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Thread: Suisei no Gargantia

  1. #101
    Pit Lord shinta|hikari's Avatar
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    I bet that those squids are at least farther than chimpanzees compared to humans in terms of DNA. Still, I don't really mind cannibalism.
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  3. #103
    Procacious Polymath Ryllharu's Avatar
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    Chamber's take is certainly an interesting one. I feel like I shouldn't agree with it though, since it is justifying genocide against a "less civilized" people solely on the basis that they are more self-reliant and don't require machines and the culture to support those machines. Still, it is a pretty convincing argument. The Hideauze have devolved into beasts and reject civilization, and destroying them is a means to maintain civilization. By continuing to fight against them, Ledo can continue to protect people like Amy's brother, who would not survive without some form of civilization.

    Though I am even more disturbed that Ledo's commander also ended up on Earth, and apparently chose to dominate the civilization that found him and turn them into a creepy cult.

    Lastly, Pinion is an asshole.

  4. #104
    Good episode like usual but what was bothering me the whole episode with Ledo's reaction to the Hideauze being human were that he had no qualms about dinistegrating MANY humans into space dust in an instant. And these humans, you know actually looked human instead of some fucking squids.

  5. #105
    Lets pulverize pirates, but a squid related to the greatest enemy of mankind causes a breakdown because of it's humanoid shape or background ?

    I get it, it's tough to have something like H larva look like children but shit, the things tried to eat Belows and that would be an unthinkable loss of boobs.

  6. #106
    Vampiric Minion Kraco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animus View Post
    Good episode like usual but what was bothering me the whole episode with Ledo's reaction to the Hideauze being human were that he had no qualms about dinistegrating MANY humans into space dust in an instant. And these humans, you know actually looked human instead of some fucking squids.
    It was somewhat deeper than that. The pirates were limited, specific enemies. He was even okay with the Alliance's way of eliminating weak individuals who couldn't contribute to the cause (even though he seems to have a trauma about that one kid who disappeared). So, he wasn't shaken by crushing individual Hideauze now, but more like feeling his whole world view and purpose for existing were being destroyed or at least twisted. Somewhat related to this, I seem to recall, though it has been too long to remember, far in the past Twilight Zone or a similar show had an episode where human space marines (or something like that) were fighting space monsters. They were required to wear their combat suit including the helmet all the time (or maybe it was some drug). Due to some event some of them noticed they weren't fighting space aliens at all but other humans. The helmet or drug simply altered their vision so that the enemies looked like aliens.

    But yeah, Chamber's speech was quite interesting indeed, and no doubt it has much truth in it. Although we still don't know the full history of aggression in space. It seems like on Earth ordinary humans possibly attacked first, though. I reckon the war has continued in space ever since, despite the fact the space Hideauze are nothing like they once were and space humans have long since rewritten the history.

    The situation on Earth looked very different before Ledo arrived. There was no ongoing war, simply rare clashes. However, it's entirely possible the war in space won't stop before one side is elimated. This Hideauze massacre on Earth might have changed Earth's future as well, assuming the Hideauze have other nests.

  7. #107
    I knew the commander would show up. I just wonder if he has been on the planet the length that Ledo has. It is interesting that he seems to have taken the path of dominance as opposed to Ledo's choice to live next to the people of the planet.

    Pinion turned in to a total ass this episode. He gained a little bit of power and lost it. He basically wishes to do what the commander did and build his own empire. I could care less if he died in the coming confrontation.

    Chamber has some interesting logic as others have pointed out. He built a extremely well argument for why Ledo can't back down. I can see why Ledo would still hesitate though. He never had to massacre entire troves of children who were evolved humans. His society did kill children but Ledo was not the one pressing the button.

  8. #108
    Family Friendly Mascot Buffalobiian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animus View Post
    Good episode like usual but what was bothering me the whole episode with Ledo's reaction to the Hideauze being human were that he had no qualms about dinistegrating MANY humans into space dust in an instant. And these humans, you know actually looked human instead of some fucking squids.
    Ledo's changed over time as well. The attack on pirates happened soon after he woke up, while this is likely to be several months later after he's absorbed some of the values of Gargantia. There's also the case of the pirates being aggressors who threatened people, while the whalesquids are currently harmless unless provoked. Then there's the case of killing young Hideauze, which is the equivalent of killing civilians. That's going to be a shocker for anybody who still has a heart.

    It's reassuring to know that Chamber is ultimately loyal to Ledo. He certainly won't kill him, but there's definitely room for independent action in the name of "setting Ledo up for success".

    As for future events, I'm going to guess that Ledo and some of the fleet will be heading back to Gargantia (perhaps with Flange), while Pinion and the rest would stay with the new commander. Then Pinion might die.

    Pinion's action against the pirates themselves wasn't unwarranted though. The pirates attacked first (from what we've been told), so he kept shooting them until they surrendered. That's sound. If you kept shooting them after they've surrendered, that's another thing.

    Telling people to F-off isn't smart, but not bad. The whole "If someone brings me fish, I'm going to give them water" philosophy still applies, only that you don't have to accept the fish unless you wanted it. I doubt even Gargantians engage with every trade offer. The only thing "bad" about the broadcast was that it attracted people who wouldn't have come anyway due to the whalesquids. which resulted in unnecessary casualties.
    Last edited by Buffalobiian; Sun, 06-09-2013 at 11:07 PM.

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  9. #109
    Burning out, no really... David75's Avatar
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    Commander:
    Did he follow Ledo when he missed the wormhole or did he somehow come later when some scientist calculated the coordinates Ledo might have been?
    In the second case, scientist could make asumptions, then send probes to say 100 coordinates and get the SOS...
    But for some reason, I think the alliance could care less about a machine caliber and ensign.

    So now, that the commander is there, Ledo can't be the king of the hill anymore. So whatever the guy wants, Ledo has to submit. And it's probably Hideauze wipeout.

    Thing is, the elements Chambers showed us indicate that earth Hideauze can become as dangerous as space Hideauze pretty quickly.
    If I understand correctly, Space Hideauze are in symbiose with those algae and can extract power for weapons, life support in space and stronger shells too. That also explains why they had the sun at their back when the alliance attacked, sunlight being their primary source of energy. Earth Hideauze only need to do the same, but never had the will to. So somehow they never took the path to wage war against mankind when they could. And they clearly would anihilate earth humans with ease.

    But I suspect Ledo's and that commander's actions will change that and we have earth Hideauze switching to the highly lethal version... The other impact meaning no more electricity for earth humans...

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  10. #110
    Vampiric Minion Kraco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryllharu View Post
    Though I am even more disturbed that Ledo's commander also ended up on Earth, and apparently chose to dominate the civilization that found him and turn them into a creepy cult.
    If there indeed is a weird cult, like the glimpses suggested, I wonder how it will turn out now that they meet the people from Gargantia. Gargantians are used to a spaceman who is useless and somewhat clumsy at most stuff aside from fighting but largely harmless to those he considers allies. If the commander had given a vastly different image of himself, thus forming the cult, then he might find it hard to take command of these people. Especially someone like Pinion wouldn't bow down easily, and the others at least wouldn't think that much of a spaceman, even if they might submit to superior force.

    Not that I'd expect Ledo to condone such an approach.

  11. #111
    Burning out, no really... David75's Avatar
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    Regarding Chamber's speech, my opinion is that it's not fair. More that his argument is also valid for the Hideauze.

    Without the algae, Hideauze can't survive in space. Those algae are the equivalent of machine calibers for humans and are also the cristallisation of their intellect and "civilization" so to speak.

    Chamber's speech was also a tad sad in that I felt it also implied that the pinacle of a civilisation is in the refinement of the weapons it creates. Hideauze seem to be very good at that too, or they would not have survived the alliance...

    All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.

  12. #112
    Vampiric Minion Kraco's Avatar
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    It's just two vastly different forms of life. Hideauze don't need civilization any more than a tiger needs civilization or anything external to be the most perfect killing machine on land. However, without civilization humans are nothing but weak prey, incapable of achieving anything much. I didn't take Chamber's word to mean machine caliber as a weapon is the pinnacle of civilization, but it's possibly the most advanced piece of any machinery humans have created, and that's a sum of the capability of the civilization. Considering they are locked in an eternal war, it makes sense their best efforts are invested in weapons. The speech was biased, but why wouldn't it be? Chamber has a purpose, and it's still unclear if it can alter that purpose like a human can.

  13. #113
    In light of all that's been revealed so far I've been thinking back to the opening of the show, we saw the Humans warping into the region around a planet that seemed to be totally controlled and well defended by the Hideauze.

    I can't help but wonder given that we know the Galactic Alliance is not exactly the most transparent and democratic organization and that I don't recall ever seeing the Hideauze go out of their way to be aggressive towards humans that weren't getting close to territory they wanted to defend and that the Hideauze (space and sea) seem like they have evolved to have very little overlap area in which to come into conflict over resources with humans that the grand war between the Galactic Alliance and the Hideauze is actually a one-sided campaign of genocide being waged by the descendants of the survival through technology faction against the descendants of the survival through evolution faction that left Earth to escape the ice age.

    To add another stick onto the fire even if my speculation is totally off base I still fully expect a reveal that the name 'Hideauze' will turn out to be a bastardization of 'Hideous' and its root will be as a propaganda/slang term used by the Continental Union types to refer to what the Evolvers became to polarize public opinion against them even in order to maintain their people's cohesion and discipline during the tough early years of wandering through space after leaving Earth.

    As for Chamber's speech I think it makes some existential sense if the humans and Hideauze have to share space and compete for limited resources. However, I am not convinced that the humans actually need to wipe the Hideauze out in order to thrive and prosper in the galaxy at large. It will depend on how aggressively the Hideauze go about expanding their territory and how much effort it would take the humans to set themselves up on the opposite side of the galaxy and just leave the Hideauze alone.

    I think the situation that existed on Earth prior to Ledo's coming is supposed to show that it's actually quite possible for humans and Hideauze to coexist peacefully and just stay out of each others way if only the Galactic Alliance leadership would stop carrying the ax for the Hideauze that their ancestors had.

  14. #114
    Vampiric Minion Kraco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukimura View Post
    I think the situation that existed on Earth prior to Ledo's coming is supposed to show that it's actually quite possible for humans and Hideauze to coexist peacefully and just stay out of each others way if only the Galactic Alliance leadership would stop carrying the ax for the Hideauze that their ancestors had.
    We don't know enough. The beginning of the show had a sort of propaganda feeling to it, but nevertheless we did see multiple destroyed colony ships. I can't imagine Alliance would take those anywhere near the front lines. Whether they were devastated in retaliation by Hideauze or if Hideauze actively sought them out to wipe them out, who knows. What we do know, however, is that Hideauze (or Evolvers) can evolve very rapidly and they also seem to excel in space warfare. This means, in my opinion, that even if it wasn't a war loving species in the beginning, it could be now, after centuries of evolving to get better and better at fighting. On Earth Hideauze haven't had any need, for a long time, to be able to destroy any serious threats.

  15. #115
    Can we all agree that the best character of the show is Chambers ?
    The whole debate on the Hideauze righteousness will go nowhere until the season ends.

  16. #116
    Burning out, no really... David75's Avatar
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    [HorribleSubs] Suisei no Gargantia - 11 [720p].mkv

    I was just wondering if Kugel really is in there, alive. It would be entirely possible for that machine caliber to create a virtual clone and use it for communication... and then establish alliance rules on that fleet and Earth.
    It's not that Kugel would not be able to do so himself, I just found the setting a tad fishy.

    All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.

  17. #117
    Family Friendly Mascot Buffalobiian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David75 View Post
    [HorribleSubs] Suisei no Gargantia - 11 [720p].mkv

    I was just wondering if Kugel really is in there, alive. It would be entirely possible for that machine caliber to create a virtual clone and use it for communication... and then establish alliance rules on that fleet and Earth.
    It's not that Kugel would not be able to do so himself, I just found the setting a tad fishy.
    It does sound fishy, though I'm not sure if that's because Kugel is dead..

    I just hope it doesn't take long for Ledo's inevitable "wakeup" moment where he stops following orders or destinies and does what he thinks is right. He seemed so glad to puppy back to Kugel, it was a little disgusting to watch. Considering they were pretty good buds though, maybe it had more to do with a reunion and less to do with rejoining the Alliance command chain.

    Pinion's join was easier to swallow. Even though he acted casually, he was putting the fleet's safety first and foremost.

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  18. #118
    Burning out, no really... David75's Avatar
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    Ledo rushed to Kugel, because it was a soothing and easy choice. He was just escaping most of his internal strugles and it felt easy to go back to being an underdog.
    He even stated he's not able to be a leader, and it's true he doesn't seem like he possesses the traits at his young age.
    But it seems obvious he won't blindly acknowledge orders, even more so when he's ordered to kill people from Gargantia...
    He also felt the "happiness" definition from the alliance he a lot different from the one he felt in Gargantia, another way that felt efficient and good against all odds and appearances.

    Regarding body fluids and grooming, well I guess the suits and the seats do what's necessary... After all, that matter vaporising laser probably also works there and even converts those excretions into energy/simple matter or whatever needed for life support.

    All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.

  19. #119
    Vampiric Minion Kraco's Avatar
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    Episode 11 - UTW-Vivid


    Quote Originally Posted by David75 View Post
    Ledo rushed to Kugel, because it was a soothing and easy choice. He was just escaping most of his internal strugles and it felt easy to go back to being an underdog.
    That's definitely it. Kugel might not have been a bad man in the beginning, yet it must have been quite a hit to first find a paradise like Earth after the emptiness of space, then find he can't leave the cockpit. So, he can't appreciate the kind of healthier life Earthlings live and might have even grown to resent it in his isolation. Ledo is the opposite, naturally, so I don't think their chemistry will work for long. Especially if Ledo was tasked to bring the dreariness and rule by fear upon Gargantia. The threat of Hideauze is the single thing they share, but even that Ledo is doubting more and more.

    I'm not even sure it has to proceed all the way to Kugel's cult decreeing Bevel useless before Ledo will reject Kugel.

  20. #120
    Procacious Polymath Ryllharu's Avatar
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    I got the impression that Kugel was lying, but that's just me.

    I was more interested in the fact that Rackage seems to have matured years since her defeat by Ledo. She plans on using Pinion's immediate dislike of the cult combined with his new position of trust to free her and her crew. She might still be a pirate, but she seems to have understood that the end result of her lifestyle is this kind of cult, where even people she might like end up as slaves and others constantly have to watch what they say about those at the top of the pyramid. Now that she's not the one at the top of their little pyramid, she developed a new perspective.

    There was a distinct mellowing about her, even when she returned to her own ship.

    I would like to see her join Gargantia so we can see her fight with Bellows over Pinion.

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