Naruto Shippuuden Episode 345

[DarthEnderX]

[HorribleSubs] Naruto Shippuuden - 345 - 1080p | 720p | 480p













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Pretty great episode. Explained a lot of things. And Obito going berserk was an awesome fight scene.

Obito's body. Makes sense why he can lose arms and such and it doesn't matter.

Kakashi's Mangekyo. Apparently, he's always had it. He probably just didn't know what it was until he read the Uchiha tablet.

Interesting that Ubito can apparently "see" through his old eye when he's close enough.

I think it's weird though that Obito apparently has excellent use of Wood Style, but doesn't use it at all in the future.


Wasn't expecting Kakashi to have actually been the one to kill Rin. Obviously there's something going on there since she was apparently super important to the Hidden Mist(some kind of "test subject"). I suspect Kakashi was either killing her to save the Hidden Leaf somehow, or she was making him do it for the same reason.

[deadlydreamx]

I agree if Obito could use wood style jutsu like that he could've definitely beat naruto and anyone who stood in his way really.

[DarthEnderX]

I'm curious what happened to Swirly. Did he get absorbed into Obito's body? Cause his old mask is clearly some kind of homage to him, and he doesn't seem to be around anywhere among the other White Zetsu's.

It also kind of occurred to me that the Senju graft might be the reason why Obito isn't going blind despite the fact that he seems to use his Mangekyo all the time. Back when he was fighting Sasuke, Danzou said something to the effect that his Senju graft was making it so that the Izanagi's he was using lasted longer before the eyes went blind. So it would stand to reason that it's maybe doing the same thing for Obito.


Also, the new ending is pretty awesome.

[Kraco]

No wonder Obito lost interest in everything when he witnessed his friend kill his love interest. He must have realised there would be a good and likely unavoidable reason for the kill, but that doesn't really matter.

Considering there was little but recuperation between the unlucky mission where Obito got injured and this fight, Obito sure fought remarkably well. He wasn't nearly this good back then. I guess this proves Itachi's wisdom once again: Obito didn't have enough hatred in the past and was thus weak.

[DarthEnderX]

No wonder Obito lost interest in everything when he witnessed his friend kill his love interest.

It's still nothing more than a 20 year temper tantrum though.

Like I said in a previous thread. "My 10 year old crush who didn't even love me back got killed. I'm gonna spend the next few decades destroying the world." It's pretty much the poster child for why the Uchiha fucking suck.

Even SASUKE has a more reasonable motivation than that. And you know you have no grasp on what proportionate retribution is when "kill every person in the town of the people who wronged me" is actually the MORE measured response.

Maybe that's Kishi's goal. Make Sasuke seem like less of a monster by making the other villains even worse(but still, ridiculously, trying to make them seem justified).

[Kraco]

Hasn't Obito been working for a single goal quite smoothly: Hunting the bijuu in order to power the super genjutsu? Maybe he's a poster child for not accepting the reality and chasing a dream most would call foolish, but I'd still respect him more than the poster geezer for cold mature thinking: Danzo.

Sasuke is way worse than Obito. Sasuke only dreams of death and destruction for the sake of death and destruction. There's nothing constructive in him at all. Unless there's something now that Itachi affected him in a more positive way. Obito believes, I reckon, that he's doing the right thing, even if it's nothing but a dream concretely. If Sasuke managed to obliterate Konoha, he would probably afterwards sit on some stump in a forest and wither away, having nothing left in his life.

[DarthEnderX]

Bullshit. Sasuke wants destroy a town. That's pretty shitty, sure.

But Obito wants to UNWRITE EXISTENCE and then replace it with his own fucking private fantasy world.

That's way fucking worse.

[Kraco]

Yeah, it is if you don't agree with it. But like I said, I have no doubt Obito believes it's the best course of action for the world full of war, untimely deaths, and suffering. Sasuke must realise himself that he's only a villain working for pure revenge that won't help anybody (not even himself) and will only bring misery to people.

Like the old saying goes: The worst deeds are done with the best of intentions.

[DarthEnderX]

But like I said, I have no doubt Obito believes it's the best course of action for the world full of war, untimely deaths, and suffering.

And I have no doubt that Obito doesn't give a single fuck about anyone else's deaths or suffering. He only cares about getting his childhood crush back. The rest is just an excuse so he can feel justified in doing whatever it takes to get what HE wants.

You know this because up until she died, Obito had NO problems with the the way the world was. He loved being a ninja. Thought it was the coolest fucking thing ever. Even after being crushed by a boulder, he's all "I can't wait to get back to being a child assassin!" Then Rin dies and he's all "THIS WORLD...IS HELL!" He doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself.

After all, is EVERYONE going to get their loved ones back in this world Obito creates? No. Because he's creating the illusion. So he can only fix the shit he personally knows about. He's creating HIS perfect world. It won't be a perfect world to anyone else, but they'll still be forced to live inside it.

He's basically creating The Matrix. Only his reasoning for doing it isn't "to provide the energy needed to power our entire civilization" like it is in The Matrix. It's "to make a fake world where I can pretend the girl I like is still alive".

[Kraco]

If he wants to be reunited with his lost love (and actually have that love to be mutual), I don't think he wants to live with that love being surrounded by demons and ogres trying to hurt them. No, logic dictates he would like to live happily with Rin, surrounded by other happy people. He's not trying to create a hell with himself the only king, he's trying to create heaven. It's a place where everybody's happy. There's no meaning to it otherwise.

So what if he's creating Matrix? Matrix was supposed to be mankind at its best. Even in the Matrix movies there were people who wanted to get back so badly they were ready to betray the resistance.

It'll be still flawed and useless, of course, partially for the reason you mentioned, but his intention is good. That's the only thing I'm saying. Sasuke's only intention is pure villainy, so I don't know why you think he's a better man just because the scale is smaller.

[DarthEnderX]

If he wants to be reunited with his lost love (and actually have that love to be mutual), I don't think he wants to live with that love being surrounded by demons and ogres trying to hurt them. No, logic dictates he would like to live happily with Rin, surrounded by other happy people. He's not trying to create a hell with himself the only king, he's trying to create heaven. It's a place where everybody's happy. There's no meaning to it otherwise.

There IS no meaning though because it's not even real. If he wants to live in a fantasy world where Rin is alive, he could just put HIMSELF in a genjutsu and not enslave the rest of the world in the process.

Matrix was supposed to be mankind at its best.

Technically, it was just mankind at the best it had actually managed to achieve before the machines took over.

Obito is trying to create a world where mankind is actually way better than it actually is, or ever has been. Which the machines also tried, and they said it was a complete disaster.

It'll be still flawed and useless, of course, partially for the reason you mentioned, but his intention is good.

I don't believe that though. If his intentions were actually good, he'd have HAD those intentions before something effected him personally. It wasn't until something bad happened to HIM that he actually wanted to "fix the world" or even thought that the world needed fixing.

Sasuke's only intention is pure villainy, so I don't know why you think he's a better man just because the scale is smaller.

Well, A. I wouldn't even call it pure villainy, because his vengeance is actually somewhat justified. He's just taking it too far, and trying to punish those who weren't really responsible.

While Obito's actions AREN'T really justified, and he's taking it WAY further, effecting a lot MORE people that aren't really responsible.

And B. Sasuke may not be better, but he's at least more honest about it.


It annoys me that I feel like Sasuke warrants defending here because I still totally hate his character.

[Kraco]

I don't believe that though. If his intentions were actually good, he'd have HAD those intentions before something effected him personally. It wasn't until something bad happened to HIM that he actually wanted to "fix the world" or even thought that the world needed fixing.

Uh... Why? Before, he had no such motivation and thought the world was working. Then he saw his friend kill the girl he loved. He realised the world is not working, after all.

Well, A. I wouldn't even call it pure villainy, because his vengeance is actually somewhat justified. He's just taking it too far, and trying to punish those who weren't really responsible.

He's trying to repeat the same injustice he suffered, only taking it even further. That's not fixing anything or solving anything, which justice is all about. He's not even interested in solving anything and knows it full well himself. Yet he's still planning to do it. There's not a trace of justice hidden anyway in there.

While Obito's actions AREN'T really justified, and he's taking it WAY further, effecting a lot MORE people that aren't really responsible.

Obito believes he's doing a service to all the people in the war-torn world. He's not punishing anybody, not seeking revenge, not trying to harm anybody (aside from the jinchuuri and those who're trying to stop him). He thinks he's going to save everybody. It's all a delusion and a very dangerous one at that, but his motivation isn't a fell one.

And B. Sasuke may not be better, but he's at least more honest about it.

Sasuke can be honest about it because he's an emo idiot. Anybody not an idiot wouldn't be able to be so honest about it.

[DarthEnderX]

Obito believes he's doing a service to all the people in the war-torn world.

So you say. Again, I don't BELIEVE that. I think that's just a thing he tells people to try and make them think he's trying to save everyone, when all he cares about is his own private desire.

It's how he gets people like Nagato, who actually DOES want to help the world, to do whatever he wants them to.

[UChessmaster]

So you say. Again, I don't BELIEVE that. I think that's just a thing he tells people to try and make them think he's trying to save everyone, when all he cares about is his own private desire.

Sorry, gonna have to side with kraco here. You claim that what he says is a lie (to himself or the world), but it's as someone pointed out, if he really didn't care he would have just used a genjutsu on himself. What evidence do you have that shows that Obito is lying about what he is saying?

[DarthEnderX]

What evidence do you have that shows that Obito is lying about what he is saying?

Because almost every single thing the character has ever said in the entire course of the series has been a lie. He lies to Akatsuki about who he is. He lies to Nagato about what the tailed beasts are for. He lies to the entire world about being Madara. Hell, he lies about having dust in his eyes. Why should I think that he's telling the truth all of a sudden.

[Buffalobiian]

What did he tell Nagato that the tailed beasts are for again?

[DarthEnderX]

Nukes.

Nagato thought they were going to turn the tailed beasts into giant bombs that would destroy entire countries, and then people would be too afraid to go to war.

[UChessmaster]

Because almost every single thing the character has ever said in the entire course of the series has been a lie. He lies to Akatsuki about who he is. He lies to Nagato about what the tailed beasts are for. He lies to the entire world about being Madara. Hell, he lies about having dust in his eyes. Why should I think that he's telling the truth all of a sudden.

But that was because no one knew his real identity and he needed to manipulate people. If you say he`s lying and assume his real intentions, his real plan could be literally anything, "yeah, turns out I only wanted the tail beasts because i wanted to create the most overpowered baseball team in history, ciao suckers!."

[DarthEnderX]

Well, given that the flashback is what actually happened to him, and not him TELLING someone what happened to him, I'm confident enough to believe that his plan really does involve bringing Rin back(which, I'm not sure why he doesn't just use Edo Tensei or the Rinnegan Rebirth ability, unless he assumes she'll just get killed again if he doesn't create a perfect world first).

Now Madara on the other hand, I've seen very little to suggest that he's anything but a total villain. So this idea that he wants to create a perfect peaceful world just sounds like a way to manipulate Obito.

So either he really does intend to use the Eye of the Moon plan, but he just wants to enslave the world with it, or the Eye of the Moon Plan is, itself, a lie, and he's just trying to collect the tailed beasts so he can become the Ten Tail's Jinchuuriki and become the next Sage of the Six Paths and become a god.

He already has the Rinnegan and the Wood Style, and 4 of the Sage's 5 tools are inside the Gedo Statue. All he needs now is Sage jutsu and the Ten Tails(and whatever the sixth path is).

[Kraco]

He already has the Rinnegan and the Wood Style, and 4 of the Sage's 5 tools are inside the Gedo Statue. All he needs now is Sage jutsu and the Ten Tails(and whatever the sixth path is).

He's dead, though. Who knows if he could do it anymore. It seems like he originally wanted to get properly resurrected with Rinnegan. The story has certainly painted a wonderful picture of zombies with no weaknesses and only extra strength, but who knows. At least Madara didn't want to become one, so perhaps it does indeed have some weakness despite everything, in addition to the nasty feeling of a dagger embedded in the neck.