Gin no Saji

[Ryllharu]

It was the slight smile as she was feeding it that convinced Hachiken that Tamako loves her animals too, just in a different way. Sure, it's a ruthless kind of love, because Tamako is a ruthless person.

The other way you could view it is that both Mikage and Komaba are almost on the verge of losing their farms, particularly the latter. Mikage doesn't have the heart to carry on the dairy side of their farm, so if she does follow her dream, the family farm will get sold to someone else (unless she marries Hachiken, like you said). Komaba knows that the only way to save his farm is to follow his dream for the cash infusions it will bring.

So, you could say that Tamako is ruthless because she loves her farm. The business isn't an easy one, she calls it the Warring States Era of Agriculture, and she thinks her parents can't keep it running at peak efficiency with a good profit margin. That size allows them to rotate the workers and even give them breaks (leaving them with excellent quality of life) and have a stable revenue stream. She also mentioned that if the cows get diseased, Hachiken would be responsible for making all of the workers lose their jobs. Tamako is actually a very caring person, she's just incredibly ruthless about it.

[MFauli]

tamako clearly stated that money is what she´s doing it all for. guess it´s open to interpretation if that´s only an outter facade or her real stance.

what i was surprised about is how calm, even curious and cheery mikage and her mom were. in reality, tamako´s farm would be THE arch enemy of a small farmer like mikage. i know that myself from other industry (see traditional, small bakeries versus gigantic bread-factories, or small family opticians versus nationa-wide spectacle-maker). it´s not really normal to be that friendly with each other, haha. well, it´s a "feel good"-anime, so no complains here.

[Ryllharu]

That's kinda the thing about dairy farms in America, particularly milk. It spoils. Americans don't drink UHT milk. The relative newness of the "Eat Locally Grown" movement is interesting when it comes to fresh dairy products. All the dairy farms are local, always have been. They might all be labeled under a particular brand group, but each of the packages has a code that identifies the individual dairy farm where it came from. I used to live close to one that couldn't have had more than 50 cows, probably less than that.

They don't really compete with each other directly, at least east of the Mississippi River. The demand is there, the only thing that brings down farms is when the market price is too low.

So to me, it wasn't weird at all that they were friendly with each other.

[David75]

I was just wondering if somehow a merger would be possible beetween Komaba and Mikage Farms. Mikage getting some income from Komaba in the deal and starting horse activities.

[Buffalobiian]

i just think it´s too shallow, answering this moral dilemma with "because it tastes so good".

I completely agree with this.

The problem is that his conflicted thoughts seemed so much deeper - do you kill something that you've come to love, or don't you?
The answer is a simple "oh, it tastes so good. Why was it even a dilemma before?"

Tastes good > moral standing.

The fact that it repeats itself doesn't help.

Dirty chicken egg...
>> but it tastes good

Cute little piggy
>> damn bacon's nice

I have to cut this deer??
>> This melts in your mouth!!


I get these conflicted feelings too (and these episodes bring it out). I also continue to eat meat, and it tastes good. The reason I continue though, isn't because tastes good > all, but because I sweep the issue under the carpet since I can't decide. Ignoring and forgetting works for me because I don't really own any animals.

Hachiken makes it sound like he's accepting "It tastes good" as his justification for the killing, which is the cheapening bit.

Overall these episodes keep putting a stupid smile on my face when I watch them.

As for the argument about a drop in demand leading to a decline in livestock population, it's implied that a drop in population isn't any better than the current output. It's automatically justifying that if you allow a life to be born you can kill it since it otherwise wouldn't have lived anyway.

[Dark Dragon]

I don't think that argument is trying to justify anything, that is simply the way it works. You can argue the act of eating/killing livestock is morally wrong or right, but either way the end result does not differ very much.

The argument can be made that the act of killing an animal is wrong, but by not having them exist in the first place the only difference between the 2 scenario is that we made ourselves feel better by not having to kill animals. The argument then becomes is it better for them to live a rather short/crappy life before being made into food or is it better to not have ever existed and feels the pain of living. The answer for this would varies from person to person

If the entire world's population becomes vegetarian, we would still need to kill animal for drug testing, creating medical supplies to save people. It comes down to how much you would value the life of a person over the life of an animal and the answer would also varies from person to person. You could bring the argument a bit further and step into the territory of Buddhism where all life are considered sacred. At this point, the act killing any insect could be seen as terrible as killing another human being.

The whole point i'm trying to make is that there isn't one simple answer to this issue and there will never be. Hachiken is clearly conflicted of what he needs to do since he's stuck between his sensibility of not wanting to kill an animal versus his innate desires which enjoy the act of eating meat. The people around him mostly thinks it's the natural thing to do since it's the environment that they grew up in. I don't see what you guys are saying about the show simplifying the dilemma, because at no point does any character imply that either views are superior. This show is not trying to push any agenda or press any buttons, it's simply providing a few different view point toward the issues and the way a person would react when presented with these issues. Hachiken has not made a final decision on what to do with Pork Bowl when the times comes, that would be after summer when they gets back to the school. I would wait to see his decision before making a judgment of the character.

[Buffalobiian]

I don't see what you guys are saying about the show simplifying the dilemma, because at no point does any character imply that either views are superior.

No side has clearly said that one side was superior. I suppose Hachiken's unresolved conflict shows that.

What ticks me off though, is that the argument that balances the "killing is wrong" thought is simply "it tastes good", as far as Hachiken is concerned. The very fact that it's given equal weighting cheapens the moral consideration in the first place. It's as if saying that self-gratification is enough to at least balance the idea of doing something you think may be morally wrong.

That's the main gripe I have with this presentation. Killing livestock isn't compared to saving world hunger or really about economics or employment, but taste. Economics and livelihood have been covered separately as part of business management, and the deer ep I felt sent a clearer message since they mentioned deer as being important for food up in the mountains. At the same time it was also simplified because the deer already died though.

I do realise Hachiken hasn't made up his decision yet (though really, it's not his decision to make), it's how he's been balancing the issues that's rubbed me the wrong way.

[shinta|hikari]

Did Hachiken ever really feel that killing animals was morally wrong? I felt that he just didn't want to do so himself, or have animals he cared for killed. It is more of disgust or attachment than righteousness.

Even if it is a moral dilemma, I would not belittle taste at all. I love to eat and cook, so I understand just how important taste is, and how much people are willing to do for it.

[Buffalobiian]

Did Hachiken ever really feel that killing animals was morally wrong? I felt that he just didn't want to do so himself, or have animals he cared for killed. It is more of disgust or attachment than righteousness.

Hmm. Perhaps you're right. He didn't have anything against it per se.

HS - Episode 08

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I'm a fool through and through then. I rarely, if ever spend money to better myself. I've very good at not spending money, but when I do it goes towards some form of entertainment or gadget.

[Dark Dragon]

I should've seen that punchline coming.

They were building Hachiken's brother up as this really talented guy so i thought his Ramen would be good. It's pretty hilarious that he's just absolutely horrible at it.

[MFauli]

dunno how i should feel about hachiken´s brother. unless the guy is truly happy with his current way of life, it´s rather sad.

but damn, it´s weird how much i enjoy watching this show. hxh is my favorite of the season, closely followed by shingeki no kyojin. but this anime gives me a completely different kind of satisfaction.

this episode did a fantastic job at building up the HachikenXMikage-couple, though Hope that´s further explored during this anime´s story. it´d be kind of refreshing to see a male lead character work to get a girls heart, instead of her being all over him from the beginning (her and half a dozen others,sigh).

also, hachiken´s general lack of a direction in life makes me sympathize with him a lot. even though im doing something right now, i dont feel like it´s what i want to do for the rest of my life. still searching that "something". hachiken, show me what to do :>

[shinta|hikari]

If you want to see a male character work for a female's affections, watch Servant x Service. Now.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 09

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SEE! Hachiken said it so plainly this episode. "I'll be a vegetarian, then I won't be conflicted... screw that shit, this tastes so good!"

Then again.. am I really taking that route as well? I say I'm ignoring the issue, but is it that I'm feigning ignorance (by ignoring) instead of trying to admit that I myself am a hypocrite/overriding the moral dilemma because meat tastes good? I don't know..

I really thought that he'd buy Pork Bowl with his holiday money since the pig isn't worth as much, but that's no longer the case. You'd also think that liquid feeding would be something that the school would do once a pig falls below a certain grade. If liquid feeding was a trade secret, then the student wouldn't have spilled the beans so readily. On the other hand, if it's standard pig knowledge, you'd wonder why a school of all places wouldn't be putting it into practice. The only reason I can think of is that the cost of labour isn't worth the increased selling price of just one pig.

I was browsing websites for some 2014 calendars, and I was about to pick the Gin no Saji one because I can count on it being uplifting (I skipped the Fate/Zero one from 2013 for that reason). Then I remembered that Tamako could be on there (namely in that "poolside pose"), and now I'm hesitant. This episode gave me a glimmer of hope, but then....

Her slim form isn't all that great either. Her long face only brings out how short she is, and she still talks like an stuck-up madam. I'd much prefer Mikage, who actually lost some points this episode. There was the tiniest feeling that she was being nicer to Hachiken because someone called her out on being a "bad woman". Not that that's wrong, it's just a more self-centered motive than I'd like. And it's only an ever so slight feeling.

[Shin-S] Gin no Saji OP Single - Faraway [miwa].zip
[Shin-S] Gin no Saji OP Single - Faraway (FLAC) [miwa].zip

I should've seen that punchline coming.

We learnt it last week, and I still didn't see it coming the second time round.

[shinta|hikari]

Hachiken also clearly said that the reason he feels conflicted is because he is attached to Butadon. This was never a moral issue for Hachiken, but an affection issue. Even steak lovers don't eat their dogs. The whole reason he even brought up being a vegetarian is just to escape his dilemma, not because of any moral inclination about killing, and that route was clearly easily crushed by an offer of kebabs. If he actually had moral reservations about it, he would not fold so easily. He cares about Butadon, and that spilled over to pigs, but he was, is, and will be happily eating all sorts of carcasses that don't remind him of his pet.

Mikage is pretty much a dense jerk. She just seems too cold towards Hachiken, even as a normal friend. I tend to agree with your assessment that her motivation for cheering Hachiken up is not friendship but self righteousness.

[MFauli]

starting to dislike hachiken. more of the "it tastes good, so it´s okay to kill". it´d be okay to say that if he just finally made a decision. but all this prolonged "i love you, butadon - but i want to eat you, too *sadface*" needs to stop.

i would be careful about calling mikage dense or cold. imo she´s just too caught up in her own "misery". It´ll depend on Hachiken to break through that shell, be it raising their friendship level or fully getting into a relationship.

btw returning to butadon: wouldn´t it be a-ok if hachiken just bought butadon, made him his pet, and still continued eating pork? afaik that isnt too unusual to have a "favorite".

[Ryllharu]

Buff and MFauli, the both of you are completely missing the point of this series. You're focusing on minutiae that doesn't even matter.

I think it is very interesting, or perhaps telling, that neither of you mentioned the GI Jane teacher talking to the other students about why they don't mind Hachiken being troubled by this scenario. The rest of the student body grew up with the farm environment. Not getting attached to your animals is the status quo for them. Some of them mentioned that they used to name their animals, and they cried and cried when their parents shipped them off. Emulating their parents, they also got into the same level of detachment.

The important thing she said was that Hachiken being troubled by the inevitable need to send off Pork Bowl is that it is getting the other students to think and talk about it. The closer they are to Hachiken, the more they see him troubled by it, and the more they think harder about their "Oh, you're not supposed to name them," attitude. With each of them, it is starting to shift.

Furthermore, because Hachiken got engaged with a particular pig, he went out of his way to learn how to make sure he was properly fattened up so he wouldn't be classified as "Off-Grade." Hachiken took pride in it, and found a way to improve "his" animal. A more detached student might have simply considered it as a loss in the batch and moved on. Instead, a little more effort evened out the overall price the batch of pigs will be able to earn. He also fattened up a few of the others more. A little bit of food will offset the loss from having a pig classified as Off-Grade.

Hachiken's attitude is a learning lesson for him and the other students. Hachiken is catching up to the other students (or maybe even surpassing a few), and the others are learning that a little engagement can really help.

The "because they taste good" part of this arc that you both believe is some kind of "moral dilemma" is meaningless.

[Buffalobiian]

Buff and MFauli, the both of you are completely missing the point of this series. You're focusing on minutiae that doesn't even matter.

I think it is very interesting, or perhaps telling, that neither of you mentioned the GI Jane teacher talking to the other students about why they don't mind Hachiken being troubled by this scenario.

I didn't comment because I didn't see what else I could have added to it. It challenged the comfortable assumption that the seasoned students had, in much the same way that anybody with a different mindset would give a new perspective that others would discuss if not adopt.

I'm much more vocal in discussing how he's handling his own problems at the moment.

I'm looking at the issue as if Hachiken was a vampire who is considering using artificial blood for the rest of his life because he has grown fond of a human. If I was said human and he's weighing me up against "you taste so good", he'd feel pretty shallow to me. It's as if his love is only on the same level as taste.

It's perfectly fine for you to see it as being less important, but it is anything but meaningless. So far, it's the only reason that these animals need to die for.

[David75]

Regarding Mikage's attitude, she might feel cold, but she's now always haging around Hachiken. Felt very clear all ep.
She even speaks about him to other students and all.
But it might be that this show is not really about Hachiken finding love.

[Augury]

I'm inclined to agree with Ryllharu. You guys are really zooming in on a side issue and blowing this moral dilemma out of proportion. It's as if you are taking an issue that is close to your heart and imposing expectations on a story that never planned to address it in the first place.

The show isn't really giving me the feeling that it ever wanted to look at a moral dilemma of whether or not to kill animals. It's a slice of life and comedy, and has treated whether or not to eat food from animals with a humor -- which is okay, because it's aimed to be a feel-good type of story first.

If anything, I'd say that seeing the world differently through self-discovery and dealing with family expectations are themes that are more deeply set, whereas food and meat are used more shallowly and for fun.

[Dark Dragon]

It's perfectly fine for you to see it as being less important, but it is anything but meaningless. So far, it's the only reason that these animals need to die for.

Your analogy using a vampire doesn't work, it would only be comparable if those humans are all in a factory destined to be slaughter in a world rule by vampires. I've been to Japan with a vegetarian friend and it just seems the people there can't completely comprehend not eating any animal at all, especially seafood. That's the kind of society Hachiken was raised in, so his values toward eating animal is created in that environment. For him to suddenly change everything he believes in because he saw a cute piglet, that would be shallow. As Ryllharu and other people have said, Hachiken does not seem to have any moral dilemma in regard to eating animals. He just feel a certain amount of attachment to the pig and has trouble dealing with the reality of farm animal life.

I think i already stated in my other post that even if the entire earth population convert to vegetarianism, it would still be necessary to kill animals. "Because animal taste good" is definitely not the only reason they are being killed.

It actually bothers me a bit that the moral issue only comes up whenever the act of eating meat is involve. There's plenty of other thing that most human beings currently enjoy at the expense of animals. All the technology that you are currently using is the result of mass mining/deforestation that destroyed the homes of many animals and brought many species to extinction. The electricity you're currently using is partially from burning of coal that pollute the environment. The many products that you consume is the direct result of industrialization. Many of the benefit that you enjoy as a member of a first world nation comes at the expense of animals and humans from less developed part of the world. When it comes down to it, do you really need a lot of these things to just live? Probably not. I seriously doubt that most people is going to give up all of their modern convenience while knowing all these facts, so the only reason that you really do it for is for your own enjoyment, convenience and comfort. This moral dilemma is most often brought up when associated to meat because you can make a direct correlation between the act of you eating and the death of an animal. That is not the case with some of these other things. So it's really comes down to "out of sight, out of mind".