Log Horizon

[Kraco]

I really don't care about seeing any PCs escaping from the world. Trying to live inside it is so much more entertaining. And if you can give real people a digital life, I'd say you can give digital AIs a real consciousness simply because the creator must be talented.

Like a certain anime? The first episode had Akatsuki readjusting her height. It's also hard for me to comprehend death-revive-teleports as being a physical phenomenon, so I think this is still all virtual.

They might all be NPCs, as a matter of fact, like Ryll said up there. Which wouldn't be so different from what I said, only copying, not moving. That would explain everything perfectly, including the fact we haven't seen anybody disappear, which happened in SAO a lot. In the end if this game had tens of thousands of players all over the world, or is it that much in Japan alone and more abroad, there's no way great many wouldn't be unplugged by force in RL or simply die in RL. But if they are all digital clones of the players' consciousnesses, then it's natural they don't leave the game ever, no matter what happens in the game or outside of the game, provided the servers keep running. There's also no way they could realise that by observation alone. Somebody would need to think about it abstractly and accept it without proof, like a religion. It could be quite a mental shock to great many, though.

[Buffalobiian]

When I said "Like a certain anime", I was meant to provide the following link.

They might all be NPCs, as a matter of fact, like Ryll said up there. Which wouldn't be so different from what I said, only copying, not moving.

When you mean "physically", Kraco.. do you mean physically plugged in, or physically being there? The latter was what I thought you meant, but your latest comment suggests the former.

[Kraco]

When I said "Like a certain anime", I was meant to provide the following link.



When you mean "physically", Kraco.. do you mean physically plugged in, or physically being there? The latter was what I thought you meant, but your latest comment suggests the former.

Nah, at first I was thinking it a possibility they were indeed physically transported into the game world, or rather a world that was like the game world would be in concrete 3D. But after Ryll's post, I reckon it more likely only their minds were copied there. If indeed anything was copied/moved. It would be more plausible than SAO's setting, especially when this game has many times more players from all over the world. There's simply no way they could be kept alive as coma patient equivalents in such numbers.

[Kraco]

Episode 12 - HS






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The NPCs are certainly like regular people already. I wonder how long it'll take before some player starts to date an NPC girl/guy. Who knows what Krusty might have in mind, as well, by approaching the princess. While Shiroe managed to bring some order to the town, I still find it really nice in the end all the players are individuals and especially the more powerful and ambitious ones might be far more interested in playing their own little games than play their role in Shiroe scheme. Being so crafty, I'm sure Shiroe realises that as well and never thought it would be smooth sailing. I hope he's satisfied with his own role and situation, though, since the round table folks would naturally judge him more severely than anybody else, should he do something brash. Akatsuki finally getting a job worth her skills was long overdue and very welcome.

Other than that, it seems regular skeletons aren't any pushovers in this game. Some many players above level 20 and a bunch of bonemen pushed them back. Not that the group composition would have been too good with only one forward and a whole bunch of support, but still.

I hope the game allowed players to play villanous roles and we will get such a character to make an appearance. I'm not bored with the politics and other such world building and sheer exposition, but a competent villain does always good for a fantasy story.

[MFauli]

npcs die for good when theyre killed, right? that has to play some major role in the near future, since it gives even more of an unfair power advantage in favor of the adventurerers. theyre practically gods.

[Ryllharu]

npcs die for good when theyre killed, right? that has to play some major role in the near future, since it gives even more of an unfair power advantage in favor of the adventurerers. theyre practically gods.

My guess based on the conversation between the two NPCs this episode is that if NPCs are treated like trash by the adventurers, they will simply stop giving quests entirely to a region. Mostly because they'll simply flee. If they aren't there to run the stores, city bank, and other function, the player city will become a dead zone where players can't accomplish much of anything. I expect this has already happened to the northern city, where they willingly killed off many of the NPCs and drove away the rest.

Shiroe's narration and the conversations between Henrietta and Maryell about the magic bag was quite telling as well. Newer players can't get any of the items that the high level players earned from the story mode of the original game. With the expansion, there are likely even better quest rewards now. Experience is probably also increased greatly from quests, like in any MMO.

It is in their best interest to continue to gain the favor of The People of the Land. You can't simply talk to them anymore and just instantly get the quest, you have to convince them now.

[shinta|hikari]

Finally some romantic development. Akatsuki's jealousy was so cute to watch. Shiroe's tantrum not so much, but better than being an android.

Watching the "newbies" pissed me off. They are at level 20+, surely those stupid ass mistakes and pig headedness should already be over with. They are missing the basics of the basics in group battle, which is simply stupid and unrealistic. Ignoring the miko is irritating, but the miko not asserting herself even more so. If she just said that she inherited Shiroe's knowledge, everything would have gone much better.

[KrayZ33]

the newbs are kids and lvl 20 while the highest level is 90 (or now 95)

in most mmo's thats the first time people visit a dungeon
and dungeon groups on that level are most of the time nothing more than 4dps+1 healer setups, because tanks don't make much of a difference in lower levels

so not really unrealistic in my book

[MFauli]

man, imagine if this anime was more like those real mmorpgs. there´s a tv-spot running on german tv for ... everquest 2, I think, which promotes "start the game with a level 85 character!" Yeah, great, like it doesn´t defeat the whole purpose of the game :|

[Xelbair]

4dps+heal and no tank... i dunno what kind of mmos were you playing sir.

[Ryllharu]

Better than one front row attacker (also a tank), a glass cannon, and three support characters.

You don't need a restorative healer in a well-balanced, class-based MMO. If people are saying they won't do missions/quests without a pure healer, they're a bad player. The Miko would be more than enough if everyone plays smart. Serara should be using her attacks too, since her class is supposedly the most versatile healer/attacker. If she's focusing on healing, someone in the attacker group are being idiots. Which is exactly what we saw.

They have a seriously bad team considering they're not using strategy and currently have no leader. I'd wager Shiroe's advice for each class would make them a good team, but whatsherface is just too timid to take the leadership role. She should be, since she can stand back and assess the situation much better than anyone on the team except for the bard.

[Archangel]

4dps+heal and no tank... i dunno what kind of mmos were you playing sir.

Samurais can probably spec into offtank, they just have a lot more trouble holding onto aggro

[KrayZ33]

4dps+heal and no tank... i dunno what kind of mmos were you playing sir.

either read the whole sentence or don't read at all
did you try out swtor? did you try out tera? did you try out WoW? did you try out ff14?

yes? no?
no need for tanks early on - you can't even consider them "tanks" during that phase of the game, they lack skills and defence stats and enemies + bosses lack the punch to kill you in 1-2 blows.

[shinta|hikari]

I played Tera and Bastion of Lok is a level 20-24 dungeon, and if everyone is on the lower end of this level range with undeveloped playing skills, a tank is necessary.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 13


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Crusty's "evilness" is way more fun to watch than Shiroe's, mainly because they are mostly interaction-based and we can see him blatantly lying. I do remember seeing the princess in the OP now, highly suggesting that she'll join the adventurers. Crusty can also make it appear as if she's his diplomatic hostage!

[Ryllharu]

I do remember seeing the princess in the OP now, highly suggesting that she'll join the adventurers. Crusty can also make it appear as if she's his diplomatic hostage!

This episode did raise the idea that People of the Land can become adventurers, though that does remain to be seen. Crusty is implying that she can end her boredom by joining them (and indeed become a hostage), though it isn't clear if she will be raised to immortal status like the players are, or if People of the Land become "Hardcore Mode" Adventurers, without the chance to resurrect.

Perhaps the next episode will shed light on this concept.

If true, I think it increases the chances that the players aren't trapped in this world, but are copies of the player personas and live here permanently. If People of the Land can't convert to Level 1 adventurers (hardcore or not), then...I guess that doesn't mean anything either way.

[Kraco]

Was the mage who appeared an NPC or a PC? His demeanor kind of reminded me of PCs, not to mention the fact he just suddenly appeared out of nowhere to confront players (perhaps Shiroe specifically) at a place where they don't normally hang around and thus wouldn't necessarily be the most prominent place for random quests, even if the nobles might have some of their own to give. Though I suppose with the recent changes in the people of the land, he might be an NPC as well, seeking help from adventurers. I'd prefer a PC, however, one who has studied the world more than our regular main cast.

Interesting development in any case. I really enjoyed every moment of Crusty's interaction with the princess. I thought Crusty isn't such an interesting character, being one of the 90+ level chasers, but he's pretty funny in his own way and handles the princess exactly like a player in an excessively developed game world might. Being so passive, the princess is also remarkably entertaining in Crusty's company.

[David75]

I do not think she can become an adventurer and risk her life. Even for a NPC, her stats are those of a useless princess combat wise.
BUT
She's an incredible asset.
She would be extremely useful for the round table, as an ambassador. And living in Akiba, she clearly would change her lifestyle and have her own adventures.
It's medieval international relations 101, share princesses beetween countries/factions as show of goodwill and to try and prevent any future wars. Not that it worked that much in history, but at least they tried

Other than that, I admitt I had nice grins and laughs in the Crusty vs Princess dialogues.

[MFauli]

If npcs could turn into adventurers, it leaves the question if pcs can turn into "npcs". Either way, mixing up with people of the land, like hypothetically princess lenessia joining the adventurers, creates a whole new dynamic. Suddenly you have to be super careful since some of your party members are not immortal anymore.

Regarding our overarching topic about the status of the adventurers´ real bodies, I hope we get an insightful episode specifically dedicated to that soon. I don´t really care what the revelation from that might be, I just want to know what´s up, especially if we´re in for a scenario where the story is not about escaping the virtual world, but about making a life within it.

[NeoCybercoin]

Maybe the only way for a NPC to become a Adventurer is by passing over those privileges that adventurers have. But then again it would mean for a adventurer that he'd have to give up his status as an adventurer and become an NPC?