Hataraku Maou-sama!

[Yukimura]

It's still not really working for me. For example the scene with the Hero getting locked out was rather funny, but then they let her in and it was like it never happened, the comedy was there but the narrative seemed completely suborned to it, which is unfortuante for me as the narritive is what drew me to the show in the first place.

I think the biggest detractor for me is the gap between what the plot says the characters should feel towards each other and how they actually act in order to construct comedic situations. The plot says Maoh and Hero are mortal enemies with good reason to hate each other but they act less hostile towards one another than most tsundere and pervy guy combos. If not for the mystery aspect introduced by the magical attack I don't think I'd download the third ep and even though I will I have strong doubts the show will end up being worth it for me.

[Kraco]

Not that I'd ever want to defend this show, but since Maou is actually nothing like a king of demons in the first place (or actually second place, since in the first place of the other world he did seem like one), it makes more sense. After all, Hero should be... You know, a hero. So, if a hero noticed the maou is actually acting like a lowly human toiling his days away at an honest job, why would the hero anymore want to slay the maou?

But other than that weak, limping half-explanation, there's nothing in the plot supporting it. It just happened to serve the (largely missing) comedy.

[Ryllharu]

Come on.

Two people (three if you count...however you spell his name), thrown in a world none of them know, both a little helpless without their powers, none of them knowing if they'll ever get home. You don't think they'd find a little common ground even if they were mortal enemies? Especially now that they are getting attacked by some mysterious third party who definitely has the upper hand.

Having to rely on Maou is humiliating Emilia, but unlike Maou, she's absolutely alone here.

[Yukimura]

I think the first step to discussing this further is to state flatly that in my case suspension of disbelief has proven impossible for this show already. Because I can't take the show seriously and look at it from solely within its universe I can't reasonably engage in a discussion where I am limited to using only in universe facts to explain my feelings about the show or my acceptance of particular events or behaviors that are canonical within the universe.

I don't/can't/won't believe that the Demon King and Hero described in the prologue could possibly be the same characters we've seen since the action moved to Earth. They are simply too far removed from what I project the people in the prologue would have had to be like to be where they were and doing what they were doing before they ended up on Earth. This is not to say there are not believable things about them, merely that there are not enough of them to make the whole package swallowable.

The playes look more like trope transport vehicles than actual, even one dimensional, characters. No explanation is going to be sufficient to account for the apparent personality and priority shift and if their current personalities were their personalities from the beginning then I can't accept the initial conditions that brought them to their current predicament as plausible.

[FelixZeroAlastor]

[Commie] Hataraku Maou-sama! Episode 3

[Archangel]

You know a show is low budget when the opening looks like something out of windows media player.

[MFauli]

omg, the aneurisms, they keep coming :/

The ending scene was actually kind of badass, epic even. And ruined when Maou told Emi "Take care of her". Ugh. YOU ARE EVIL, YOU DO NOT SAVE!!1

It´s ironic/sad how many of the things characters in this show casually say is what the audience has to wonder themselves.
"What kind of demon lord is he?!", outrageously asked by Emi, when she spots Maou being on a date.
Or in the very beginning when his underling tells Maou what he would´ve done with the keys, and Maou answers with "You´re a demon.", in accusingly manner.

ARGH!!!1

And this evil demon appearing here makes no sense. Maou is THE evil being, the evil of all evil.

Furthermore, and this might be too philosophical a stance for such a show, but anyway: It would NOT be a happy end, if Maou somehow ended up on the good side. Why? Because to him, being evil is NOT being evil. In his view, what he does is what´s "good". And what´s good for most of us, is evil to him. Good and Evil are switched, when it´s about the Evil of all Evil. That´s why I find it sad that it seems that he´s going to turn full-on good in time.
It´s especially bad, since, again, the ending of this episode proved how fantastic this anime´s atmosphere could have been. Dat music.

[Uchiha Barles]

Can we just take the show for what it is? Ridiculous premise with good comedy? Besides, this is japanese animation we're talking about here. Bad guys routinely are not bad, but rather misunderstood. Sure he's trying to conquer whatever land they're from, but why? Plus, he's supposed to be some version of Satan right? He's been portrayed as a misunderstood lover of freedom an autonomy. There's nothing wrong with this show.

[Ryllharu]

Agreed. It feels like we've been having the same discussion each week.

- The Maou is pathetic, he's not evil enough now that he's here, etc.

It's a comedy ffs. Of course the situation is ridiculous. That's why it is funny.

The demon lord is more interested in getting money than doing evil. He's more interested in the happiness of his adorable co-worker than making her his slave. He's powerless, the hero is powerless. The Hero acts more like an ex-girlfriend who broke it off but gets super jealous when he's with another girl and not obsessing about her all the time the way she continues to obsess about him. The two keep calling on each other when they're in trouble, despite how much they hate each other. The new girl gets feisty when the "ex-girlfriend" wants to butt in. The demon lord keeps getting dragged into the police station, but sits quietly and obeys the rules.

That's funny. Stop pretending this series is anything other than a comedy.


So maybe for some of you, your suspension of disbelief has been ruined by the opening of the first episode (anime original I found out btw). Can't the lot of you come up with some other reasons that you think this series sucks? I can only retort to those kinds of arguments the same way each time.

[Kraco]

Episode 4 - FFF






-- --- - - -- --




So, if I interpreted this episode's message correclty, Maou was never particularly evil. He simply had never met a human, never visited the human societies nor in any way made himself familiar with them. Perhaps he had heard that humans like to wage war and they have great warriors and heroes. And so he wanted to give them a grand war and make them subjects to his unholiness so that they'd never need to live without conflicts in their lives. He never realised that's actually the one thing humans didn't want. Now in Japan, he sees for the first time with his own eyes that most of humans in fact have no love for battles. Naturally(?) he decides to honour that discovery.

Dunno, quite a stretch. Lucifer rather has what it takes to be a demon.

In the end nothing forces an evil being to do fell deeds. A good being can only do good deeds, lest it becomes evil, but an evil one can do whatever they want, be it good or bad. However, if there's no desire to ignore the wishes and lives of others and use them as mere steppingstones to greater power, then it's an open question why such a character did anything evil in the first place, to gain the repuration of being evil. It's a bit hard to connect the name Satan to the old saying of the worst deeds being done with the best of intentions.

[David75]

So Lucifer would be Emilia's father killer and Satan had no passions about war and so on... he was merely a tool? like a paper king or something. He lived his happy life in his castle, only heard there was war, but never understood what was at stake?
I wonder if that will really work.

Now regarding Lucifer, it seems he understood where/how to get mana/power. In his case, from some people dark feelings.
I only write some, as it seems Chi-chan is his source, rather than anyone around.

I would not like Emilia to be the power source for Maou, and then I wonder what source Emilia will have to find.

[Ryllharu]

So Lucifer would be Emilia's father killer and Satan had no passions about war and so on... he was merely a tool? like a paper king or something. He lived his happy life in his castle, only heard there was war, but never understood what was at stake?
I wonder if that will really work.

Now regarding Lucifer, it seems he understood where/how to get mana/power. In his case, from some people dark feelings.
I only write some, as it seems Chi-chan is his source, rather than anyone around.

I would not like Emilia to be the power source for Maou, and then I wonder what source Emilia will have to find.

I would say more like powerful and evil people found their way to Maou, who was even more powerful, but didn't really care one way or the other. They guided him to doing evil deeds, hiding behind his coattails when the more powerful members of the church struck back. Alsiel's demeanor is more like Maou's.

Emilia has a hard time accepting that Maou was really just doing whatever he wanted, backing up his more nefarious allies in their evil endeavors. He didn't really care one way or the other. He was strong, at most he figured he should be the supreme ruler (or was convinced he should be) and sought to make it so. If people fought back, he annihilated them. Sounds a lot like Superior to me.

Chi-chan must be special somehow. Maou probably got power from her too. I don't think it is a matter that he hypnotized her father and that somehow bled off onto her. She's the special one, her father is just coincidental.


I was kind of hoping that Maou would tell Emelia he was being nice to her because she's here all alone, while he at least has one of his lackeys (though little do they know that Emelia's allies are on the way).

[shinta|hikari]

I completely understand Emilia's feelings when she heard Satan's excuse. "Your father died because I was ignorant." Yeah, it would have been better if he was an evil asshole, but instead, we have a hands off powerhouse ruler who simply did not have the time/desire to understand humans. It makes it difficult to completely hate him, making Emilia hate him all the more.

That said, I also understand Maou's situation. His (stupid) light apology for what he has done (allowed to happen) exemplifies his ignorance. He really did not know what his conquest meant. He really did not understand humans. Even now, he does not completely understand them, judging from how he handled his apology towards Emilia.

The inconsistent parts that people have been complaining about are slowly being explained. It would be unfair to say that just because this is a comedy that things don't have to make sense. They are gradually starting to.

[MFauli]

Agreed. It feels like we've been having the same discussion each week.

- The Maou is pathetic, he's not evil enough now that he's here, etc.

It's a comedy ffs. Of course the situation is ridiculous. That's why it is funny.

The demon lord is more interested in getting money than doing evil. He's more interested in the happiness of his adorable co-worker than making her his slave. He's powerless, the hero is powerless. The Hero acts more like an ex-girlfriend who broke it off but gets super jealous when he's with another girl and not obsessing about her all the time the way she continues to obsess about him. The two keep calling on each other when they're in trouble, despite how much they hate each other. The new girl gets feisty when the "ex-girlfriend" wants to butt in. The demon lord keeps getting dragged into the police station, but sits quietly and obeys the rules.

That's funny. Stop pretending this series is anything other than a comedy.


So maybe for some of you, your suspension of disbelief has been ruined by the opening of the first episode (anime original I found out btw). Can't the lot of you come up with some other reasons that you think this series sucks? I can only retort to those kinds of arguments the same way each time.

And episode 4 proves you wrong.

Is this a comedy anime? Personally, I haven´t laughed once in all those episodes so far. Maybe chuckeld a bit during ep1 when the world change happened with all its consequences.
But now we have an event like that: A magical being presenting itself in broad daylight, destroying its surroundings, not giving a shit about this magic-less reality, and following an archetypical villain´s plan.

THAT is why I´m still bitterly disappointing in so many things about this show. The premise is fucking A-awesome. The most evil being slipping into our normal world, (mostly) without his powers, having to deal with a human being´s everyday life. What we got is an EXTREMELY non-sensical mishmash of harem-and general anime-tropes, without any cleverness, without characters that make sense in themselves. You say we should just accept it? Guess what: When I look at Maou now, I feel sad, I feel bad for him. Why? Because somehow he was changed from being absolute evil to this standard-fare anime-hero. If you shut off your brain, you might just say "oh well, isn´t it nice that he had a change of heart?". NO. It is not nice. Imagine this: You are changed to the exact opposite person you are right now. If you´re a communist, now you´re a nazi. If you´re straight, now you´re gay. If you like Jojo, now you hate him. And so on. Now also imagine that somehow you can observe this changed persona of yourself. Would you really think "oh well, isn´t that nice?" The hell you would.
As I see it, Maou died. He was killed. Because it´s our mind that defines who we are. A person can be killed by having its body ruined, but so can it through the loss of memory. And this Maou we´re currently watching is not the real Maou. He "good" for good people, but he´s in a truly sad, pitiable state from his own kind´s perspective. And, since he is the main character, that´s the perspective that should have to count.
It makes no sense, and isn´t resulting in exciting scenes, and most of all, it´s not funny.

And what is it that proves you wrong? Again, these perfectly awesome fantasy-scenes like the one at the end of ep4. For fuck´s sake, I had a bit of a Gantz-feeling here, that´s how awesome it was (even though the people´s reaction wasn´t strong enough - there´s a black winged angel, you idiots, scream louder! panic!). And that´s exactly the kind of chilling atmosphere that the intro of episode 1 promised. You can go on with your "then stop watching, idiot"-agenda, OR you could try to understand why some of us are disappointed in how this anime unfolded.

Just for completion´s sake, here´s how I´d have love this anime to go on:
- Maou arrives in our reality, power´s gone
- his attitude is the same from when he was the most powerful, most evil demon
- he starts walking around in public, talking loudly, saying stuff that´s super embarrassing for any normal person, you know
- he begins acting on his attitude, which promptly gets him into trouble. Like "stealing" or tossing some "worthless human" to the ground.
- quickly, he realizes that something´s gotten wrong, very wrong, and he keeps a low profile from here on out
- what follows now is Maou aka "Yagami Light" trying to solve the mystery of his lost powers, how to regain them, and how to conquer this reality, too. He does that by keeping a fake-nice guy-appearance on the outside, but his thoughts are pure, dark evil. And as time progresses, his power in the real world rises (working his way up in some business), his plans take form and become grander and crueler. All that while Emilia, the hero, is watching Maou, trying to figure out if he´s really gone "good", or if she can justify killing him - since she´s a true hero, she couldn´t bring it over herself to kill somebody who isn´t evil anymore. Then you could have added in elements like Lucifer to spice things up.

THAT IS HOW AWESOME THIS ANIME COULD HAVE BEEN - following it´s premise from the beginning. Yes, of course, it is silly to expect these exact plot elements to happen, but come on, it´s as if the author decided to show the opening sequence just to troll everybody.

[Ryllharu]

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

Did you not even pay attention to Maou's explanation that enraged Emilia? He was evil in Ente Isla because he didn't give a shit, and never bothered to learn differently. He just did whatever he felt like. Other, more blatantly evil (but weaker) beings never tried to dissuade him, and for all we know, went crying to him about how some church members drove them off. Lucifer stated it quite plainly, he's "about to finally" surpass Maou with the power he's been stealing from Chiho and others. Lucifer was weaker than Maou was, and bowed to Maou, but longed to take his place the whole time. If Maou or his underlings got attacked, he fought back. That makes him "evil" to the humans, but it never made him an evil guy.

I'm not really sure what is so hard to understand. He's never been all that evil, but his underlings sure as hell are. He didn't even attack the human army until they entered his throne room. Lucifer burned down Emilia's village and killed her father. Rewatch the eps 1 opening. The Generals attacked the islands, not Maou.

Think about this: Who really tells you Maou is evil? Just the narrator, and it's pretty easy to assume that that was someone from the Church, just going by the tone of the dialogue. There is in fact, zero evidence that Maou actually was evil, so he's actually the most trustworthy about his own "evilness." Emelia is upset because his actions here are ruining her own determination that he was an evil force she was born to slay. He's not living up to what she was told by the Church to believe. His actions are backing up his own words that he simply never bothered to understand who was fighting against him.

Furthermore...not once have I mentioned anyone should stop watching this show, so I most certainly do not have a, "'then stop watching, idiot'-agenda". I very deliberately did not do so in the above post, though I may have been sorely tempted to do so when I wrote that post. I refrained. I wanted a different reason for why the others are disappointed in the show, rather than the same complaints week after week after week...which you have done once again. The same complaints week after week do not make a very entertaining discussion, so I made the conscious decision to put it another way. I've been trying to convince the dissenters that this show is as good as I think it is and to keep watching.

I'm just going to ignore your little, "I wish it was more like Gantz and Deathnote" fantasy. How boring life would be if all the stories were all the same.

And yes, it is a comedy, of the "fish out of water" variety. If you don't think it's funny, that's fine. That doesn't make it not a comedy. The suggestion that your clearly misguided reaction to it somehow proves that it isn't a comedy is nothing more than dross.

[MFauli]

Awesome, so your whole argument relies upon "he wasn´t really evil to begin with". That´s really just one very silm way of interpreting what happened in episode 4.

[Ryllharu]

That's because one of us was paying attention during the episode.

Hint: It wasn't you.

[MFauli]

That's because one of us was paying attention during the episode.

Hint: It wasn't you.

Seems we don´t share the same definition of "paying attention".

Hint: Try differentiating fact from wishful interpretation.

[shinta|hikari]

I think the title alone is enough indication that this is a comedy.

You can also google the genre if you still don't think so.

[Kraco]

We do know for a fact Maou intended to conquer all the islands and be the overlord of demons and humans alike. He said that himself. It's also fully his responsibility if his generals were performing atrocities when attacking the human islands, with ignorance or disinterest absolving nothing. So, he was evil. But then again, maybe he wanted to create one world where there were no demons and humans but only citizens of equal rights and responsibilities... I doubt he will ever get a second chance, so we will never know if he simply wanted to be evil once to give the future generations a better world.