Aldnoah.Zero

[shinta|hikari]

Maybe the Emperor was also racist, and at that time blinded by grief. Saazbaum could have simply said that Slaine is a spy without mentioning the princess (because he has no way of knowing), then followed up after Slaine left.

[KrayZ33]

He shouldn't have been able to give such a convincing argument without learning what Slaine knows before he said it

Wouldn't it be enough for him to say something along the lines of: "Spies have infiltrated our empire and we have reports of them trying to cause an infighting between our troops."

Well.. something like that

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 06

---------------------------








They're still keeping Lt Marito out of the battle. I was really expecting the last shot to be made by him and not Slaine. The day he overcomes his trauma is the day the group gets a real soldier I suppose. On the other hand, Inaho is also an adept marksman.

I enjoy Inko's screen-time the most. They're simply non-heavy and easy to digest.

[shinta|hikari]

I could go on a nitpicking hey day from this episode but I won't. Nitpicking by definition is petty anyway.

I hope Slaine meets the princess in the next episode. He deserves some reward for all the trouble he has had to go through. It looks like princess X Inaho is out, and I hope it stays that way.

Those Mazinger rocket punches were hilarious. They were an obvious nod to the old mecha show, but nowadays it just looks retarded. It's funny how the rule of cool evolves as years pass.

[Ryllharu]

I felt the reveal that the Colonel being the dead solider's sister was pretty hackneyed. Totally unnecessary. They'd been hinting at the fact that Magbaredge and Marito had something going on, but if they were exes, that would have been better than what we just got. Just as clichéd, but better.

I agree with Buff about Inko, but I feel like the death flag on her is huge. They'll do it too, just for cheap (and again unnecessary) drama points.

It was interesting that Inaho could easily shoot the horizon-following fists, but struggled with the one coming from above. It should have been the opposite. I would have understood if he was having difficulty deflecting it, but he couldn't even hit it.

I also assume from Eddelrittuo's comment about piloting a kataphract, that she's as much bodyguard as she is lady-in-waiting. It is funny that she keeps accidentally blowing the princess' cover.

[KrayZ33]

It was interesting that Inaho could easily shoot the horizon-following fists, but struggled with the one coming from above. It should have been the opposite.

Hmmm, now that I think about it, why?



the lines should clarify it (circle = the ship's bridge)

[Ryllharu]

I'm not really sure what your image is trying to project, but your vectors seem off.

The fists are coming at the carrier's tower (and Inaho), so they're coming right at him, while he's firing from a relative elevated position. Your image shows a distinct target being fired at, not one headed toward the elevated position you're on. I think to properly represent it, you'd have to draw the vectors from standing on a tower (with the lower targets aimed at the base of that tower), and it would be two separate images.

The difficulty is the horizon-following fists are moving toward him from a distance, so he has to continually depress to keep tracking it. While the overhead target is moving almost entirely downward, keeping the firing position steady. The overhead target should function the same way a Goalkeeper or Phalanx CIWS work (with a lower rate of fire obviously). The horizon-following targets operate the same way that a CIWS system is weaker to (modern anti-ship weapons), and should be more difficult to intercept.

[KrayZ33]

They are all going for the tower which is a few steps away from him, just like the circle
You need to lead the target significantly less because there is no "up to down" motion
I could draw the line comming from above with a right angel to clarify it more.

If they were comming "right at him" as you said, then there wouldn't be any difference. the targets are following a straight path after all. Inaho would see a dot getting bigger and bigger as they come closer.

The horizon-following targets operate the same way that a CIWS system is weaker to (modern anti-ship weapons)

source? I don't get the reason why, makes no sense for me tbh..

[Ryllharu]

I think the circle is still too far to accurately represent it. And you have to be at an elevated position (relative to the fists) firing on a target following the ground to the base of your elevated position.

Changes it substantially.


EDIT:

I'll use a water tower because images are easy to find and the elevation is close.


The circle on the first image is not on the street at ground level, but at the same height as the observer (I should have put it halfway off the image).

[KrayZ33]

. And you have to be at an elevated position (relative to the fists) firing on a target following the ground to the base of your elevated position.

but then its the same thing as if they were comming from above lol, the only difference is that its downward diagonal and not upward diagonal

edit: I don't get that picture of yours tbh
the Mechs are pretty much on the same level as the bridge so it should look like in my picture if he faces the target

[Ryllharu]

Re: CIWS weakness

CIWS fires continually to damage the target and throw it off course (as they were doing here). The stream of bullets hammers a missile and eventually destroys the warhead or aerodynamics. Most CIWS systems can only depress so far, so surface-trajectory targets have a very short time to be fired on.

Because the bullets are being at it instead of the missile running into them, it is also less effective (sides of the missile instead of the front). Once it gets too close, the weapon can't fire at all. Modern anti-ship missiles also move instead of following a straight path. The more the target moves, the harder it is to get a hail of fire on it.

CIWS systems are reactive, they can't anticipate where an erratic target will be. They essentially can't lead a target moving dynamically. But they do process it so fast it works anyway. Ballistic targets are obviously the easiest. The second radar in the system tracks outgoing rounds and "walks" them onto the target.

CIWS systems were made for a ballistic trajectory (the right image in my last post). Worldwide, they are being upgraded for the surface trajectories, or replaced.

[KrayZ33]

I don't think that helps me to understand the situation

Most CIWS systems can only depress so far, so surface-trajectory targets have a very short time to be fired on.

what is that even supposed to mean?

I can only speak of my own experience in computer games, but horizontal targets are always easier to hit than stuff that is flying in an up and down motion and not directly at you.


this is what it could've looked like for Inaho, I can't show the one from above properly because he wouldn't be facing it...

It's probably just as easy to hit and only slightly more difficult, however I don't believe it to be easier, you could argue that its more difficult by default because of how you'd have to set up your shooting position

[Buffalobiian]

what is that even supposed to mean?

It means that the guns have a limited angle when aiming downwards. They have to pick off targets before they move within minimum range. It's a fact that doesn't actually sway either argument though.

[KrayZ33]

It means that the guns have a limited angle when aiming downwards. They have to pick off targets before they move within minimum range. It's a fact that doesn't actually sway either argument though.

Okay, then I actually understood it correctly...I didn't/don't get what this has to do with what we've seen though

edit: it also means that this

The horizon-following targets operate the same way that a CIWS system is weaker to (modern anti-ship weapons)

doesn't apply

[Buffalobiian]

Firstly, Ryll, I don't think the fists were as near sea level as you thought they were. See this pic where the fist actually seemed to aim towards the actual bridge and Inaho knocked it off course towards his left.



The bridge also isn't as tall relative to the mech as the water tower would suggest. It's between double and triple the height of the mech.



---------------------
Image A.

Image A depicts what Ryll originally said, where a projectile is launched from the horizon (point 1) towards somewhere left of and below the shooter (point 2).

However, you could argue that the fist's target is actually above the shooter, making Krayz33's last pic somewhat more representative.


---------------------
Image B.


Image B depicts a fist falling from the sky from point 1 to strike a tower (2-3x the height) next to the shooter at point B. Note the stone pillar is obscured by the gun animation, but this view was chosen as the bridge is also on the right of Inaho.

It's tough to argue the true trajectory of the rocket though, as the animation makes it unclear. The radar from the bridge suggests a vertical drop, while Inaho's view suggests a more diagonal trajectory.

One could also argue that only the first misdirected fist was aimed at the bridge, and that the rest were just aimed to take down the ship.

[Ryllharu]

And you both honestly believe Buff's Image A is easier to target?!

Try to actually hit a fast moving target coming at you...quickly while it skims across the ground.



When it is yellow, you probably can't accurately hit it, but its relative speed appears low enough that you might be able to lead it accurately.

The red line is when you can effectively hit it while it cruises along the water.

Once it turns red and pink, you're fucked. It's moving too fast to hit it because it is too close and moving at too high a relative speed.

[Buffalobiian]

And you both honestly believe Buff's Image A is easier to target?!

I'm not sure which is easier, so I only posted pics for clarification as opposed to backing up a particular argument.

Experience-wise, sniping while the enemy moves at a slower angle per second has always been easier, so it would suggest Image B.

The other side of the argument is that despite the shot being easier, Inaho was losing concentration by then. He's under pressure as well after all.

edit: I can't unsee the Kamehameha now.

[Ryllharu]

Okay, let's try this, since you are both basing your opinions entirely off Battlefield and not, you know, actually firing a gun at a moving target (like shooting a running squirrel...which is hard as fuck).

Battlefield lets you shoot down cruise missiles with LMGs. Unbelievable as that is, you can. Which is easier: hitting one coming down or hitting one zipping along the ground? For a better comparison, could you shoot down a tank shell coming at you? I know the game doesn't allow it, but could you even do it if you could? Bet not.

Also, you do both realize how slowed down BF is compared to the real thing, right?

edit:
A nice video of a real thing added.
and another. The solid rocket booster of a cruise missile isn't that fast, but once they go, they go.

[shinta|hikari]

The other side of the argument is that despite the shot being easier, Inaho was losing concentration by then. He's under pressure as well after all.

That makes sense. People aren't robots. Sometimes you miss shots you would normally make, due to various internal or external factors, or even just basic human inconsistency. Athletes are a good example.

[KrayZ33]

Ryll

1. you could also move (1) in Image B to the left and a bit higher it would look even harder...
2. image B shows what it looks like if the fist hits the hull of the ship, not the bridge...
3. the fist/missle being fast applies to both cases.... the one on ground level just "looks" faster for obvious reasons. I'd even go so far and say that since they are flying on ground level, they are easier to hit with reaction shots because you can grasp the velocity *much* easier...

Okay, let's try this, since you are both basing your opinions entirely off Battlefield and not, you know, actually firing a gun at a moving target (like shooting a running squirrel...which is hard as fuck).

really bad comparison, hitting a squirrel thats running *towards* you on a rope that is spun 2 feet away from you at chest/head high level is most likely not that difficult either, I wouldn't know though, I don't shoot animals for fun :P

Also, you do both realize how slowed down BF is compared to the real thing, right?

yes, I still need to lead targets though, sometimes 2-3 times (or even more) the size of the vehicle, so what? In the end I'd say its pretty much impossible to hit a missle with a sniperrifle too, but just like Inaho, I can do that in BF.

Lets also consider the position you have to be in to shoot a target directly above your head... not comfortable, who knows, maybe the Mechs can't even rotate accordingly (funny enough I believe in Buffs case, he wouldn't be able to hit the missle at all.. the arc you are able to shoot at is probably ~150° vertically )