Naruto Chapter 635

[UChessmaster]

This is just so idiotic that I will simply assume you were not thinking at all when you posted it. Seriously, the Uchihas vomit up tons of fire all the time so a fireball would of course not hurt them. Seriously.

Are you serious?

Actually there has been a sort of cap that has been established over the course of the series that determines what can or cannot be fixed with medical ninjustsu. Tsunade, Shizune and Sakura and Kabuto were all stated to be sufficiently skilled that they are not limited to what a normal medical ninja can do. Tsunade's and now Sakura's seal and their ability to use Katsuyu puts Tsunade and Sakura in a league of their own. That said even they still have limits. For one thing as has been stated before and as was mentioned again in this chapter Katsuyu's healing abilities directly relates to the strength of its summoner. So that Katsuyu would have enough chakra to keep Tsunade alive in the state she was in is just absurd given that in her battle with Pain for example she collapsed and was comatose for I have no idea how long and that was with Katsuyu and Tsunade was not even severely injured at that point much less bisected. Oh I guess I am trying to make Mfauli's point for him since he is doing a bad job of it even though his point is not my own.

Wasn`t Tsunade healing TONS of people at that point?

There was a clear limit. For example Tsunade could not heal instantly fatal injuries as that would require her to heal death something that is not within her power. Like say if someone ripped out someone's heart or I don't know cut someone in half. There are other things she could not heal too. The damage Naruto inflicted upon himself when he hit Kakuzu with the rasenshuriken for one thing, and strangely Kakashi when he overused MS when fighting Pain. Another thing. Tsunade's healing ability works by regenerating cells, which effectively gives her a temporary form of pseudo-immortality. It does not make her invincible she still takes damage her cells simply regenerate so fast that she can heal from all but the most severe of injuries almost instantly. It has been mentioned that in that state she can even regenerate her damaged or missing organs given enough time but she can damn well still die though.

So she can heal anything as long as its not dead, like when she lost her lower limbs but was still alive so she managed to heal herself yet you call it unrealistic.

This is the difference between Mfauli's stated issue and the issue I have. Tsunade simply has an advanced healing factor, she does not have immortality, not even the level Orochimaru has much less Hidan. Plus it was mentioned that Tsunade's ability is not like what the Kyuubi did for Naruto or what Madara said Hashirama was able to do with his Mokuton. I believe Hashirama's is what Tsunade's technique is based on in the first place. Her regeneration ability is not like Wolverine's, though I really don't want to bring him into this. It doesn't enable her to live forever it in fact puts a tremendous strain on her body to continuously regenerate cells at that rate and drains her life force and shortens her life span which is why she rarely uses it in the first place and why she turns into "an old hag" when she does. It is actually very similar to what happened to Nagato. Tsunade cannot regrow limbs and she can't repair damage done on a cellular level like what Naruto's rasenshuriken does. I think there are a some other limitations that have been mentioned but I can't think of them at the moment. All that aside it is rather unbelievable that Katsuyu has enough chakra to keep two halves of a bisected body alive when she states that she barely has enough chakra to maintain the summoning. Particularly considering the amount of energy Tsunade uses for her technique in the first place. Consider Sakura and how long it took her to save up enough chakra to be able to do the little she has.

Then I honestly don`t understand what your point is, if Tsunade can regenerate any wound as long as she`s not dead, why can`t she regenerate this? considering that she was... you know, not dead.

So yes there are limits, Kishimoto is one of those authors who likes to spend time explaining how things work, chakra, ninjutsu, taijutsu, genjutsu, summoning jutsu, shadow clones, medical ninjutsu, ninja village systems, jinchuuriki whatever. The problem with that is his explanations establish limitations that he later retcons or ignores whenever it becomes convenient. The question I have is very simple it is not whether or not Katsuyu should be able to keep a bisected body alive or whether it should be at all possible to keep a bisected body alive or even whether Tsunade in her severely depleted state would have the chakra required to do so while also keeping the other kages alive no less. My question is simple. Shouldn't being cut in half have killed Tsunade instantly and if not if Tsunade's head gets cut off will Katsuyu be able to keep it alive also and simply reattach it?

It depends WHERE she was cut exactly, if it was only her lower limb she would bleed to death, but i can see katsuyu solving this, above it her guts would spill and she`d die pretty much instantly. As for the whole limit thing, characters in this series often surprass established limits with their techniques, the sharingan does this every 8 chapters, why is it so unreal that Tsunade improved her healing techniques?

Anyway, my rambling above is unimportant. Here is the problem I really have. Over the last fews weeks you have really been annoying me. Well the insane level of rationalizing that you guys( You, DB Hunter, DS, DBZ, etc) have been doing has been annoying me in general. I do believe I mentioned that you guys remind me of people who have been abused for so long that they actually defend the abuse and the person abusing them. You however, make statements like these.

I`ve been annoying you? sorry, never meant to. I simply usually post when I disagree with someone, and that can annoy people sometimes, my bad.

Unlike the others who try to defend this series or explain some of the problems people have. You continuously state that this series is so stupid, illogical, ridiculous, juvenile and unrealistic that we should just all turn off our brains and accept whatever bs Kishi feeds us. Seriously. We should not complain about things we find ridiculous because at this point we should just accept the ridiculousness and undoubtedly when something ridiculous happens next week we will have to discuss how ridiculous it is again. It is not about this technique being ridiculous but that there are tons of ridiculous techniques and you didn't complain about those, or maybe you did, who knows. Watching Nemo and then discovering that you don't like fish. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Ok let`s see if I can clear my point a bit. I don`t think this technique in particular is worth discussing, because the series has had ridiculous techniques since chapter 1. So I ask you this, what makes this technique so absurd? Do consider that I already explained that techniques can be improved and this is likely what happened with Tsunade`s.

You may turn your brain off when you read Naruto and I honestly can't be mad at you for that but turn it back on when you post. Additionally the forum is for everyone to discuss what they want to discuss and not necessarily what you want them to discuss. You really can't complain about them complaining, in particular you can't complain about them complaining by pointing out the lack of complaining about something you yourself deem similarly worthy of complaining about. Are you implying that you would not mind us complaining so much if we complained about every single thing we found unsatisfactory or unbelievable. Would you like me to give you a panel by panel analysis of the next chapter? This is too much and this post is already long. Just try to not be so ridiculous please UC.

A) Insult my intelligence all you want, won`t make your points stronger bro.

B) Yet you complain about me complaining about you guys complaining, cool.

C) I`ve no problem with people complaining, what troubles me is that people complain about the same thing and its honestly growing old, this part of the forum has gone to shit, and mostly it`s because of what his name. Last week Shikamaru`s technique was unrealistic, this week Tsunade`s technique was unrealistic, next week potato face`s technique will be unrealistic.

We seem to be at a crossroad here, we look at the series with different eyes and mindsets, I doubt we`ll get to an agreement so if I`m irking you so much, let`s just agree to disagree then.

[toonice714]

This manga has an unrealistic grasp on all of you. I bet none of you have ever met in person yet you care about what someone says about a CARTOON ABOUT NINJAS.....we all clearly enjoy the series. It just has plot points that make it hard to suspend your disbelief, ESPECIALLY when it stumbles over itself to produce fights or outcomes that are hindered by the previously set rules in the plot.

All in all lets enjoy the manga and discuss how good/bad the chapters are. I mean let's face it it could be worse......we could be reading Bleach right now....*shudders*

Anyways, the kages will show up and power of friendship no jutsu will be in full effect when an injured obito sees the living and dead kage along with the ENTIRE ninja world against his cause. Maybe he will have a change of heart

[Abdula]

This is curious. I wonder if my phrasing is so difficult to understand.

Yes, it was a joke. Are you serious?

I thought you said it was a joke. I didn't read it as such my bad. Is it a joke or not? If you don't know then it is certainly not my fault for not understanding it.

Wasn`t Tsunade healing TONS of people at that point?

Yes Tsunade was healing tons of people at that point. That is my point. She was healing everyone in the village throughout Pain's attack on Konoha and later protected them all from Pain's enormous shinra tensei and that was without becoming aged. That happens when she runs out of chakra. When she did eventually run out of chakra and took on that aged appearance she collapsed and slipped into a coma, which is what allowed Danzo to become Hokage in the first place, and this was with Katsuyu. It is the same thing Kakashi goes on about when referring to his low chakra and overusing MS.

So she can heal anything as long as its not dead, like when she lost her lower limbs but was still alive so she managed to heal herself yet you call it unrealistic.
Then I honestly don`t understand what your point is, if Tsunade can regenerate any wound as long as she`s not dead, why can`t she regenerate this? considering that she was... you know, not dead.

I'll just put these two together since they are the same point. She cannot in fact heal anything but I am not even going into that because my primary point is this. Her healing requires a ton of chakra, it took Sakura years just to save up enough chakra to use the technique. Katsuyu plainly stated that her healing power depends on Tsunade's power and Tsunade barely has enough power to maintain the summoning in the state she is in. If she becomes old when she runs out of power how can she in that state have enough power to do what would be the most power intensive healing she has done so far. I don't know specifically how much power is needed to sustain life in two halves of a bisected body but I think it would be a lot. Certainly a lot more than was needed when Madara impaled her a while ago.

It depends WHERE she was cut exactly, if it was only her lower limb she would bleed to death, but i can see katsuyu solving this, above it her guts would spill and she`d die pretty much instantly. As for the whole limit thing, characters in this series often surprass established limits with their techniques, the sharingan does this every 8 chapters, why is it so unreal that Tsunade improved her healing techniques?

It appears that in stereotypical fashion she was pretty neatly cut it half at some point just above the waist. That would as you say be instantly fatal. I do not care about the sharingan or whether Tsunade has improved her healing techniques, mid battle no less. My points as I stated is that the injury should have killed her instantly and even if she could heal such an injury she did not have the power to do so.

I`ve been annoying you? sorry, never meant to. I simply usually post when I disagree with someone, and that can annoy people sometimes, my bad.

Dude don't be childish. Differing opinions don't annoy me nor does you disagreeing with my opinion. It is that you keep implying whether directly or indirectly that people should stop posting about or reading Naruto if they are just going to complain. What else does telling Mfauli feel free to get a new hobby imply?

Ok let`s see if I can clear my point a bit. I don`t think this technique in particular is worth discussing, because the series has had ridiculous techniques since chapter 1. So I ask you this, what makes this technique so absurd? Do consider that I already explained that techniques can be improved and this is likely what happened with Tsunade`s.

I don't actually care about this technique either. What I find absurd is that Tsunade still is not dead. As I have stated many times I want her to die and I am tired of her death being teased. Yes I acknowledge that techniques can be improved but in this same battle against Madara we saw her get beat to shit and recover though it visibly cost her. Get impaled by Madara which she again recovered from but at a price, she got stabbed by Madara's clones and despite pulling out the sword and healing the external wounds she was still coughing up blood. Not to mention that she used so much chakra healing herself and the kages that she ran out of energy and was unable to use her regeneration technique and needed to be saved by Dan who then restored her chakra.

So it is incredibly hard to believe that after all of this that she and the other kages endured an off screen beating by Madara that was far worse than what he dished out the first time. So bad in fact that it left her severely injured, her body bisected and the other kages in such bad shape Katsuyu had to absorb them in order to preserve their lives. It is just hard to believe that she would have the energy to heal that given the state she is in. It is also hard to believe that simply being reduced to that state would not in itself have killed her even discounting her injuries. Given that when she used too much of her chakra in the battle against Pain and was reduced to that state, she nearly died and was in a coma for an unknown length of time. Speaking of, do you have any idea how long she has simply being lying around like that because Madara left the Kages quite some time ago?

A) Insult my intelligence all you want, won`t make your points stronger bro.

B) Yet you complain about me complaining about you guys complaining, cool.

C) I`ve no problem with people complaining, what troubles me is that people complain about the same thing and its honestly growing old, this part of the forum has gone to shit, and mostly it`s because of what his name. Last week Shikamaru`s technique was unrealistic, this week Tsunade`s technique was unrealistic, next week potato face`s technique will be unrealistic.

We seem to be at a crossroad here, we look at the series with different eyes and mindsets, I doubt we`ll get to an agreement so if I`m irking you so much, let`s just agree to disagree then.

I am not attempting to insult your intelligence. It was a joke. You said I should turn my brain off when I read this so I was just telling you if you turn your brain off when reading this series you should turn it back on before you post. I thought what I meant was pretty clear. If I wanted to insult you I could have implied that you did not have a brain at all.

I am not complaining about you complaining about people complaining. Damn that is redundant. I was merely stating that people have a right to complain particularly when they find something absurd. I was also pointing out how ridiculous you complaining about other people complaining was and questioning the logic behind mentioning a prior lack of complaining for something you deem equally ridiculous. Additionally I was pointing out that complaining about people complaining is typically interpreted as an open invitation for more complaining and your post seemed to be requesting more complaints. That is why I asked if you would like a panel by panel analysis of the next chapter.

The state of the Naruto forum, the amount of complaining and the repetitiveness of the complaints is a reflection of the quality of the series and it is not MFauli's fault. Lol. You can reread the old threads during some of the high points of this series and you will see the difference. Just as you are growing tired of people complaining about the same BS, I for one am extremely tired of reading the same BS. Yes, no one is forcing us to read or complain about Naruto but no one is forcing you to read or respond to our complaints either and the forum is meant for such things.

Besides there is always the off chance that someone will actually do a good job of presenting a plausible explanation for some complaints instead of "priceless one liners." Really Assertn what was the point of that? Edo tensei is not at all related to Tsunade's healing and identifying one ridiculous technique does not make another technique any less ridiculous. Also people coming back from the dead is strangely less unbelievable that someone being cut in half and not dying. One is completely outside the realm of possibility and so my mind does not try to rationalize it all. It is similar to watching a scene in a movie that attempts to be scary or gross but is so over the top that it ends up being funny. The other is something that can and has happened to real people so my mind immediately tries to understand it. Me not questioning Shino walking up to a juubi clone and summoning bugs into it but being floored by Ino-Shika-Cho making a yoyo is another very similar situation.

I don't think we are at an impasse UC. I think this is simply a misunderstanding but we can simply agree to disagree if you wish.

This manga has an unrealistic grasp on all of you. I bet none of you have ever met in person yet you care about what someone says about a CARTOON ABOUT NINJAS.....we all clearly enjoy the series. It just has plot points that make it hard to suspend your disbelief, ESPECIALLY when it stumbles over itself to produce fights or outcomes that are hindered by the previously set rules in the plot.

Ah well at least you seem to understand what I meant but there is nothing wrong with caring. This would be completely pointless if there was not some emotional investment but it is not anything to get worked up over. I don't think we have many fanatics here.

[toonice714]

Yeah I get what you are saying. I'm not trying to shoot jabs at any of you guys, I just think these discussions are bound to happen when the story fumbles over itself to essentially crowd please. We all know that there are almost unwritten power levels in the series placed there to make certain match ups plausible. Hell the fact that orochimaru is present for this battle and up to speed on all the goings thanks to (what is essentially spectator mode) the cursed seal is really silly. Honestly I feel we all had a certain level of respect for the story prior to what is just poor character, plot and tone progression.
In regards to the "arguing", its hard to discern some things through text. It's really just toneless conversation. We interpret it as WE read it. I would like to be the first to say I don't mean any personal attacks. I just wanna talk about manga in my down time from work :-/

[darkshadow]

Katsuyu wasn't healing anyone, she stopped the injuries from progressing to death; think of it as cryogenic freezing, maintaining the bare minimum of vitals wouldn't cost that much energy hence her comment about sustaining the summon and oro's comment about the snails pace of the recovery.
This wasn't healing, it was life support.

But then again, this explains all of your shitty reasoning:

As I have stated many times I want her to die and I am tired of her death being teased

[Abdula]

Ah DS. Yes she was not healing anyone she stopped fatal injuries from progressing to death and that naturally does not require healing. Really?

Why do you assume that maintaining life in a bisected body would not cost that much energy. Did you miss when I said we have no idea how much it would cost to sustain life in two halves of a bisected body but I am assuming it would be more than was needed to heal a stab wound. Not to mention that she would be doing the same for the other kages as well since I doubt their injuries were any less life threatening, as Madara was trying to kill them all. I so don't want to have to restate points I already made since you are probably going to dismiss them anyway.

Here it is, over explaining again.

Tsunade's mitotic regeneration jutsu requires a megaton of chakra. It is a forbidden technique because it works by forcing the body to rapidly generate new cells as opposed to simply repairing damaged ones. It puts a tremendous strain on the user and drastically shortens their life span. As has been shown many times when Tsunade runs out of chakra she collapses and reverts to her aged appearance. In the very beginning of this battle Naruto asked her if using her technique was not going to cause her to collapse like she did when Pain attacked Konoha. She that unlike then she isn't using her technique on anyone else only on herself and her injuries aren't severe and she still has a lot of chakra saved up. Earlier in this very same battle when she was running low on chakra she had to deflect a few of Madara's fireballs and simply healing her burnt arms required so much power that her technique ran out and she collapsed and had to be saved from Madara by Dan.

Lets move on to summoning. As we know high level summons like Katsuyu, Gamabunta and Manda require a ton of chakra. Jiraiya had to throw Naruto off a cliff just to force his body to use enough of the Kyuubi's chakra to summon anything bigger than a young Gamakichi. The only people who have used such high level summoning at all, much less in battle, were The sannin and their various students, Hanzo, Pain, and Hiruzen(if you count Enma). They are all powerhouses.

Assuming you aren't going to dispute any of that here is my shitty reasoning as you put it. Simple assumptions based on things that were explicitly stated. Tsunades technique requires a ton of chakra to use. The fact that it took Sakura so long just to store enough chakra to use it reinforces that. Summoning Katsuyu also requires a ton of chakra. Katsuyu said that she is using Tsunade's technique and the reason Tsunade's recovery is so slow is because Tsunade has so little power that Katsuyu has to focus on maintaining the summoning. This would not be so much of an issue if Kishi had not spent years establishing how much chakra all these techniques require and spent years establishing that when Tsunade takes on that aged appearance it is because she is completely out of energy. Even without those 2 established facts it would not be a problem but that he made Katsuyu state explicitly that her power depends on Tsunade's byakugo power when Tsunade is in a state where she is unable to use said power. Amazing!


Back to semantics, Katsuyu's words implied that she was indeed attempting to heal Tsunade and not simply maintain life support and the healing was going very slowly because she could not use her full power but as I said it is semantics. I just really find it odd that you would say that when I specifically mentioned how much energy would be required simply to sustain life in Tsunade's state and even inquired as to how long she has been like this. My best guess is that it has been a few hours at least. Time enough for Madara to leave the kages and get to Obito, that battle to happen, Sasuke and company to arrive and Orochimaru get to Tsunade. That said it is hard to believe that Tsunade has the power to maintain the summoning and sustain her own life and that of the other kages in the state she is in. Just prior to this, when she was in obviously much better condition, simply healing some mostly superficial and definitely not life threatening burns cause her technique to run out and she collapsed.

Whatever though and I am going to ignore the implication that the reason for my supposed shitty reasoning is that I am foaming at the mouth to see Tsunade die and will of course be unsatisfied with anything less than her gruesome death. Lol. I guess you saw my simple statement that I want her to die as bait and you of course took it. Her death is not that important by the way, just something that has been hinted at numerous times now and yet never happened. The deaths of the 2 other Sannin were hinted at equally as much and in Orochimaru's case "happened" more than once even. So I just wanted her to but Oro is back now so whatever. I guess Jiraiya should have developed some form of an immortality jutsu like the other two.

My problem is that this is all just bad writing. Tsunade lives, Tsunade dies, whatever. Just explain it properly. Not to mention that this means that the great and powerful Madara, Madara whose very name is dread, could not even manage to kill the 5 kage. Props to him.

[Assertn]

Lot's of TLDR in this thread all of a sudden. Let me just put my two cents in:

1) Cutting a person through the waist does not immediately kill them. If we are to believe that medical ninjutsu is just rapid regeneration of cells, then all Katsuyu is doing is reconnecting what's been severed. A surefire mortal way to kill Tsunade would've been to slice through her skull, instead.

2) Anyone remember how Tsunade only had a 50% chance at fixing Lee's spine? Lol.

[Y]

Good lord stop writing enormous walls of text you stupid fuckers.

[Abdula]

Lol

@ Assertn
Exactly and it is hard to believe that Madara after mentioning numerous times that Hashirama's techniques were superior to Tsunade's would not know how to kill her. Considering how marvelously inconsistent he has been I am willing to believe he just gave them a beating for the hell of it. Tsunade has given her speech about never dying in battle but that lasts only so long as she has the chakra for it. This reminds me of Kakashi telling Naruto that he has 2x his chakra now go make 999 clones.

Yeah I remember and the histrionics about Neji almost dying and Choji using the food pills. Blah Blah. I also wonder why Sakura didn't whip this out to go save Neji you know or maybe she had only stored up enough chakra at the exact moment Sasuke arrived.

[darkshadow]

Ah DS. Yes she was not healing anyone she stopped fatal injuries from progressing to death and that naturally does not require healing. Really?

Yeah, because that's what life support does, aiding in vital functions to prevent the subject from dying, there isn't actually any healing involved.

I didn't read the rest of your scientific paper.

[Abdula]

Hahahaha.

Yes DS. I gathered from your previous post in which you brought up a point I had already mentioned that you do not bother to read my posts before responding to them, as that would require you to be far less smug. If your ego ever allows you to descend to the level of the rest of us and actually read a post before responding to it, let me know. I fear you will somehow only manage to become more condescending though.

This was pretty short I hope you read it.

[darkshadow]

Are you refering to this?:

Why do you assume that maintaining life in a bisected body would not cost that much energy. Did you miss when I said we have no idea how much it would cost to sustain life in two halves of a bisected body but I am assuming it would be more than was needed to heal a stab wound.

"Why do you assume" goes both ways, cept your assumption is really stupid; you really think it would require more energy to stop someone from bleeding out and keep the heart going than it would to actively repair and restore the damaged or missing tissue from a stab wound?

If you were refering to some other argument you made you'll have to point it out for me, or just stop writing instruction manuals in the future.

[Keno]

Tsunade surviving is lame IMO. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Jiraiya was swallowed by a giant sea unicorn with magical powers that revived his body and called back his soul. It just takes X amount of days (x being whatever time has passed until he arrives). Or hell, maybe Neji got impaled by those Juubi sticks that were infused with some sort of chemical that froze his insides so even though he appeared to die, he's just there waiting for Tsunade to do some uber medical defrost jutsu so he lives too.

Or, if they are really "dead", then probably Naruto somehow will get the rinnegan at the end of the manga and do that resurrection thingy and revive EVERYONE. Itachi, Nagato, his mum and pops, Jiraiya, Neji, Asuma, Hiruzen, the whole Uchiha clan, Zabuza, Haku, and everyone who died in this fail "war". One big happy shounen family and World Peace.

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