Spoiler tag debate.

[shinta|hikari]

The thing is, previews aren't spoilers. They are released at the same time as the content. They are part of the episode. It is basically a teaser to invite viewers to watch the next episode. There really is no decent argument that will support making previews as actual spoilers.

I am willing to adjust so that those who do not watch previews are not "spoiled", but that does not mean that I believe that previews are spoilers. It just means that I can compromise because I never felt that strongly in the first place.

[Kraco]

I still feel like the hatred and unwillingness to budge might be a little bit of an over-reaction, but I understand the situation now.

It's an on/off situation, so changing the opinion means a 180 degrees turn. Such a situation easily leads to overreacting.

[Edort4]

So...you actually think stopping watching the episode AFTER the credits before the thing that is specifically intended to be a spoiler for the next episode somehow equates to stopping in the middle of the episode?

In essence (being reductionist) it is. IMHO there are two major ways of spoiling.

1º Someone has seen a show/movie/whatever and it explains its content to someone who hasnt yet. But I doubt that the one who hasnt seen that yet would complain of being spoiled after going of his own free will into a content discussion thread.

2º In periodically aired shows/movies/books/films/whatever some people search for or have access to material outside the original source (episodes) that is being discussed and then goes spoiling it.

The case that was the origin for this debate falls in neither of those categories. No one had EXTRA material from outside thee original source nor did a search etc. It was ppl cutting themselves out from some material in that source. So its not one individual having information than shouldnt have (the information to spoil) its that someone has decided on his own to cut himself from some information that show provides.

Would you call it a spoiler (for example) in the Thor 2 movie discussion thread (if it exists) that people are talking/discussing about the scenes after the credits if you decided to not watch them just cause you want?

And this rises the other question: what right do you (do they?) have to ask (or impose) that other ppl cant discuss over something that you (they?) decided to cut yourself out from the material? Cause it could be as good manners to stop doing that non-spoiling as it would be good manners to stop whinning about something that you (they?) selfishly like to do.

ps. All the You in this post dont target a specific gotwooter. I use it only to express two different possitions/points of view. My english is lacking so its hard for me to do it better. Would, what I wrote in (), be more formal/impersonal?

[MFauli]

As already explained at length, I believe that the current state of HXH demands special treatment in terms of previews. We´re at a point where one episode contains like 10 seconds of realtime events. The episode where Zeno and Netero entered the battle would have been infinitely more impactful if it hadn´t been spoiled in the preview. Meanwhile, because I had stopped watching previews, the episode where Gon and Killua finally approached Pitou was super awesome. Had I watched the preview I would have known that already, and all I´d be left with would have been an interesting, but expected dialogue. A good comparison would be the final episode of Death Note. Imagine the preview had shown how Light dies. Would it still have been an interesting episode? Sure. But going into it with knowing about a character´s death just ruins tension and emotional impact.

The movies-analogy is terribad, because nobody refutes to watch those after-credits scenes just for the slim chance of it being relevant in a movie-sequel several years down the road.

Yes, fuck your garbage interests and unwillingness to use the search function.

Get lost, idiot.

[DarthEnderX]

There really is no decent argument that will support making previews as actual spoilers.

There absolutely is, you just don't understand what being spoiled means.

By your definition, trailers don't spoiler movies because they're a thing that is released. Even though tons of people refuse to watch trailers because lots of movie studios don't know how to make trailers without spoiling important plot events(see, things like Ender's Game, etc.)

What you don't seem to understand is that some of us want to get the same experience the manga readers had(where they don't show you a week ahead of time what's going to be in the next chapter) from the anime.

I don't want to KNOW that suchandsuch character shows up to save the day when I had no idea about it. But they showed the fucker in the preview so now the ENTIRETY of that episode has no tension for me anymore because I already know what's going to happen.

I don't understand why you don't get that people find being surprised a pleasant experience, and that preserving that is somehow no decent argument.

And this rises the other question: what right do you (do they?) have to ask (or impose) that other ppl cant discuss over something that you (they?) decided to cut yourself out from the material? Cause it could be as good manners to stop doing that non-spoiling as it would be good manners to stop whinning about something that you (they?) selfishly like to do.

This is the dumbest argument I've ever read.

You're basically saying "Hey, you know how you hate it when that guy on the subway punches you in the face? Well what right do you have to complain and ruin his face punching good time?"

[Kraco]

You're basically saying "Hey, you know how you hate it when that guy on the subway punches you in the face? Well what right do you have to complain and ruin his face punching good time?"

You need to punch him back or you are disrespecting him. He expects to be punched back, and if it doesn't happen, he won't have his face punching good time.

[shinta|hikari]

@DE - I did not write the last paragraph you quoted, so please edit that.

I guess we are simply defining spoilers differently. I am defining it in the context of this forum and its rules, while you are defining it in general. I perfectly understand your case about trailers and the like, I am just saying that you have to live with it in this case because the alternative is preventing people from watching and discussing previews. The spoiler tag is unnecessary because manually noting the succeeding text is a spoiler then changing the font to white can accomplish that.

Let's keep the solution as simple and hassle free as we can.

[Ryllharu]

This is about next episode previews ffs.

Now matter how much you might want it to be counted as a spoiler, it's never going to be. The episode is a complete package, previews and all.

Everyone gets access to the same information at the same time (which is why in contrast, Raw discussions are spoilers because not everyone is fluent in Japanese). If you are willfully not watching the preview, quit your whining or fuck off. So long as the preview is in the released episodes, they're not spoilers. It's like saying anything in the OP/ED is a spoiler, that's how fucking stupid and juvenile this is.

Web-only previews? That I'll admit is a grey area.

[darkshadow]

So this thread is about episode previews? Hhahahahahahahahaha....jesus christ gotwoot..

[MFauli]

This is about next episode previews ffs.

Now matter how much you might want it to be counted as a spoiler, it's never going to be. The episode is a complete package, previews and all.

Everyone gets access to the same information at the same time (which is why in contrast, Raw discussions are spoilers because not everyone is fluent in Japanese). If you are willfully not watching the preview, quit your whining or fuck off. So long as the preview is in the released episodes, they're not spoilers. It's like saying anything in the OP/ED is a spoiler, that's how fucking stupid and juvenile this is.

Web-only previews? That I'll admit is a grey area.

So once a videogame is released, it´s okay to talk about all of its content, even when it´s highly likely that many people have not yet reached that point in the game? Sounds fair.

:|

[Ryllharu]

So once a videogame is released, it´s okay to talk about all of its content, even when it´s highly likely that many people have not yet reached that point in the game? Sounds fair.

:|

Take a look at any FSN-related thread. The rules are different. No one discusses the game in the anime threads, even though it is from 2004.

Games are not anime. Even VNs in general are discussed in only vague statements.

We do actually use common sense here at gotwoot. This request exceeds common sense.

edit:
Movies are treated the same as anime episodes. Once it is out in theaters, it's fair game. Even when Europe or America gets the respective film a month in advance. Expect DS to kline you from IRC if you spoil a movie though, but IRC isn't the forums.

[DarthEnderX]

I also don't understand this notion of "not letting people talk about the preview kills discussion" when it's pretty much the exact opposite of that.

Case in point, the situation that started this discussion went something like:

User1: Oh man, I wonder how he's gonna deal with this situation?
User2: Maybe he's gonna do this thing?
User1: Yeah, that could work.
User3: It's also possible that he'd have to do this.
User4: The preview shows him doing this.
*discussion assassinated because there's literally nothing left to talk about at that point*

@DE - I did not write the last paragraph you quoted, so please edit that.

Oop, you're right, sorry.

I guess we are simply defining spoilers differently. I am defining it in the context of this forum and its rules, while you are defining it in general.

Fair enough. But understand that the whole reason I made this thread is because I'm pleading a case for this forum and it's rules to have the same definition of spoilers as the general definition of spoilers.

I fully understand that that's not the case, and the mods aren't likely to change it, but I made the thread to explain my point of view anyway.

The argument of "that's just the way they're doing it, deal with it" is not a rational argument, and therefor not one I'm prepared to accept.

Everyone gets access to the same information at the same time (which is why in contrast, Raw discussions are spoilers because not everyone is fluent in Japanese). If you are willfully not watching the preview, quit your whining or fuck off. So long as the preview is in the released episodes, they're not spoilers.

Again, this argument is basically like saying "Manga readers should be able to discuss the manga in the anime threads because, hey, that information is out there, it's not the manga readers fault that people are willfully not reading the manga and waiting for the anime!"

I just don't see the reason why whatever scenes are contained in the preview can't be discussed in the next weeks thread after it's actually, you know, aired in it's full context.

It's like saying anything in the OP/ED is a spoiler

Well, it usually is. If anyone said "don't discuss One Piece openings cause they're always full of spoilers" then I wouldn't.

So this thread is about episode previews?

Sorry, but some people give a shit.

I literally know, like, zero people in real life that wouldn't punch a person in the throat if they tried to talk about a Breaking Bad episode preview before they'd seen the next episode.

Movies are treated the same as anime episodes. Once it is out in theaters, it's fair game.

Well, that's a terrible policy too.

Maybe I haven't decided whether I want to even see a movie yet, and I want to get opinions on people who've seen it as to whether it's good or not. Of course, if there's no spoilers, I can't go to the movie's thread for that, because if it was good, I also know everything that happens in it already, so why bother going?

[Edort4]

This is the dumbest argument I've ever read.

You're basically saying "Hey, you know how you hate it when that guy on the subway punches you in the face? Well what right do you have to complain and ruin his face punching good time?"

I dont even know where to start with this comparison. There are no words to froce sense into the brain that created this pararelism so I wont even try . If you think that not wanting someone to do something that you dislike(subjectively) is the same as being hit I cant help it. Just burn after reading.

You need to punch him back or you are disrespecting him. He expects to be punched back, and if it doesn't happen, he won't have his face punching good time.

I guess its contagious. We have some guys here that think that is cool to force other people to not discuss (or avoid it) about something from an actual episode (I dont give a fuck if its minute 1 or 24) because they dont like it, a selfish infatuation, and if you tell them that they are forcing that on you they even get mad an start relating you to some kind of aggression paralelisms. At least no one used the nazi word yet

ps. I dont actually give a fuck about preview, never watch them cause I get sick of seeing the same endings again and again, and lately the ending music is garbage. But its part of the episode. So the normal is that it gets (or could get) inside an episode discussion. Asking to avoid it is the aberrant action.

[Ryllharu]

Again, this argument is basically like saying "Manga readers should be able to discuss the manga in the anime threads because, hey, that information is out there, it's not the manga readers fault that people are willfully not reading the manga and waiting for the anime!"

Bad comparison. Manga spoilers, and even some comparisons, are explicitly banned by the rules.

Btw...speaking of the rules:

•Revealing the titles of upcoming arcs or upcoming episode titles which contain spoilers. Obviously doesn't apply when an anime episode preview makes this title clear. Some arc/episode titles may not reveal anything about the future of an anime, but some do, and it's just best not to name them in anime only sections.

Emphasis mine. The inference is obvious. Previews are fair game. Only raws are considered spoilers when it comes to the episodes themselves.

I just don't see the reason why whatever scenes are contained in the preview can't be discussed in the next weeks thread after it's actually, you know, aired in it's full context.

Because previews can be intentionally misleading (the good ones are), so they're just as worthy of discussion.

Well, it usually is. If anyone said "don't discuss One Piece openings cause they're always full of spoilers" then I wouldn't.

And the requester would be immediately ridiculed for it, because we use common sense here. There was a "spoiler" in the Log Horizon OP, but most of us active posters didn't notice because none of us watched the OP. After someone pointed it out, none of us complained. It was our fault for not watching the OP.

[darkshadow]

I also don't understand this notion of "not letting people talk about the preview kills discussion" when it's pretty much the exact opposite of that.

Case in point, the situation that started this discussion went something like:

User1: Oh man, I wonder how he's gonna deal with this situation?
User2: Maybe he's gonna do this thing?
User1: Yeah, that could work.
User3: It's also possible that he'd have to do this.
User4: The preview shows him doing this.
*discussion assassinated because there's literally nothing left to talk about at that point*

Or you could just be a normal person and discuss the preview+, it's literally impossible the preview details every upcoming event in a show.

Sorry, but some people give a shit.

I literally know, like, zero people in real life that wouldn't punch a person in the throat if they tried to talk about a Breaking Bad episode preview before they'd seen the next episode.

Stop hanging out with violently insane people.

Well, that's a terrible policy too.

Maybe I haven't decided whether I want to even see a movie yet, and I want to get opinions on people who've seen it as to whether it's good or not. Of course, if there's no spoilers, I can't go to the movie's thread for that, because if it was good, I also know everything that happens in it already, so why bother going?

Why bother going? How about going for the reason threads exist?




-DISCUSSION-.

It's insanely irrational and egotistical to expect people in a discussion thread to fucking dance around spoilers just because you might get your feelings hurt.

[Edort4]

-DISCUSSION-.

It's insanely irrational and egotistical to expect people in a discussion thread to fucking dance around spoilers just because you might get your feelings hurt.

This. I dont care if people ask politely for the favor of not discussing the previews for next episode. The question is that it was stated as their fucking constitutional right that you cant discuss previews or even mention them at all because their habit of not watching them is sacred.

I cant believe that they dont actually see the fundamental difference between those two. I guess that socialdemocracy neo-language and brainwashing made it that far.

[MFauli]

Bad comparison. Manga spoilers, and even some comparisons are explicitly banned by the rules.

If Gotwoot-rules said "jump out of any open window you come by" would you do it, too?

That´s what DarthEnder mentioned: Pointing at arbitrary rules does not make for a good argument. "Why is talking about manga spoilers bad? - Because rules". Okay. A proper argument would go as follows: "Why is talking about manga spoilers bad? - Because manga and anime are two inherently different media, with many, if not most people only following one of the two, therefore splitting anime-discussion from manga-discussion makes sense". That´s better than pointing at some rules, isn´t it.

[DarthEnderX]

We have some guys here that think that is cool to force other people to not discuss (or avoid it) about something from an actual episode (I dont give a fuck if its minute 1 or 24) because they dont like it, a selfish infatuation, and if you tell them that they are forcing that on you they even get mad an start relating you to some kind of aggression paralelisms.

I don't understand why you think people who don't want to know about episode events before they happen are being selfish but people who do want that are somehow being altruistic or something?

Both sides are being equally selfish in that instance. Both sides are trying to force the other side to abide be their beliefs. Trying to paint one side as heroes there and the other as villains when they're both doing EXACTLY the same thing is just dumb.

Because previews can be intentionally misleading (the good ones are), so they're just as worthy of discussion.

Ah, so it's okay to be spoiled then as long as the studio is shitty at making previews. Good to know. Very quantifiable that.

Stop hanging out with violently insane people.

It's hyperbole. Nobody watches(watched) Breaking Bad previews, and nobody tolerated anyone around them discussing them in earshot either.

It's insanely irrational and egotistical to expect people in a discussion thread to fucking dance around spoilers just because you might get your feelings hurt.

And I'm sorry if you care so little about the people you are so desperate to discuss a thing you both enjoy with that you don't care if you're making the experience less enjoyable for them in the process, because the 15 second clip at the end that has no relation to the actual episode you just watched simply cannon pass without comment.

It's insanely irrational and egotistical to insist that, in an discussion about things that happened in the current episode, that the preview(which is a collection of things that happen in the NEXT episode) has to be discussed as well.

This. I dont care if people ask politely for the favor of not discussing the previews for next episode. The question is that it was stated as their fucking constitutional right that you cant discuss previews or even mention them at all because their habit of not watching them is sacred.

I cant believe that they dont actually see the fundamental difference between those two. I guess that socialdemocracy neo-language and brainwashing made it that far.

Episode previews in the constitution? What the fuck are you babbling about?

[Kraco]

If a thread has 6 regular posters and 5 of them never discussed anything in the previews (because they skipped them) and only one watched the whole episode, I reckon the thread wouldn't have much in the way of a preview discussion. But if half of the 6 watch the whole ep and mention the preview occasionally the same as they might mention any interesting detail in the ep, then they do it because it's fun and they enjoy watching the previews. This forum is all about entertainment and the anime (and manga, books, movies, games) threads are meant to grant additional entertainment after watching the episode (except the SAO thread, which was meant to relieve some stress accumulated during the ep). It would be kind of a pity to remove that extra entertainment.

Rules, traditions, and conventions are always compromises to a degree. Sometimes you are lucky and they suit you, sometimes you aren't.

[Edort4]

I don't understand why you think people who don't want to know about episode events before they happen are being selfish but people who do want that are somehow being altruistic or something?

Both sides are being equally selfish in that instance. Both sides are trying to force the other side to abide be their beliefs. Trying to paint one side as heroes there and the other as villains when they're both doing EXACTLY the same thing is just dumb.

I dont have enough mastery of the language to get into deeper explanation about this. I will just say that you are saying that the right to not know of some subjetive part is above the right of speech of something that its inside the episode that is being discussed. I cant explain how absurd the "right to not know of something inside the episode" sounds in my mind.