That's obvious bias then. If you judge attraction and maturity based on intelligence, the intelligent loli (and therefore mature loli) should be well within the strike zone.
What you said in the last sentence completely contradicts what you said before it. Attraction (or in this case, repulsion) is based completely on physical appearances (of the loli).
Peace.
Originally Posted by shinta|hikari
Which is why I hate said loli. I dont want to be attracted to that. I dont want anyone to create a character that creates such attraction. lol
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
People who find it hilarious, like that Ryllharu asshole.
Again, there is a very fine line between stuff like Qwaser, Queen's Blade, DxD, Daimidaler, Ladies x Butlers, Sekai de Ichiban Tsuyoku Naritai and trash like Maken-Ki or the Elfen Lied manga.
I'm not 100% sure it's even something that can really be quantified, but if I had to guess, it is something about pandering to fetishes instead of doing a few well.
- Qwaser (sucking on titties)
- Diamidaler (rubbing titties)
- Sunabouzu (appreciation of big titties)
- Daphne in the Brilliant Blue (skintight clothing)
- Sekai de Ichiban ("girls in agony" ...their words, not mine)
- Those Who Hunt Elves (stripping elves)
- Even series like Brynhildr (foot fetishists, he only gets kicked in the face, never slapped)
All of these are fine, because they pick something, and do it well. Some of them are even quite over the top, but the manage to keep their plot going while still centering around their particular fetish to exploit.
Stuff like Maken-ki or the Elfen Lied manga just throw everything at the viewer/reader and do none of it well.
- Maken-ki has characters that cover a half-dozen fetishes each.
- The much-worse-than-its-anime Elfen Lied manga just goes into random shit in the latter half for no apparent reason at all. There are characters that are shoehorned in merely to hit the fetish bingo.
These kind of series fail because their purpose becomes the ecchi variety, and they are too busy trying to appeal to all the perverts that the plot becomes secondary. Characters have no depth, they're just tick marks on a checklist. Even their fetish appeals are pushed aside simply so they can hit on more of them. Quantity over quality. In the end, these kinds of series do nothing well.
Nono. This thread isn't about what we hate. It's about what prevents us from recommending a show to others.
I don't hate fanservice at all. Because I'm a big stupid manbaby. But I wouldn't recommend something with a ton of fanservice to anyone I know because I don't need them thinking I'm a big stupid manbaby any more than they already do.
That said, there are specific types of fanservice, targeted at specific fetishes that I absolutely DO hate.
Last edited by DarthEnderX; Mon, 05-05-2014 at 08:47 PM.
Would you ever recommend Qwaser to a friend or family member, Ryll?
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
In my opinion, in the last 6-8 years, Anime has become an order of magnitude more watchable for both myself and those ‘without the gift’ of tolerance for the love of animation.
As far as themes that are uncomfortable, incest and pseudo-pedophilia are really the only ones that I still sigh and roll my eyes at. Not quite for loli as a concept, but the three are often not far from each other, so the association is there.
I am an evangelist for the things I enjoy, anime viewing included. I think to myself that the best way to enjoy something you love even more is to share it with someone else who may come to like it as well. On these terms I also judge anime aside from my own preferences, as I make it a point to mentally record viewing preferences of those I’m (personally) close to. I expect many of you might feel this way, too.
Explicit fanservice and objectification is a typical disqualification for shared viewing, as it would not reflect my entertainment choices in a positive light to share shows depicting scantily clad minors forced into compromising situations commonly enough to be a trope; even if I reluctantly suggest the play on innocence is the main objective of such a show. As such, essentially all rom-com and harem shows of late are out for being so prominently hostile to my western sensibilities.
Oddly (but perhaps not strangely) enough, I also penalize works that tactlessly use animation and manga techniques sloppily: namely stark proportion/chibi changes and simplified shading for dramatic/comical effect.
An example is in order: FMA:B and FLCL. Both of these series display characters lashing out in over exaggerated caricatures in response to somewhat predictable stimuli. Why does one make me sick to my stomach (FMA:B), and the other doesn’t faze me? I believe it is due to how well each (example) services its respective work. In FMA, I could count on one elbow how many of Ed’s outbursts brought even a smirk to my face or made me think “This sure makes me enjoy this show more”. The rest of the show is completely divorced from them and they only serve to ham-fist in comedic relief in such sporadic and jarring transitions that they are doomed to failure. All of the strong narrative, the themes of hope, struggle, repentance, the tone, and the generally great animation juxtaposition next to that, and it creates an unevenness that does not serve the story, much less make it more watchable. In short, almost all of the simplified animation techniques used in FMA serve to at best destroy the watcher’s immersion, and at worst reflect poorly on anime as a whole. I still think it’s a modern classic; I just couldn’t recommend it to an acquaintance knowing that they might be turned off by that aspect even ½ as much as I was.
FLCL, in my opinion, does this sort of thing right by matching the ebb and flow of the episodes to a perfect tempo of rise and climax. That, coupled with the generally less heavy-handed dialogue and scenarios makes FLCL feel more like a cartoon in the sense that it invites viewers to pick out what they like from the madness on display, instead of baiting and switching them with jarring exposition, or at least doing it often enough that a detractor could abandon all hope of enjoying it within ½ of an episode. Don’t get me wrong; there aren’t enough controlled substances in this hemisphere to make me think recommending this to an uninitiated out of the blue would be a good idea, but I would not be as embarrassed to watch it with someone willing to try it as I would the above. I would just forewarn that it is ‘pretty zany’.
In short; I know animation can be fantastical; it’s been done, and done well. Please show me how your story, character, or setting… your ideas, really can be amazing and enhanced with the techniques of animation… not that you think I won’t laugh at your straight man jokes if they are delivered by something resembling a human being (or whatever is telling jokes nowadays).
Off of the soapbox…
That was the major one. Other general annoyances include:
Talking animals – I believe I could enjoy this when I was young, and Kyuubi was unnerving in Madoka, but as a trope (sidekick) it just feels tired.
The entire “Dude paired with a combat loli” genre (that’s a genre, right?): After the original GSG, this trope became steadily less interesting as no authors were willing to introduce new story elements aside from the idea that being a battle loli is tough and unfair and kinda sad… boo hoo… They might as well format them like a buddy cop movie, as I always felt that fun, upbeat stories suit the perky lolis more.
Emo characters. This is a tough one, because it can be done right or it can be done so so so wrong, and I struggle to differentiate why! I think, though, that it is actually the level of moping that separates, in my eyes, the tolerable troubled from the helplessly hedonistic. Works with an ‘emotionally scarred’ lead get extra scrutiny from me during its opening scenes as I determine (guess, really) if I feel I’ll be able to engage with a show or movie based around this (its) depiction of unhappiness.
@Darth - You don't hate fanservice, but do you like it? Would you specifically watch a show because of fanservice? Because the shows out there seem to indicate that is the case with its target audience.
I said "we hate fanservice" because I was thinking that "we" get the recommendation, since I did ask what anime you would not recommend to anime fans.
@Ryll - I personally cannot see the difference between those. I honestly try to give these shows a try, maybe 4-6 episodes, before I really just cannot tolerate it anymore. I did watch Qwaser to the end though, so that counts for something.
Peace.
Yes.
No. I have porn for that.
For example, Highschool of the Damned has a ton of fanservice, but I started watching the show because the concept seemed interesting. The fact that I grew to like the females in the cast, and then got to see fanservice focused on them, is great. But I would never start watching a show in the first place just because of that.
If someone said, "Hey, you should watch this show, it's got lots of sexy girls who's clothes fall off a lot" my answer is "Or I could just go watch hentai..."
I could recommend it to somebody who watches lots of anime (but I don't have such friends or family members). I wouldn't recommend it to somebody who watches anime only occasionally because there would be lots of higher quality shows they could use their limited time on. Though I haven't watched the second season, but Qwaser did have a plot and action, not only girls parading with bare tits.
Probably not...but then again, Qwaser is over the top just enough for it to cross into absurd territory. That's what makes it funny enough to be watchable. Like the fact that Sasha often does a dragonball-style power-up scream (Uwoaaaaaaaaa!!!) while sucking on breasts.
Of everything on that list, Qwaser (surprisingly) and Daphne are the two worth recommending to family.
edit:
Qwaser falls into the "Do you want to see something hilariously bad?" category. Daphne falls into the watchable but potentially offensive due to ecchiness territory.
Last edited by Ryllharu; Tue, 05-06-2014 at 03:17 AM.
Lolis are fine, as long as they aren't sexualized.
One sided incest is fine, but fulfilled one is... weird.
Fanservice - depends on how absurd it is, and its focus - like Ryll said there is very thin line between shit and "so bad that is good".
When it comes to fetishes - if it is all in moderation ,or there is focus on one or two its fine... but not when they are added just to get more ppl to buy their stuff.
i also HATE censoring that is just there so ppl will buy blurays - it is fine if you are watching BD and are few seasons behind but it is still annoying.
now i'm also repulsed by classic Rie Style tsundere. There were too many of them, now if i hear voice remotely similar in tone i cringe irl.
I don't get why people dislike the noblewoman's laugh - it can be overused.. but when its in 'moderation' (Naga @ Slayers) it is great. Heck - it can be even used as weapon.
I also slowly get put off by retarded misunderstandings - but it is because it was, and still is, overused trope. Some series (Nisekoi manga for example) break this trope sometimes and it is... refreshing.
Number of works of fiction that made me shed at least one tear: 3Thou seeketh soul power, dost thou not?TOX: 33524385841A92B08787EEBEBA2DB51ED293C4F15A2E292F3F C92165E82388281433A77EA8FE
There's no such thing.
Just because there's a young girl in an anime, doesn't automatically make that character a loli. Lolis are, by definition, characters designed to appeal to lolicons. It's the sexualization of a young girl that makes her character a loli.
disagree. Obviously, you can sexualize young girls by using certain camera angles and such, but there´s a difference between just showing off a loli, and actually sexualizing one. Cant think of examples for the former, but for the latter. Like the sister in No game no Life. The creator gave her a cold, mature personality, despite her being a prepubecsent girl. THAT is the kind of shit loli that I hate.
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
Does a loli have to be sexualized to appeal to lolicons? Isn't being a lolicon by definition liking little girls, regardless of sexualization?
Peace.
I used to think like that, but then I took too many hits from the reality. A person with no lolicon mentality would enjoy watching kids being kids in anime (assuming the person doesn't consider young characters annoying), never seeing anything more than that in it, but for lolicons they are all sexualised by default. It's all in the eye of the beholder, regardless of what the story author / director wanted.
I agree. Fresh meat in front of a lion, no matter how it is presented, will still be perceived as food.
Peace.
I agree with that. But whether the character is a loli or not is based on author's intention. Lolicons will sexualize a young girl character whether it's a loli or not.
The sexualization doesn't even have to be overt. The character basically just has to exist purely to provide service to Lolicons. I think a character like Wendy in Fairy Tail is an example of this. I don't think that character would exist in that form if Mashima wasn't trying to check off boxes on a list of target audiences.
I dunno. I have always thought that loli = little girl. Maybe even loli = looks like a little girl, because so many lolis out there are either vampires, witches, or gods that do not look their age.
Peace.
Would Kyon's sister be considered a loli?
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
Peace.
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