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  1. #1
    The Fallen Abdula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofu #2 View Post
    Yea naruto took advantage of that against neji I believe

    I don't think it was ever explicitly stated the Sharingan can't distinguish clones, but there's no evidence that supports it can, nor can I see any reason it would.
    Though I don't remember it explicitly being stated, there is evidence enough to believe that the sharingan would be able to see through shadow clones. Though, this is an old argument and I don't really want to get into it, not in that regard at least but oh well. There are many reasons why people think it would be able to see through shadow clones.

    Let's just look at some of things the sharingan has been able to do so far, Sasuke for example. When he first met Naruto again after the time skip he was able to see into the Kyuubi's pocket dimension inside Naruto and forcibly suppress the Kyuubi's chakra because of his eyes. In his fight with Orochimaru he was again able to control Orochimaru's own little pocket dimension because of his eyes. There is his fight with Deidara where he was able to see through and counter almost every single one of Deidara's moves including seeing his bombs buried undeground by Tobi and his microscopic C4 level attacks not to mention this. Then there is Madara using his sharingan to subjugate the Kyuubi here and his words imply that any Uchiha with sufficient strength would be able to do the same. There is also Obito using the sharingan to literally rip the Kyuubi out of Kushina. In fact Itachi did tell Sasuke that simply awakening the MS would give any Uchiha the ability to completely control the Kyuubi, though at the cost of eventually going blind. Interesting that Obito doesn't seem to have that problem. Plus there is the fact that the sharingan can see chakra not to mention the constant boasts about the sharingan being able to see through everything, here for example. I mentioned in my first post in this thread Madara, Obito, Danzo and Orochimaru wanting Hashirama's cells. Well the other thing Danzo and Orochimaru wanted was sharingans.

    It just makes it hard to believe that such a powerful eye technique wouldn't be able to see through a B-ranked skill that most konoha ninjas seem to know that requires one simple seal, muchless MS or EMS. A point I should make, I remember someone pointing out a few years ago that it isn't the shadow clone technique that was forbidden but the multiple shadow clone technique which is what Naruto actually learned way back in chapter 1. Anyway the point is that shadow clones are not all that special and they aren't something that is unique to Naruto. His ability to use them as he does because of his immense chakra reserves, due mostly to being the host for the kyuubi, is though. So yeah there are plenty of reasons why it would be reasonable for someone to think that the sharingan would be able to see through shadow clones. The sharingan is extremely powerful for one thing and shadow clones just aren't on the same level as Hashirama's mokuton. We have seen so many people use mokuton at this point that I guess its understandable that most seem to have forgotten that it is a kekkei genkai unique to him and the only thing we have seen thus far that is anywhere near as overpowered as the sharingan is. The rinnegan doesn't count because it results from combining the Uchiha's and Senju's abilities.

    Honestly I think the one thing the sharingan wouldn't be able to see through is Mu's ability to split himself, since that isn't a clone so there would be nothing to see through and as is mentioned here no matter how fast it happens as long as it is within the sharingan's field of vision they would still see it. There are a few ways people have tried to defeat the sharingan, for one thing as Gai said the first thing is to never look at their eyes. Itachi was able to completely defeat both Deidara and Orochimaru simply because they made the mistake of looking at his eyes. As we have seen it was how easily Itachi was able to defeat Orochimaru and cut off his hand that caused him to leave Akatsuki in the first place and as Sasuke said Orochimaru only came after him because he could not handle Itachi and Sasuke was the only other Uchiha. Another tactic that has been mentioned was by Zabuza, who said the best way to defeat the sharingan was to obscure its field of vision as he did with his hidden mist technique and fight by using sound. Another tactic which was mentioned by Chiyo, is to simply never fight against the sharingan one on one. Simply have one person to distract or otherwise neutralize the person using the sharingan while someone else attacks them from behind. Yet another tactic that has been mentioned is to simply have a sharingan of your own. What seems to work best is to simply be strong enough to be able to completely overpower the sharingan user and everything they can throw at you. As we saw back during the chuunin exam when Sasuke fought Rock Lee and as Gai has mentioned it doesn't matter if the sharingan can see through all your moves, if the person using it can't keep up with your speed then you can beat them with just taijutsu. If your ninjutsu is simply more powerful than a sharingan users ninjutsu then you can defeat their ninjutsu, if you are strong enough or versatile enough to simply break out of their genjutsu or are simply immune to it then you can win. We've seen Sasuke get his ass handed to him enough times to prove that, most notably at the Kage summit and by Killer Bee. It also seems to be the case with Hashirama and Madara where regardless of Madara having sharingan, MS, EMS or the Kyuubi. Hashirama is simply stronger than he is. As Sasuke said the sharingan is just a tool and like any tool it is only as powerful as the person using it, same could be said for Naruto's shadow clones. Really it raises a good question. Do you think Madara with Hashirama's cells which give him the use of Mokuton and Rinnegan would be stronger than Hashirama if he had a sharingan, MS, EMS and Rinnegan?

    Anyway there has been a lot of inconsistencies with the sharingan and shadow clones and pretty much everything else in this manga but that is Naruto. Another thing to keep in mind is that we haven't seen that many sharingans, and as has been implied many times, other than the basic abilities the sharingan seems to bestow unique abilities upon some of its users. Sasuke, Itachi and Madara all seem to have the same abilities but we know form Itachi and Danzo that Shisui's sharingan and MS granted him different abilities and Obito's gave him and Kakashi different abilities as well. Then there is Izanagi and Izanami. So I just wouldn't underestimate the sharingan.
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Abdula View Post
    Though I don't remember it explicitly being stated, there is evidence enough to believe that the sharingan would be able to see through shadow clones. Though, this is an old argument and I don't really want to get into it, not in that regard at least but oh well. There are many reasons why people think it would be able to see through shadow clones.

    Let's just look at some of things the sharingan has been able to do so far, Sasuke for example. When he first met Naruto again after the time skip he was able to see into the Kyuubi's pocket dimension inside Naruto and forcibly suppress the Kyuubi's chakra because of his eyes. In his fight with Orochimaru he was again able to control Orochimaru's own little pocket dimension because of his eyes. There is his fight with Deidara where he was able to see through and counter almost every single one of Deidara's moves including seeing his bombs buried undeground by Tobi and his microscopic C4 level attacks not to mention this. Then there is Madara using his sharingan to subjugate the Kyuubi here and his words imply that any Uchiha with sufficient strength would be able to do the same. There is also Obito using the sharingan to literally rip the Kyuubi out of Kushina. In fact Itachi did tell Sasuke that simply awakening the MS would give any Uchiha the ability to completely control the Kyuubi, though at the cost of eventually going blind. Interesting that Obito doesn't seem to have that problem. Plus there is the fact that the sharingan can see chakra not to mention the constant boasts about the sharingan being able to see through everything, here for example. I mentioned in my first post in this thread Madara, Obito, Danzo and Orochimaru wanting Hashirama's cells. Well the other thing Danzo and Orochimaru wanted was sharingans.

    It just makes it hard to believe that such a powerful eye technique wouldn't be able to see through a B-ranked skill that most konoha ninjas seem to know that requires one simple seal, muchless MS or EMS. A point I should make, I remember someone pointing out a few years ago that it isn't the shadow clone technique that was forbidden but the multiple shadow clone technique which is what Naruto actually learned way back in chapter 1. Anyway the point is that shadow clones are not all that special and they aren't something that is unique to Naruto. His ability to use them as he does because of his immense chakra reserves, due mostly to being the host for the kyuubi, is though. So yeah there are plenty of reasons why it would be reasonable for someone to think that the sharingan would be able to see through shadow clones. The sharingan is extremely powerful for one thing and shadow clones just aren't on the same level as Hashirama's mokuton. We have seen so many people use mokuton at this point that I guess its understandable that most seem to have forgotten that it is a kekkei genkai unique to him and the only thing we have seen thus far that is anywhere near as overpowered as the sharingan is. The rinnegan doesn't count because it results from combining the Uchiha's and Senju's abilities.

    Honestly I think the one thing the sharingan wouldn't be able to see through is Mu's ability to split himself, since that isn't a clone so there would be nothing to see through and as is mentioned here no matter how fast it happens as long as it is within the sharingan's field of vision they would still see it. There are a few ways people have tried to defeat the sharingan, for one thing as Gai said the first thing is to never look at their eyes. Itachi was able to completely defeat both Deidara and Orochimaru simply because they made the mistake of looking at his eyes. As we have seen it was how easily Itachi was able to defeat Orochimaru and cut off his hand that caused him to leave Akatsuki in the first place and as Sasuke said Orochimaru only came after him because he could not handle Itachi and Sasuke was the only other Uchiha. Another tactic that has been mentioned was by Zabuza, who said the best way to defeat the sharingan was to obscure its field of vision as he did with his hidden mist technique and fight by using sound. Another tactic which was mentioned by Chiyo, is to simply never fight against the sharingan one on one. Simply have one person to distract or otherwise neutralize the person using the sharingan while someone else attacks them from behind. Yet another tactic that has been mentioned is to simply have a sharingan of your own. What seems to work best is to simply be strong enough to be able to completely overpower the sharingan user and everything they can throw at you. As we saw back during the chuunin exam when Sasuke fought Rock Lee and as Gai has mentioned it doesn't matter if the sharingan can see through all your moves, if the person using it can't keep up with your speed then you can beat them with just taijutsu. If your ninjutsu is simply more powerful than a sharingan users ninjutsu then you can defeat their ninjutsu, if you are strong enough or versatile enough to simply break out of their genjutsu or are simply immune to it then you can win. We've seen Sasuke get his ass handed to him enough times to prove that, most notably at the Kage summit and by Killer Bee. It also seems to be the case with Hashirama and Madara where regardless of Madara having sharingan, MS, EMS or the Kyuubi. Hashirama is simply stronger than he is. As Sasuke said the sharingan is just a tool and like any tool it is only as powerful as the person using it, same could be said for Naruto's shadow clones. Really it raises a good question. Do you think Madara with Hashirama's cells which give him the use of Mokuton and Rinnegan would be stronger than Hashirama if he had a sharingan, MS, EMS and Rinnegan?

    Anyway there has been a lot of inconsistencies with the sharingan and shadow clones and pretty much everything else in this manga but that is Naruto. Another thing to keep in mind is that we haven't seen that many sharingans, and as has been implied many times, other than the basic abilities the sharingan seems to bestow unique abilities upon some of its users. Sasuke, Itachi and Madara all seem to have the same abilities but we know form Itachi and Danzo that Shisui's sharingan and MS granted him different abilities and Obito's gave him and Kakashi different abilities as well. Then there is Izanagi and Izanami. So I just wouldn't underestimate the sharingan.
    2/3 of this post is just talking about how the sharingan is so awesome it should be able to do anything, 1/4 is talking about how to counter the sharingan?
    I mean, Madara/Hashirama should be able to create pocket dimensions and warp reality on a cosmic level right since they're so awesome as well right? Really the only 2 points you've made are that the sharingan can see movements no matter how fast, and the sharingan gives color to chakra.
    You might be able to make a case for this first one, say if Kage Bunshin "pulled" the body of the caster away to create the bunshins. The 2nd one goes back to how Kage Bunshin equally divides the chakra and wouldn't allow the sharingan to detect.

    When he first met Naruto again after the time skip he was able to see into the Kyuubi's pocket dimension inside Naruto and forcibly suppress the Kyuubi's chakra because of his eyes.
    Speaking of, why the fuck doesn't Obito/Madara just do this to Naruto right now?

  3. #3
    Banned darkshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofu #2 View Post
    Speaking of, why the fuck doesn't Obito/Madara just do this to Naruto right now?
    That was just some chakra leaking obviously, not uncaged and bonded with naruto kyuubi.
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