Increase fast food wages?

[Animeniax]

Do you support a raise in fast food worker pay, or are you against it?

I'm against it. I hear the sob stories about people not being able to make a living off their current wages, and it's some utter nonsense. Who's choice was it for you to have a family, live in an expensive city, get your hair done, get your nails done, and have cheese and bacon on your sammiches? If you can't afford that shit on the wages you make, that's your poor planning. Higher wages for the most menial of work will cause prices to rise for the rest of the working classes. Fast food companies won't eat the costs of higher wages, they will pass them on to their customers. I don't typically eat fast food so I'm neutral and therefore objective in that regard.

[UChessmaster]

I`m not familiar with the wages in USA, how many people can you sustain realistically with fast food wage?

[Ryllharu]

I`m not familiar with the wages in USA, how many people can you sustain realistically with fast food wage?

Less than one if solo. I suppose it is doable, though not fun, if there are two minimum wage earners per household.

$7.25/hr. A fast food worker will be lucky to get 40 hours, most won't. So that's at most $1160 a month, before taxes. Assume the worker has to pay for food and rent (utilities probably not included). Average 2012 rent in the US was around $850 a month.
If they're part-timers, they won't get benefits.

I'm not going to get into the economics of raising the wage or not, because I argued that position once on IRC and got my ass handed to me. Economics is not my forte.

[UChessmaster]

Seems like they should increase if you ask me then.

[Carnage]

Their wages are that low because their job doesn't require skills worth paying more for.

http://singularityhub.com/2013/01/22...gers-per-hour/

America should be worried about educating its work force so that it doesn't need to fast food jobs, not complaining about how little they're paid. If they were worth more than the wage they are getting then they could strike or walk out, but the problem is that the job is so unskilled there's probably a vast number of people ready to take their jobs. Walmart has an acceptance rate of ~3% for its jobs.

[Ryllharu]

I don't disagree that there should be a stronger emphasis on trades for high school students, as well as reducing the stigma against Tech Schools being branded as "not good enough for real high school" by public opinion, but...someone has to do the jobs in the service and restaurant sectors.

Countries that can't staff those businesses end up hiring foreign workers. That sends money out of the country. Look at the UAE or Qatar. Something like 90% of the country aren't citizens. Kuwait isn't so bad, they're at 60%. Good article in National Geographic about that disparity.

[Animeniax]

Their wages are that low because their job doesn't require skills worth paying more for.

http://singularityhub.com/2013/01/22...gers-per-hour/

America should be worried about educating its work force so that it doesn't need to fast food jobs, not complaining about how little they're paid. If they were worth more than the wage they are getting then they could strike or walk out, but the problem is that the job is so unskilled there's probably a vast number of people ready to take their jobs. Walmart has an acceptance rate of ~3% for its jobs.

Exactly. I learned the problem is especially bad in the inner cities, where fast food jobs (the only jobs really available to the unskilled) are high demand and high stress because there are so many applicants who want the job. With that kind of demand, the economics of paying them more doesn't add up for the companies. Only public opinion will sway them, and public opinion is often flawed and uneducated.

Countries that can't staff those businesses end up hiring foreign workers. That sends money out of the country. Look at the UAE or Qatar. Something like 90% of the country aren't citizens. Kuwait isn't so bad, they're at 60%. Good article in National Geographic about that disparity.

With our laws as they are I don't see that being a major problem here in the US, though there are plenty of non-citizens being paid off the books. UAE is ridiculous. I don't think it's quite 90% but maybe 75% are foreign nationals who are there to work. The problem is that the 25% who are citizens are oil rich and it is beneath them (and their sons and daughters) to work the menial jobs that they hire foreigners for.

[Ryllharu]

UAE is ridiculous. I don't think it's quite 90% but maybe 75% are foreign nationals who are there to work. The problem is that the 25% who are citizens are oil rich and it is beneath them (and their sons and daughters) to work the menial jobs that they hire foreigners for.

I said 90% because it is 90%. In 2010 it was 87%. National Geographic's website site is walled off now, though they don't show the infographic online anyway. Don't make me scan it. The article is "Far From Home" in the January 2014 issue.

Please don't make shit up when you don't know. It's a waste of time for the both of us. I wouldn't have said it if I didn't have something to back it up with.

[Animeniax]

I said 90% because it is 90%. In 2010 it was 87%. National Geographic's website site is walled off now, though they don't show the infographic online anyway. Don't make me scan it. The article is "Far From Home" in the January 2014 issue.

Please don't make shit up when you don't know. It's a waste of time for the both of us.

I posted "I don't think it's quite 90%" so that disclaimer indemnifies me from your bitchy angst. Plus it went from 16.5% in 2009 to 13% in 2010, so it was probably closer to 20-25% when I was there in 2007.

[Ryllharu]

You're worse than the scumbag excuses for journalists who like to headline every article with a question mark to avoid charges of libel while writing pure fabrication. FoxNews, CNN, or the worst tabloids, makes no difference.

"I don't think it's [cited fact], but [I'm going to make up an arbitrary anecdotal non-truth instead, and then after I get called out on it, I'll either reverse my position, attack my accuser's character, or extrapolate on my bad anecdote]."

I guess the key point for what or how you post is in bold.

[Xelbair]

Less than one if solo. I suppose it is doable, though not fun, if there are two minimum wage earners per household.

$7.25/hr. A fast food worker will be lucky to get 40 hours, most won't. So that's at most $1160 a month, before taxes. Assume the worker has to pay for food and rent (utilities probably not included). Average 2012 rent in the US was around $850 a month.
If they're part-timers, they won't get benefits.

I'm not going to get into the economics of raising the wage or not, because I argued that position once on IRC and got my ass handed to me. Economics is not my forte.

that's way above average wage in here.

[Sapphire]

Their wages are that low because their job doesn't require skills worth paying more for.

This.

Seems like they should increase if you ask me then.

Or the people complaining could graduate from high school (generalization assuming signif amt of FF workers are in HS) and get a better job, or live in a house with lots of roommates, or move to a new town if need be, right? There are plenty of people willing to work for less than this, and plenty of people totally jobless/homeless/experience-less with $0/hr willing to work for $7.25/hr (like me lol, experienceless-ish), so why?

(to clarify, I agree w Carnage in saying the complete restructuring of various institutions (like education) are better/more useful for the poor than simply increasing wages. give a man a fish...)

I said 90% because it is 90%....

Please don't make shit up when you don't know. It's a waste of time for the both of us. I wouldn't have said it if I didn't have something to back it up with.

roflll!

[Animeniax]

You're worse than the scumbag excuses for journalists who like to headline every article with a question mark to avoid charges of libel while writing pure fabrication. FoxNews, CNN, or the worst tabloids, makes no difference.

"I don't think it's [cited fact], but [I'm going to make up an arbitrary anecdotal non-truth instead, and then after I get called out on it, I'll either reverse my position, attack my accuser's character, or extrapolate on my bad anecdote]."

I guess the key point for what or how you post is in bold.

Yeah posting on a forum with 10 regulars is worse than running national headlines with misleading titles. Hyperbole much?

Plus you forgot about the "maybe 75%" which further nullifies your argument.

This.

Or the people complaining could graduate from high school (generalization) and get a better job, or live in a house with lots of roommates, or move to a new town if need be, right? There are plenty of people willing to work for less than this, and plenty of people totally jobless/homeless/experience-less with $0/hr willing to work for $7.25/hr, so why?

roflll!

I'm actually surprised at your stance on this issue. And please don't laugh at Ryll, he's touchy.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm actually surprised at your stance on this issue. .

Why? She's all about removing useless government intervention.

[Edort4]

More like removing all useless (from her point of view) human beings if you ask me. Even in countries with +40% tertiary education graduates service sector is above 60-70% and 5-10% is agriculture. Its more like a "trend" (dont know what word to use). Usually advanced countries are the ones with more graduates and the more advanced a country is the more dependant is on service sector. So you end up having lots of ppl with phd serving burgers, giving masssages or dog walking.

Its a race of rats if you ask me. Sometimes I think that its better to be ignorant so you cant see how you are being explotied and lied by every wealthy/lucky human being in the planet. 40% of ppl for 25% of "true" jobs (in the best case scenario) and if you dont make it "you should had worked harder or got into another career". If this really was a true Darwinist race we should be allowed to use any means to achieve our goals but most of those that already made it there guard/shield/arm themselves with rules/laws/states/system.

[Animeniax]

Why? She's all about removing useless government intervention.

If that's true it's even weirder. Considering her background, she'd typically be a liberal progressive. They tend to favor government intervention, social welfare programs, and some redistribution of wealth. They also tend to favor this call for increase in the minimum wage for fast food workers.

[Buffalobiian]

More like removing all useless (from her point of view) human beings if you ask me.

I think that our world is overpopulated. We're missing the means to ethically reduce this number. We're also missing a way of doing this without suddenly creating an aging population that can't be supported by fewer taxpayers.

[Edort4]

I think that our world is overpopulated. We're missing the means to ethically reduce this number. We're also missing a way of doing this without suddenly creating an aging population that can't be supported by fewer taxpayers.

Im pretty sure you mean that some parts of the world are overpopulated am I right? I believe that problem will sort itself out by wars, pandemics, over explotation of fertile soil and finally hunger. I dont see the world reaching a consensus over population control.

1º world countries "need" (for devaluation of labor force purposes basically) inmigrants so even if they had achieved some kind of "greedy equilibrium" (ppl doesnt want to be hindered with responsabilities/family etc when they live like kings) theirpopulation will steadly increase. In China fro example they tried with laws/repression and it didnt work very well so imho I think it will end in the hands of entropy. Of course in the process there will be lots of hurt, missery, pain etc. Its the only way we have learned to do anything as a species.

[Buffalobiian]

I mean the world in general since we're all globalized and stuff

[Shadow Skill]

The wage increase is due to higher cost of living. Prices have gone up over the decade(s). Rent, Groceries, Utilities and wages have stayed at the same level. Not just in America, Canada as well, just Canada's wages have kept pace with the cost of living, I think it's by law they have to. Plus taxes will play a huge roll as well. The more a person makes the more taxes they also pay as well. I think Canada is better off with our higher wages per hour than America. Pus we get an annual cost of living increase as well, 2 % in most places, which helps on our wages.

It's a catch 22.

The 7.50 to $15 from what I read is a lot... I could see 10-11 dollars per hour. It's America... so I don't expect much to be done.