there's no way the villagers wouldn't obey when a priest of high standing tells them to forget Maria. They wouldn't risk the wrath of the church and damn their souls to Hell just for the sake of one witch.

[Buffalobiian]

Obviously she doesn't want to understand it, considering it has been told her before. But then again, she doesn't really care about what others want or hope for. She's stopping all the fighting near the forest because she personally hates war and she has the power to do it. That's it.

Again this episode suggests otherwise. She thinks what she's doing will bring other people happiness, not just herself.

I did find amusing that the divine also see the church as being absurd and wrong. Like with wars though, they see no reason to stop it given it's natural order.

I do ask myself why we try out best to save endangered species sometimes. Is there some inherent value in keeping alive a species that is inferior?

[shinta|hikari]

Of course! It'll be that much cooler to see them in zoos and be in pictures with them.

Kidding aside, rarity increases the value of anything, be it objects, skills, or species. Humans tend to see value in existence itself, like how they value human life even if that human has negative value to society (consumption>contribution). The same can be said for antiques, etc. The rare exception would be deadly viruses and the like, but even then I think we keep samples of them in some lab for research.

[Kraco]

Again this episode suggests otherwise. She thinks what she's doing will bring other people happiness, not just herself.

Of course she is. It doesn't matter, however. The world is full of people who think they know better than yourself what makes you happy and they aren't too shy to share their opionions or even force their decisions on others. The saying that the worst deeds are often done with the best of intentions is not rubbish. Ironically enough if you had asked the civilians around the forest for their opinion, they might have shared Maria's view. It's exactly like the populistic politicians that seem to be all the rage in Europe right now. Their promises seem enticing but aren't oft based on realism or are blind to the bigger picture.

What we do know is that Maria has never been going around asking people what they want. She even seemed annoyed by the arrows wish arrows Joseph gathered for her and I don't recall her actually spending lots of time reading them. When others have tried to advice her, she's as stubborn as a mule.

[Ryllharu]

The irony is that even if the village and even Anne forget about Maria, Bernard, prideful asshole that he is, never will. He'll always remember his victory over the influence of the blasphemous witch who dared to be named after the holy virgin. Bernard has built her up in his own mind as his greatest foe, and in turn given her even more power. She's free to lose her virginity and lose that power, but his plan has backfired already by his own revolting nature.


But there is also something else that doesn't add up. Where did Bernard get this pot of "rape aphrodisiac" to give to Galfa? Where did Gilbert and Bernard get medicine that is as good as Maria's? That's when it hit me.

The peculiar unnamed girl in the OP appeared in episode 6 giving medicine and information to Gilbert around the 9:15 minute mark. It was a short scene and easily overlooked. Until this episode. This was before Galfa got injured and before Martha ran out of Maria's medicine.

I'll bet Galfa's right arm that she's the Church's witch.

Bernard was willing to recruit Maria all the way back if she would, "repent her evil ways," until she pissed him off. The church has much to gain by being able to obtain healing medicines and use them on random villagers. They can then claim that the grace of God and the receiver's faith was what enabled mere herbs to heal the sick. It worked on Martha, her family, and the other villagers. It's started to confuse poor Anne.

That mysterious girl is giving the church the same means that Maria uses, while using their superior societal position to gain further power and influence. It was no surprise that they are hypocrites, but the loop finally closed. Gilbert might not realize it, but Bernard definitely knows who he is conspiring with.

[Buffalobiian]

Of course she is. It doesn't matter, however. The world is full of people who think they know better than yourself what makes you happy and they aren't too shy to share their opionions or even force their decisions on others. The saying that the worst deeds are often done with the best of intentions is not rubbish. Ironically enough if you had asked the civilians around the forest for their opinion, they might have shared Maria's view. It's exactly like the populistic politicians that seem to be all the rage in Europe right now. Their promises seem enticing but aren't oft based on realism or are blind to the bigger picture.

I don't quite get what you're trying to say. What I am saying, is that Maria obviously does care about what other people think. She's shocked that people still want to fight, that they think her medicine was poison, and that her actions weren't actually making people happy. She's not self-assured at all.

So if she's so altruistic, she should really listen and think about the feedback she's getting instead of acting on emotion (aptly said, this episode).

My problem with all of this is that her taking action (after some thought) a few episodes ago was supposed to mean she came to some form of realisation. Presumably she decided she was selfish after all and would act on her own terms regardless of what the recipients of her help thought. We're quickly reminded that that's in fact not the case. She does care an awful lot about how her actions affect people. So then, what exactly was the purpose of that whole scene? She's as lost now as she was before her last battle.

What we do know is that Maria has never been going around asking people what they want. She even seemed annoyed by the arrows wish arrows Joseph gathered for her and I don't recall her actually spending lots of time reading them. When others have tried to advice her, she's as stubborn as a mule.

It's work. Everyone gets annoyed at work. Even business owners from time to time.

But there is also something else that doesn't add up. Where did Bernard get this pot of "rape aphrodisiac" to give to Galfa? Where did Gilbert and Bernard get medicine that is as good as Maria's? That's when it hit me.

See, I've always seen Maria as an available healer. Her importance never really struck me as being able to treat diseases that other people couldn't, but either were unavailable to do so or weren't doing it for free.

Everything you said makes sense though.

[Kraco]

I'll bet Galfa's right arm that she's the Church's witch.

Excellent observation. I never spent the time to analyse it and it surely backfired. Good thing you posted it here.

I don't quite get what you're trying to say. What I am saying, is that Maria obviously does care about what other people think. She's shocked that people still want to fight, that they think her medicine was poison, and that her actions weren't actually making people happy. She's not self-assured at all.

She indeed seems to care about what the people think about her and her chosen path, but she still doesn't care about what the people themselves want or wish for. This contradiction suggest high immaturity, but that's hardly anything new. After all, it's the core of all the jokes Artemis keeps cracking. If she was older and wiser, and more jaded, she wouldn't give a damn about what the common rabble thinks about her. Just like a feudal king wouldn't.

[Kraco]

Episode 9 - HS






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Galfa did what he was paid to do without hesitation but he also avoided betraying Joseph 100%. I kind of doubt those two can go back to how they used to be, if Joseph is a man at all and not a Buddha, but seeing how diplomatic Joseph is, I doubt he will have Galfa pick up his glove. I can't believe he was naive, no, stupid enough to go to the count to beg for leniency. Maria has ruined the count's wars so many times that they are practically enemies. The count also wouldn't give a shit about some lowly peasants Maria might have helped, so that's a useless point. Seems like Joseph (and possibly the count if he wasn't simply lying), were misjudging the church. They default on burning a witch. Although that's hardly surprising coming from Joseph who seems to trust everybody and expects the best from each and every person he sees.

Hard to say what will happen next since the priest is so insane. Joseph should have his hands full in any case. He's being sent to the battle again, yet he should concentrate on getting Maria out before she's burned or worse.

Viv trying to fight Michael was pretty funny. I didn't see that coming. Not that the stupid, robot angel wouldn't deserve to be sent down to eat dirt. Too bad I don't see that happening. He seems worlds above the witches in power.

[Ryllharu]

Seems like Joseph (and possibly the count if he wasn't simply lying), were misjudging the church. They default on burning a witch.
...
Hard to say what will happen next since the priest is so insane.

They actually don't default to burning a witch. Bernard wanted to burn her right away, but Gilbert, as their administrator, refused to do so. He was adamant that they follow procedure and proceed with the trial. Her "sins" resulting in any manner of punishments. Though this is likely before the widespread use of the Malleus Maleficarum, Gilbert is probably following the loose collection of rules about prosecuting witches.

This builds even further on Bernard's complete corruption. He doesn't like to follow the very strict adherence to procedures that clergy usually love, he takes commits sins of pride with his stupid cider, and now his little outburst from Maria's short use of logic, and subsequently reverence for Maria from his own baffling delusions.

I was briefly tempted to say that Bernard's temporary loss of faith was absurd. But the guy is clearly unhinged if such a minor thing could cause him to question his faith like a robot contemplating the question of whether God could make a pizza so big that He couldn't eat it. He's never been a very good priest, too focused on political power. He's all talk and no heart. The exact opposite of Gilbert who is sparse on words and big on following the rules and serving (even if who he serves is a fraud). Gilbert at least means well, even if he is too strict.

It was nice to see that Gilbert may have finally realized how corrupt Bernard is, and how Maria tries to exemplify actually doing good works because of her lack of faith in higher powers doing a damn thing to help anyone.

[Kraco]

I didn't get a feeling Gilbert had anything at all against burning Maria. He merely wanted to follow the procedure, which is more logical than not. He looked like a by the book kind of person anyway from the beginning. Bernard obviously wanted to speed things up since he's more interested in finishing his greater plans than any formality. Although who knows now after his delusional discussion with Maria. He might want to burn Maria even more, actually, as his bible is clearly missing more than a few pages, so he might see some greater purpose in burning her, greater than just getting rid of her. For example burning her like a martyr would somehow cement whatever he thinks he got out of that strange conversation.

I didn't actually mean the church as a whole at that point in history. I meant this particular church led by the likes of Bernard and assisted by Gilbert. Obviously the count (and Joseph) thought he knew the church practices normally based on his long life and stuff. He probably didn't anticipate this time the church would rather be following Bernard's plans, not any old customs. Though I suppose that would be the case most of time: Whoever happened to be in charge would decide how things are done, unless restless masses were demanding blood. And unless Vatican had sent in some inquisitors.

Malleus Maleficarum was an interesting book. A long time ago I borrowed it from the university library.

[shinta|hikari]

I don't think Bernard's monologue was as insane as it seemed. He is an intellectual and is well versed in theology. The problem is, theology doesn't really make scientific sense. Maria's seemingly common sense comments actually do hit the largest assumptions made by Christianity. It just so happened Bernard has read more in depth writing on them and started extrapolating on Maria's words.

Maybe he's agnostic now?

[Buffalobiian]

Seems to me like Bernard's reached an epiphany, where he believes that a god exists but also knows that there is no way to confirm that as such - that while his heart believes one exists his actions must do as if one doesn't. Somehow that was extrapolated from "I think, therefore I am". From the very beginning, he was very intrigued that Maria shared the same name as the Holy Virgin, so this is a nice continuation of that fixation.

[Kraco]

Episode 10 - HS



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I didn't like this episode quite as much as all the other eps so far. Bernard suddenly losing interest in Maria might actually make sense since it looked like he got what he wanted, or rather much more, out of her in the previous episode, and in the first place Maria as an individual wasn't originally of much interest to him. He just wanted to get rid of her influence. Maria's attempted burning and saving, however, had zilch impact and thus meaningfulness in my opinion. It could be she realised something during it, but maybe not. I don't know what I wanted to happen there, but something more than this. At least Viv put up a jolly good show, as long as it lasted. Dovey was naturally as useless as ever, since that's her fate.

But what is Galfa thinking? Why would he suddenly attack Joseph, or even hide from him earlier? It's clear Joseph would be angry and accuse him, but why would Galfa go out of his way to avoid any confrontation before suddenly lauching a sneak attack? I guess he pulled one trick too many and along with the murder of the officer, he's actually in a very poor mental condition. Dunno if he's capable of guilt, but it could be fear that's driving him forward now.

Who knows what Joseph should do. One might think growing some balls would be good for him, but would he then anymore get along with Maria? I reckon Joseph being such a naive idealist was the reason why those two could hit it off.

[Ryllharu]

I rather liked this episode.

I didn't expect the young girl to be Edwina's cat, but our Little Inquisitor That Could realized quite definitively that he's been working with witches this whole time. I had hoped he was doing it under the table for the hypocrisy, but I suppose this works just as well.

Edwina's speech made Maria realize that she does it to save people. She was beginning to wonder if she was doing it for selfish reasons, but she remembered that she does it because she knows that people suffer the most during wars. Even if they hate her, even if they'd gladly see her burned, even if they betray her. Scare off bloodthirsty idiots, save the dozen pressed into service next to them.

It's for the same reasons that Viv was screaming at Michael. Witches like Maria and herself love people, and God does not.

Viv looks better without the drills.

[shinta|hikari]

I can't really blame Joseph here. His plan is the most realistic, even if it is still naive. Trying to break Maria out is just ridiculous without superpowers, as seen in this episode. Of course, if he knew she was going to get burned much earlier, he would have risked his life just like the rest of them.

Bernard is not out of the picture yet. He must be planning something after his epiphany.

Galfa's story is very simple. He was an evil bastard from the beginning with embers of a conscience. Having done what he has in the past few episodes, that disappeared. Joseph has become an enemy and an obstacle in his path to glory, so he has to kill him. He was hiding earlier because he was looking for a chance to ambush Joseph without being seen by his comrades. He is killing an ally, after all.

God and his angels are hilarious. They are obviously not all knowing since witches get away with crap all the time, but they are ridiculously powerful. Michael's words are a pile of contradictions. Why do they even care about what witches do in the human world if they treat humans like wheat? Preserving this illogical "order" has become their purpose, but what purpose that "order" serves is lost on me. It's not like the witches can ever compare to them in power, so fear of revolt is out of the picture. It's like they are maintaining rules that are there just so they can be exercised. Does heaven even get anything from maintaining order? Do they get powered by belief just like the other supernatural beings, and by purging those and leaving only the Church they become more powerful? That sort of makes sense if they weren't so OP right now.

I really liked Viv's speech. I also loved the fact that she was ecstatic she could finally say what she always thought. God knows no love. If you look at (their?) reality, that makes perfect sense.

I love Maria. Maria is, in short, different. That is why she is being persecuted. Not for being a witch, but for being an odd witch. Humans have always loved doing that, and that was portrayed perfectly in this episode. People really do love watching executions. People want something to hate, and they'll find any excuse to do it. There are exceptions, but Maria doesn't even care about that. She could have protected her small group of friends without attracting the wrath of heaven, but she chose to pursue her ideals. Granted, her ideals are ridiculous and even more naive than Joseph, but that's still far better than the goals of the asshat humans in the show.

[Kraco]

God and his angels are hilarious. They are obviously not all knowing since witches get away with crap all the time, but they are ridiculously powerful. Michael's words are a pile of contradictions. Why do they even care about what witches do in the human world if they treat humans like wheat? Preserving this illogical "order" has become their purpose, but what purpose that "order" serves is lost on me. It's not like the witches can ever compare to them in power, so fear of revolt is out of the picture. It's like they are maintaining rules that are there just so they can be exercised. Does heaven even get anything from maintaining order? Do they get powered by belief just like the other supernatural beings, and by purging those and leaving only the Church they become more powerful? That sort of makes sense if they weren't so OP right now.

I really liked Viv's speech. I also loved the fact that she was ecstatic she could finally say what she always thought. God knows no love. If you look at (their?) reality, that makes perfect sense.

It seems to me God and his angels are based on the old things, like the ten commandments. That is, a pile of prohibitions, a strict order. A strict order purposefully challenged by the free will to choose between salvation and damnation. Looks like magic isn't included in the free will, probably because it would lessen the faith in the order. When people were as helpless as most were during those times, never even travelling and seeing the world, nothing they did made any difference apart from their own lives. However, a witch with a great magic power would potentially affect the lives of many, so the order is disrupted.

[Buffalobiian]

To be fair, we've never even seen God so who knows what it's thinking. For all we know, Michael's just talking shit and following orders literally from a piece of rock.

Viv looks better without the drills.

Perhaps. But Viv looks good anyway, and fabulous Viv is best.

It's not like the witches can ever compare to them in power, so fear of revolt is out of the picture. It's like they are maintaining rules that are there just so they can be exercised. Does heaven even get anything from maintaining order? Do they get powered by belief just like the other supernatural beings, and by purging those and leaving only the Church they become more powerful? That sort of makes sense if they weren't so OP right now.

It's supposedly God's will to let humans do what they want within their own power. God created man in his little sandbox and wants to see what they do. Then some annoying little sister interferes (don't ask me where she came from, but she's got PowerUser rights) by playing favouritism.

God doesn't play favouritism. That's what you do when you love.

That's what got Maria stumped when Joseph told her to let France win for the greater good. She decided she loves the peace and those who are peaceful more. Those who don't like it can go play with dragons.

God decides all humans are equally worthy so they should go sort their own problems out. Maria was right in saying that if God was universal then he might as well not exist at all. It's always funny to see two medieval armies praying for victory.