Death Parade

[shinta|hikari]

@Ryll -
My idea has less assumptions because I didn't make up a third choice. When given a multiple choice question with only A and B as answers, I think answering C is considered the more out-of the-box one. Even you agree since you said it surprised Ginti in your imagined scenario.

I'm not entirely sure, but has the mask ever flipped after the people were inside the closed elevator? I think it has always stayed how it was. In previous episodes, they only delayed the display of the mask within the camera frame for suspense, but this is the first time it changed post entry. They even zoomed in on the mask switch. If it has no meaning, why waste frames on that? False analogy on the cat, btw.

Who wouldn't be shocked when they see their body disintegrating? Someone who knows they were about to lose it because they chose to do so.

Let's agree to disagree about Ginti's tone.

That leaves two things:

Why did Mayu ask where they were going if she asked to be sent to the void with Harada?

Why did she think that Harada would wake up despite knowing what kind of place the void was?

@Xel - Episode 11 showed two elevators in Ginti's bar. The other one had the devil mask on it. That's why I think the mask switch has meaning. If Mayu intended to go into the void, why didn't they just use the devil elevator 4 paces to the left?

On a different topic, did Ginti also lie when he said that the two were going to where Harada's soul was? Wasn't his soul inside his lifeless body? When the pair fell into the void, his soul popped out from that body, after all. Or did his banished soul go back inside the puppet for a moment when they were in the void, causing Harada to open his eyes for a moment, only to pop back out again after they became complete puppets? After writing it down, the latter sounds like it makes more sense.

[Buffalobiian]

now another thing: i do think that masks aren't always showing the same destination! - it depends on personal interpretation of human being sent. For some being removed from human world might be a reward mind you(when you look at reincarnation - the whole idea is to break out of that cycle) - but for it to be a reward you need to live a 100% good life(no doubts), with no error margin.
This would make sense too - she was sent to void, but together - with someone she truly loves - it was basically the supreme reward for her - even if realistically it is a punishment for everyone else.

So why the change in mask? If the place she was going to was so rewarding, why is there a need to change from Heaven to Hell? Also, if you watched Death Billiard, the old dude smiled triumphantly as he was sent to Hell. I don't think this idea stands.

Ginti rigged the choice to send Mayu to void. there are few clues: Harada was already in void(which is assumption too, mind you), you can't get back from void.
if she chooses to sacrifice the stranger - she goes to void.
if she chooses to sacrifice herself - she goes to void.
she wouldn't ever chose to sacrifice Harada because that would violate her raison d'etre.

I don't think that's the case. Arbiters exist to judge people. They don't just send people to whatever place the people demand, be it void or reincarnation. That would be undermining their role.
-I believe that if Mayu chose to sacrifice herself, she'd have been reincarnated because that shows she's a good person.
-If she chose Light to go to the void, she's dooming someone else for a person she loves. From Ginti's perspective that's selfish and therefore evil.
-If she chose to sacrifice Harada, I see it as being neutral/good. It's letting the natural order of things happen. Whether that would have satisfied Ginti that she'd go to heaven, I don't know.

After watching the episode again, I agree with Shinta. Looking at her hand signifies she made a choice IMO, and holding onto Harada's body suggests that he was expected to have his soul returned (why hold onto it otherwise?).

I'm not entirely sure, but has the mask ever flipped after the people were inside? I think it has always stayed how it was

Never.

My idea has less assumptions because I didn't make up a third choice.

The 3rd choice (sacrificing Mayu) exists, but she quickly declined it after hearing about it. She could well have chosen to void herself ultimately, but I don't think she did. As you said, she wouldn't be asking about their destination after all.

However, in the end the elevator swap still doesn't explain everything. Ginti's all powerful here. He doesn't need to trick anyone into hopping into an elevator. All he has to do is prove they're a bad person (the choice), then say "You're selfish, go to hell". Decim's strung people to their elevators at least once.

It's because of there not being a need to trick that I still wonder if the change in elevator was an after-thought from their final conversation.

[shinta|hikari]

The 3rd choice (sacrificing Mayu) exists, but she quickly declined it after hearing about it. She could well have chosen to void herself ultimately, but I don't think she did. As you said, she wouldn't be asking about their destination after all.

That choice was for Mayu to go to the void, but Harada gets saved. She actually wanted to do that, but Ginti scared her and provided a different choice (B) in its place. That's why I said only choices A (Harada drops) and B (Light drops) exist. If you think C (only Mayu drops) was still on the table, then that's fine. It still doesn't mean that D (both Mayu and Harada drop together... really where did this come from) was ever offered, nor did Ginti have a reason to take such a suggestion from Mayu.

However, in the end the elevator swap still doesn't explain everything. Ginti's all powerful here. He doesn't need to trick anyone into hopping into an elevator. All he has to do is prove they're a bad person (the choice), then say "You're selfish, go to hell". Decim's strung people to their elevators at least once.

It's because of there not being a need to trick that I still wonder if the change in elevator was an after-thought from their final conversation.

He doesn't need to trick Mayu, but it's a lot easier that way. Why force her inside and reveal his own lie (and insecurity) when he can just continue the lie and drop her to the void without hassle? In the first place, physical intervention is a last resort to arbiters. As seen in all the episodes, the first thing they do is trick people with misunderstandings, half-truths, and lies. That's simply what he did.

You know what's funny? I've been arguing about this thing with Ryll, but there are two lines in the episode that practically cement that Mayu would never let Harada fall into the void, with or without her.

Ginti: "What kind of person would it take (referring to substitute) to cast Harada in the void?
Mayu: "Sore dake wa zettai ni dame." (translates to: That is absolutely not possible/not an option.) HS's "There's no way I'd do that." is fine too.

How can you expect me to believe that she chose to drop both of them into a place she feared herself and declared she would never put Harada in right after this exchange?

[Buffalobiian]

I suppose. In the end I decided that it was a case of "I need to see it in action, words are not strong enough" that Decim also abided by - hence the need to see her into the elevator.

[shinta|hikari]

You could also say that he wanted to ask his final question about why Harada was so valuable to Mayu. Mayu would find it hard to answer coherently, much less honestly, if she had been pressed against the elevator wall using PK.

[Xelbair]

So why the change in mask? If the place she was going to was so rewarding, why is there a need to change from Heaven to Hell? Also, if you watched Death Billiard, the old dude smiled triumphantly as he was sent to Hell. I don't think this idea stands.

Because for her it was akin to heaven, and when the elevator closed it either returned to objective state(void) or to ginti's subjective status(void).

[Buffalobiian]

Because for her it was akin to heaven, and when the elevator closed it either returned to objective state(void) or to ginti's subjective status(void).

And what about in Death Billiard, where the dude smiled as he was sent to the void? The mask there didn't change at all either. I don't think this theory stands because participants aren't necessarily told where they're going, so subjective feelings about their destination affecting the mask would be strange.

[Xelbair]

why so? he wanted to go to void, but it wasn't a reward for him.

[Buffalobiian]

...

Explain how that's the case. He smiled like he won. That's not an altruistic smile.

[Ryllharu]

They go out in the same elevators they came in, because it doesn't matter. It is intentionally ambiguous.

The younger guy won the game, but in 'killing' the old man while in Quindecim, he was judged as unworthy and sent to hell. The old man is smiling because he knew he won the true game they were playing. Decim states he ignored their past when the younger guy accuses him of pre-judgment(interestingly, something Nona reprimands him for in the series) and that they came into the bar on equal footing.

Decim deliberately doesn't tell Chiyuki which went where when she asks.

That's because the masks don't mean anything in the OVA.


...and they don't mean a whole hell of a lot in the series overall (because they often don't show them), but they decided to change that a bit to make it a bit easier for the viewers who don't want to have to think about which it is for the less conventional cases.

- Mayu was sent to the void with Harada, but for her it is heaven. That's why it switches. It is an ambiguous result. A seeming punishment, but yet it is actually a reward.
- Harada, redeemed slightly, finally found a woman who cherishes him for nothing more than who he is, and that alone. Not because he's an idol, not because he's famous, not because he is attracted to her, not because he's a good lay, just because he is Harada. Still punished for being an asshole, but a minor reward for his redeeming actions to try and save Mayu as she fell.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 12

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This was a good episode in that I got teary and we finally see Chiyuki off with a decision. However overall all the story does is explore judgements without coming to any real conclusion. I was expecting a conclusion or an answer to all this philosophical exploring they did, so by definition I'm disappointed.

Character interactions were lovely to watch for 12 episodes. I would still recommend this show for a bit of something different. Sadly for all the build-up we don't see Decim revolutionising judgement, nor do we see a ruined Arbiter as a result of breaking the 4th rule.

[shinta|hikari]

That is exactly how I felt. I would change my evaluation if there was a 2nd season though.

Creepy flower hair dude is creepy.

Cute Nona is cute.

If you want a story with proper build up and conclusion, watch Shirobako. I've been finishing a bunch of series one after another, and so far , that's the only one that has a nicely executed ending, excluding Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso because that deserves a separate category.

I don't like asspull explanations for mysteries, but I also don't appreciate having a story that revolves around mystery and not resolving the most critical ones in the end.

[Buffalobiian]

Ryll will tell us that resolving things on screen is only for those who need help. -_-

[shinta|hikari]

-_- Yeah, whatever.

[neflight86]

Great ending to a great series in my opinion. The whole situation was the result of a mistake to begin with and its not like Decim is in any position to change how things are on a large scale, but with the bittersweet separation of the two I feel at peace that he has adapted some of her principles to become a more hospitable, insightful arbiter. That's the most lasing impression their working relationship can have on him since his memories are periodically wiped anyway.

*edit: Also, props to Funimation for the likewise stellar simuldub (-5 weeks) for this one.