If we're still following game rules, I don't think Yamato people can level up. NPCs don't level up when they kill Adventurers normally, so I don't see why they'd do so now, just like how they don't respawn.
If we're still following game rules, I don't think Yamato people can level up. NPCs don't level up when they kill Adventurers normally, so I don't see why they'd do so now, just like how they don't respawn.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
That's fairly typical in games, though: Players have a limited selection of spells, oft level dependent (and naturally class dependent), but NPCs can perform weirder things in a preprogrammed manner to serve the story. Now that it's not just a game anymore, I imagine Shiroe, and others with similar wits, should now be able to create new spells. The world is otherwise so perfectly complete that it would be strange if they couldn't. They could build a fricking ironclad, after all. Maybe they were foreshadowing that during the couple of scenes where Shiroe was wondering what he could do with his chosen skills.Originally Posted by Ryllharu
That would be quite silly under the current circumstances, after the game became reality. There are/have been powerful NPCs. Would they be born that powerful, then? Little babies hurling fireballs and splitting rocks with their tiny fists?
Hmm. What I mean is that they don't level up via killing or gaining xp points. A foot soldier for example should not level up by killing more goblins. However, if he kills goblins and earns himself a promotion to captain-rank, then he may have a new level with access to more skills, higher HP/armour etc.
For sure, NPCs have become more human but levelling up isn't a human characteristic. Rather, it's a game-construct, just like respawning.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
You are talking about technicalities. Levelling up is nothing but a simplification for game mechanics. The real deal obviously is gaining experience one way or another. Some better games (though I don't know about MMO ones) have partially shifted from the "kill x amount of goblins to level up" to more sensible ways of measuring experience. But in either case it's about putting what you know to use and developing those skills. Levels are just an easy way to measure and control it in games.
I wouldn't even be sure the world of this game follows the rather stupid old way (D&D way). I have a feeling it's more like the Elder Scrolls of using skills enough levels you up, possibly quests helping as well. We have seen some of the kids use non-combat skills extensively and talking about how those skills got up, just like they would in Elder Scrolls. Although we don't know if that levelled the character levels up as well, but it would be strange to have skills and levels totally unrelated to each other. The fact some level 90 people like Marie are utterly useless in combat suggests you could level up without slaying anything, just by repeatedly using whatever random skills you chose.
Fighting type players (and why not NPCs) would still seek out monsters because that's the best way to raise all combat, attack magic, and other such skills, regardless of any exp gained from kills. Saying that when a soldier gets a promotion, it suddenly grants him an array of new skills, health, and whatnot sounds so uber unrealistic that I can't see how it would suit this world. That would also mean the duke would be a huge fighting machine since he's near the top of scale. But obviously he's not. Why, even the princess should be like a real valkyrie, not only a newbie wearing the armor of one.
That's because the Duke is a non-combat role just like the princess. If we say that levels are only a simplification of showing how 'good' someone is (while what actually matters is experience), then what would happen if you gave a lvl4 person a lvl50-and-above weapon? Would they simply be bad at wielding it because of their lack of experience, or would they simply be unable to lift/equip/swing the weapon at all due to game/mechanics-lock?
Remember the whole cooking thing? If you weren't at a certain level of cooking, you just burn the food to a crisp. You don't produce bad tasting food.
The princess and other soldiers may well be able to learn and get better at weapons and skills, but I don't believe they'll be able to level up to access further skills that were previously locked as such.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
Ah, but that's where you're missing the implications of world-class magic, the MMO system, and the one that they have now. The adventurers would produce that disgusting purple blob if they used the menu to make food, the same way Sword Art Online did. It's true that is does turn purple if their cooking level was too low, but the real world equivalent happens all the same, it's just not as immediately obvious.
That said, boars don't automatically turn into a large bone with meat on it, and goblins when killed don't turn into bubbles and coins. Think of the MMO-aspects and menus as a world-class spell continually running. As far as we know, People of the Land have no access to that kind of information. They can't talk telepathically (chat/whispering), and they definitely can't "click" on someone and figure out their name, rank, level, and class. When adventurers aren't cooking or crafting properly, and try to use the menus to do it, they're using the world-class magic as a shortcut, and of course it doesn't execute properly.
Similarly, I wouldn't expect People of the Land to kill a few monsters, and automatically have access to a new skill. They would have to learn and study magic the hard way, or practice with a sword.
However, I think adventurers are in the same boat. They can't learn any new skills outside the shortcut system and it's UI without doing things the hard way, or worse, that the system will actually hinder them if they're not the correct class/subclass. The same isn't true of People of the Land. Lenessia could become a spellsword with little difficulty if she practiced both, with her subclass as Princess.
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If Shiroe wonders if he can create very powerful documents, I seriously want to know what things Serara can do once she maxes out housekeeper. It has to be secretly better than it seems.
edit: Perhaps you literally cannot clean up a guild hall, hindered by the system itself. Maybe Serara will become quite valuable over the months, and charge exorbitant fees! Not that money matters to adventurers...
Last edited by Ryllharu; Sun, 02-02-2014 at 06:29 AM.
But they do, if you kill it. I'm not sure what Nyanta did to the boar when he brought it live back to the kitchen though. It's got to be killed somehow, and I doubt skinning it live was the way to do it.
Maybe killing it in the kitchen gets you different results, while killing it in a forest means the system defaults to a 'meat on bone' so you can carry it in your inventory.
I do think that People of the Land are able to improve their skills with use, but I don't think they can use the levelling system, which besides being a show of strength is also a tool to restrict access to spells/weapons/armour.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
Adventurers are restricted by the system to certain levels for given skills or equipment. We can't say the same for People of the Land at this point. Shiroe and the trade guild master were going by what they know. I imagine that any player-crafted items and armors are similarly restricted, but loot might be different.
Regan certainly knows spells that are far beyond anything Shiroe or the other casters could produce.
So far we don't really know anything about how the NPC's levels or skills (assuming they exist or not) are handled. The only thing we do know is that some of them can fight, even Shiroe said they could beat the goblins, even if with catastrophic casualties. We do know they have a health bar similar to adventurers and monsters. Some of them can become really powerful, though we don't know how. That's all. I based my theories on the assumption the world wouldn't have redundantly multiple systems. But who knows. I took the disappearance of the named knights to mean the adventurers are meant to replace their function. That, and other things, would mean the adventurers are meant to integrate into this world, so they couldn't be so different.
Not necessarily. When this was just a game, certain skills might have existed just for fun (for people who find them fun). Looking at the huge number of female players, the game must have been as much a social network as it was a bloodbath for typical male players seeking single-minded monster fights and loot. However, if the players are now stuck for life in the this world, then housekeeping skills could be handy, especially if they are truly alive and can, for example, reproduce. She would make an excellent wife! Or, like you said, she could become the Martha Steward of Akiba and make some money with the skills...
NPC probably could better their skills after the Apocalypse. Maybe they just don't know they can, because it usually means exposing their lives in dangerous quests. If that detail changed, nobody even thought about it yet.
Regarding Lenessia, her combat level is extremely low, because she was nothing but a doll to be married someday, with no power whatsoever.
What has changed though, is that it seems she's got some persuasion/charisma power. Hard to tell if there's a status bar for that. But being able to convince that bunch of free adventurers probably isn't that easy, even if they craved for some fighting, since there's no other reward than doing it.
But since it's only one achievement, and only in a specific context, maybe that Leadership/charisma power is just some silly idea I got
All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.
No, I think it was bloody easy. They were bored out of their mind with no quests being offered (since they were just hanging around Akiba, not seeking them elsewhere), and generally speaking with nothing to do at all but some occasional grinding of respawning stock monsters for exp and ingredients. Then a beautiful and honest princess appears out of nowhere to ask for help (and thus offer a quest) backed by two prominent members of the round table. The princess could have easily gathered an even larger army, had they advertised the speech better. But then again, this is probably more than sufficient already, considering the 40+ level limit.But being able to convince that bunch of free adventurers probably isn't that easy, even if they craved for some fighting, since there's no other reward than doing it.
But since it's only one achievement, and only in a specific context, maybe that Leadership/charisma power is just some silly idea I got
Still, I'm not saying she wouldn't have some charm skill. It would be a natural result of her station, upbringing, beauty, and honesty.
Episode 19 -HS
-- - - - -- - - --
Even I have to confess I'm getting fed up by the kids claiming the bulk of the episodes lately, and especially the combat. The fact we have a splendid beginning with Crusty's crack forces fighting against a huge number of enemies reinforced by high level monsters only made the worse when the rest of the episode suddenly jumped back to the kids and their struggle against the kinds of basic grunts we have seen them fight multiple times before, or something only remotely better. Even Akatsuki is getting sick of waiting, and she's normally happy just being being allowed to stay near Shiroe.
I feel like the series director also made a mistake with Rudy. I recently rewatched the show from the beginning and near the end of the first episode Shiroe is talking about how 20M players worldwide are trapped in the game. The video is showing different characters during that narration, and Rudy is prominently among those shown (21:42). Quite misleading, I'd say! Cheaply misleading, to boot. But I guess if he's turned into a guinea pig for Shiroe, he'll serve some role...
I hope the next episode will finally forget the kids and show us stuff that really matters in the big picture, including the core team fighting after such a long time. Not to forget Crusty, of course. I was very happy he looked so gleeful fighting. That's how a player should be in an action game, not like the kids who have wrinkles deeper than a 60 years old career politician, due to taking shit so overly seriously. I hope will see a lot more of Crusty and the princess before the show is over.
The kids have every reason to take this seriously though, because they're shit and lack experience. They haven't exactly got the experience to make ends meet and also lack the confidence of having multiple battles under their belt. In short, it's their first big battle and they're afraid of losing.
With the next episode titled "Contract" and Shiroe supposedly making a difference to Roundel Haus' outcome (I actually wish he'd stay dead to make this count), I suspect it'll have something to do with super-powerful text documents that have been alluded to previously.
And for a Guardian class, Crusty sure isn't taking a lot of hits.
Marie actually annoys me more than the kids. Her accent and uselessness... urgh..
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
They're just not showing her fight, which is pissing me off. She was quite scuffed up in the last scene, so she's taking part and kicking ass...they just don't show it. They show her healing only (which she does need to do a lot because the other kids are weak too).
It's fine if she's good at healing. Obviously she's useless at fighting, but we have hundreds of sea goblins (or whatever they are) against only a handful of adventurers. They are going to need all the healing they can get, no matter if they are level 90.
How bizarre, I actually enjoy the kids´ battles more than those of Crusty and co., because they´re not uber-strong. They have to be scared to lose, so their fights bear a heavier burden. With Crusty, it´s just eye-candy, like "oh, how will he strike down the next foe?", wheras with Minorin and her group it´s "WILL the make it through the next battle?". I prefer that.
Now, what´s fuck-stupid is that Rundel sacrificed himself to save Touya. Some silly pride here, since he should know that real adventurers revive after being killed (and he doesn´t know of the memory loss thing). Touya dying here would have been an inconvience, nothing more.
Also, Minorin is a bitch. When she states towards the end "there´s still hope", I thought that she´d have a real plan. No, she doesn´t. She just gets in contact with Shiroe and begs for some miracle, lol. Of course, as the preview shows, that miracle comes true, but for Minorin to get Izusu´s hopes up with just that, it´s bitchy and mean.
Still, I would have thought that there´d be another solution to saving Rundel: How about some good old-fashioned CPR? Since the people of the land are "real" within their world, if magic fails, why not use realistic reanimation methods? Rundel´s body wasn´t destroyed or anything, so it could have worked.
Anyway, I´m glad Rundel won´t die, he´s one of my favorite characters. Guess I like characters that go against the odds, and what´s a greater odd than to try compete with the adventurers when you´re just one of those weakly people of the land. major respect!
Oh, and we saw Shiroe in the real world. That rules out any "the real world never existed, this game actually is real"-theories.
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
Blatantly a flashback. That was Naotsugu's memory.
Yes, I know that it was a flashback. But some of you in this thread had been discussing how maybe this never was a game, but an alternate dimension or some crap. This flashback shows that it is indeed a game and the adventurers are indeed trapped inside. How the game acquired that level of AI, though, remains a mistery. Just because you´re trapped inside some videogame doesnt make its NPCs sentient.
"She's the only non-loli girl in the show, your honor!" will be my defense in court
I thought the theories were:
1) This is a cyber world and the players are stuck somehow
2) This is a cyber world and the players are NPCs who have had their human minds cloned somehow
3) This is a real physical world and the players are transported here somehow (don't actually remember this one being mentioned but if MFauli is so sure..)
In any case, I don't remember anyone saying that the real world never existed at all.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
You misunderstood what the possibility was. Of course it was a game to players in our world. But the argument was that it was never really a game to begin with. As in not the sole creation of a game developer. The players were accessing the world of Elder Tale (another dimension) through the game interface. The game interface was actually part of a World Class spell, creating a bridge between the two worlds.
There were three uses of World Class magic.
- One cursed the land and created ever-respawning monsters.
- Two created a means to stop that, which was the Elder Tale Game-Bridge, linking their world to our own, appearing as an MMO in our world.
- Three is what the players call the Apocalypse.
Last edited by Ryllharu; Sun, 02-09-2014 at 11:15 AM. Reason: clarity
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