Attack on Titan: Shingeki no Kyojin

[MFauli]

While I still disagree about Eren being a bad guy, I agree that there has to be one more twist.

Although I'm not even talking about a twist relating to Ymir or the bigger story, but more to what's going to happen. This is my hope more than my confident prediction, but I'd LOVE to see how Armin and Co. reach Eren, start fighting him, and even get close to finishing him off - when Mikasa at long las realizes that she was never under Eren's control and that she actually loves him for realz. We'll get a hilarious scene similar to Annie when she was exposed and weirdly blushing and all, this time with Mikasa "blooming" and even visually return to her more feminine look pre-timeskip. And then she'll defend Eren with all her might, because love trumps all.

As for overarching stroy twists, I can see 3 scenarios:

1.) Considering time travel shenanigans were introduced already, Eren might make his conscious travel back to his younger self and take over. Thus allowing him to do-over EVERYTHING. Basically playing a video game with a guide next to you. :>

2.) Eren finds out the hard way that Ymir wasn't the only god parasite-carrier and the world turns into a total war battlefield between different god parasite-carriers.

3.) Some other character finds the god parasite-source and intentionally gets one to be able to fight Ymir head on.

Or maybe the heroes fight Eren and the End.

[Buffalobiian]

At first, I was afraid Armin's plan was to kill the titan and remove Connie's motive to feed Falco. I wouldn't count out the cruelty, but thankfully his self-sacrifice gambit got his point across instead (I forgot he was the colossal, lol).

Me too. "That's an interesting and ballsy way to get to her neck" I thought.

[DarthEnderX]

Her role to play is unclear, and her alliance uneasy, at best.

I assume her role is to turn into a giant lady and hit someone.

[MFauli]

I assume her role is to turn into a giant lady and hit someone.

Not joking or horny-posting: Watch Annie's role be having sex with the Attack titan. It has always been weird that there was a "female titan", like, how is that a special ability, lol?! Maybe Ymir created the female titan after herself, trying to establish a titan race of people. The goal of Ymir's could be to give birth to a race of pure titans that exist only as titans (with a full consciousness) as Eldians are all imperfect titans, sullied by the original king's blood.

The implications then would be that Eren truly becomes the big villain, because now he and Annie would be attempting to eradicate EVERYONE, non-Eldians and Eldians likewise, forsaking humans in favor of the future titan race.

[DarthEnderX]

Maybe Ymir created the female titan after herself, trying to establish a titan race of people.

Did she "create" any of them with intention?

They were created from eating her corpse. You think she specifically assigned them powers?

[MFauli]

Did she "create" any of them with intention?

They were created from eating her corpse. You think she specifically assigned them powers?

And yet there's only ONE titan who's specifically "female". That's just odd to me and remarkable. And if that titan actually is supposed to have a special abilty, being able to bear "children" would be that.

[Buffalobiian]

None of the titans have dicks.

[MFauli]

None of the titans have dicks.

Come on.

[MFauli]

episode 9:

I'm only 4 minutes into the episode, but I had to pause to write this: I REALLY think you're wrong here, Hanji, wtf! "I'm sure none of them would choose to save Eldians if it meant to fight the whole world". Yeah, I'm pretty sure there'd be A LOT of people who would choose to do exactly that, including commander Erwin. The scouts are the ones that put their lives on the line to protect Eldians from titan attacks, yet you think they'd betray their people just like that?

Hanji is completely fucked up. I know you guys agree with her, but it makes no sense that an in-universe character in her position would be SO willing to betray her own people. That's what she's doing, betray them. "Genocide is wrong!" she shouts when it is exactly what she wants to do - just instead against the world, she intends to commit genocide against Eldians.

These characters are way to altruistic right now and I don't like it nor buy it. It feels forced, like the author wants to push a certain message here. Just last episode, Eren's friends were in a state of "it's wrong, it's fucked up, but he's doing it for us, so it's also right. Wah, I don't know!" and that is an understandable state of mind: Confusion. Self-doubt. Doubt. And now they're sitting in a room and listening to Hanji's rambling about giving their life to stop Eren from saving Eldians and further to condemn all Eldians to die.

I'm gonna continue watching now, but damn, that makes me angry. Ugh.

Edit:

Finished the episode. Nothing changed. For a moment Jean was showing some reason, but then he ended up supporting the plan anyway.

It really feels like the plot is over-dictated by the author at this point, with characters making decisions that make no sense.

Also LOL @Annie, your dad is already dead, eat shit, bitch.

Only good thing this episode: Mikasa still plans to talk with Eren, not just kill him. I hope he can talk some reason into his friends. "Why should the bullied give up their lives? So that the bullies are rewarded for all the bad they've done?", something like this, hopefully.

[Buffalobiian]

The point of this episode was that these guys started killing each other without talking to each other.

The most impactful bit came from Magath. He started off the episode debating history and righteousness with Jean. I wouldn't say he has the moral high ground, but he does have some world history to base his actions off.

Fast forward to Gabi's confessing that the Paradise Island Devils were all scapegoats for the rest of the world's Eldians so they can act as Good Eldians and deflect all hate towards them. Magath realised that this is something of his doing until this point - If not personally then systemically.

I think where you're wrong MFauli, is that you think that the Scouts killing titans without guilt is the same as scouts killing humans without guilt.

Levi being Levi while missing his bits is quite funny.

The woman in Jean's dream had quite dark hair. On first take I thought he wanted Mikasa's babies.

[DarthEnderX]

Henge's stew?! THAT'S your lore secret of the week?!

I REALLY think you're wrong here, Hanji, wtf! "I'm sure none of them would choose to save Eldians if it meant to fight the whole world".

She's not talking about not fighting the whole world. She's talking about not MURDERING the whole world. Fighting implies only killing the people that fight back. Eren is going to kill EVERYONE. Even the other countries that hate Marley as much as him. Even his fellow Eldians on the mainland that have been living in concentration camps.

Henge is absolutely right. Nobody who's not a complete psychopath would support global genocide.

universe character in her position would be SO willing to betray her own people. That's what she's doing, betray them. "Genocide is wrong!" she shouts when it is exactly what she wants to do - just instead against the world, she intends to commit genocide against Eldians.

No, it isn't. Because that's predicated on the notion that one side or the other HAS to be genocided, and that there are no other possible conclusions. And only a total dipshit believes that.

It really feels like the plot is over-dictated by the author at this point, with characters making decisions that make no sense.

No, it just doesn't make sense to you. Because, as you constantly like to show us, you're pretty much morally bankrupt.

Only good thing this episode: Mikasa still plans to talk with Eren, not just kill him. I hope he can talk some reason into his friends. "Why should the bullied give up their lives? So that the bullies are rewarded for all the bad they've done?", something like this, hopefully.

Lol, if that's what you're hoping for, you might as well just stop watching.

[MFauli]

Expected reply, Darth, but let me ask you this: If instead of killing the rest of the world (which you oppose so much as "wrong"), Eren had the ability to reverse the anti-Eldian plan (making it so that all non-Eldians can no longer procreate), would you be okay with that? You seem to make a difference between a "killing-genocide" and a "no more procreation-genocide". Murdering people is bad, but slowly having them go extinct is okay? Would it be okay then in reverse? That's what I'm very curious to hear from you.

For the record, I think your morality is quite broken, too.

The woman in Jean's dream had quite dark hair. On first take I thought he wanted Mikasa's babies.

I mean, who doesn't? ;>

[Buffalobiian]

Slowly having a race die out is okay.

[shinta|hikari]

Not okay. Still genocide.
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[DarthEnderX]

You seem to make a difference between a "killing-genocide" and a "no more procreation-genocide". Murdering people is bad, but slowly having them go extinct is okay?

Not even a little. Global genocide is like a 12-out-of-10 on the villainy scale. Global sterilization is like an 11. It's just slow genocide.

But, again, not the only option available to him. Eren has ALL of the power atm. His avenues for resolving this conflict are practically limitless.

[shinta|hikari]

@Darth - Just out of curiosity, if we use a more typical rating system of 1 to 10 with 10 being the maximum and put global genocide at 10, that would mean global sterilization is at 9 for you. What would be a 7 and 8 for you?

[DarthEnderX]

What would be a 7 and 8 for you?

I dunno...like, a less cartoonish number of murders?

It's kinda why I made it a 12. Cause, realistically, murder is a 10. So global genocide is just, like, a couple billion 10s.

[MFauli]

Not even a little. Global genocide is like a 12-out-of-10 on the villainy scale. Global sterilization is like an 11. It's just slow genocide.

But, again, not the only option available to him. Eren has ALL of the power atm. His avenues for resolving this conflict are practically limitless.

You keep saying this, so I'll ask you to be concrete here:

What are these "limitless avenues"/alternatives that Eren has access to that would not result in anybody's genocide AND would not be a huge gamble risking Eldians' lives? The latter is an important factor, because any failed alternative attempt to resolve things would result in Eldians' total annihilation, while the rest of the world, no matter what happens, would always be able to heal and continue.

I don't see all these countless obvious alternatives, so please, go full-fanfic for me.

[neflight86]

Add "campfire discussion" to scenes AoT has elevated to a new height within Anime.

Glad to see Jean's character growth from season 1 come back and support him when presented with an easy-way-out on a silver platter. It still made sense for him to lose it at Reiner now that all is known- if only to protect Annie.

Henge's stew?! THAT'S your lore secret of the week?!

Don't knock it till you try it, I guess. She even asked Jean "What about your seconds?" in the most awkward time possible, so you know its gotta be good!

episode 9:

I'm only 4 minutes into the episode, but I had to pause to write this: I REALLY think you're wrong here, Hanji, wtf! "I'm sure none of them would choose to save Eldians if it meant to fight the whole world". Yeah, I'm pretty sure there'd be A LOT of people who would choose to do exactly that, including commander Erwin. The scouts are the ones that put their lives on the line to protect Eldians from titan attacks, yet you think they'd betray their people just like that?

Most of them wanted to protect humanity in ignorance of what the scope of humanity was. That makes it more tragic. The common enemy (the Titans) unified the Paradise islanders and prevented the (messy) sustainment of geopolitical factions wherein the potential for war comes from in the first place. Had they known of the outside world, opinions (among the scouts) would have been divided at worst, but mostly against this genocide as they were decent people who value human life even if it is from another race, whatever that is.

These characters are way to altruistic right now and I don't like it nor buy it. It feels forced, like the author wants to push a certain message here. Just last episode, Eren's friends were in a state of "it's wrong, it's fucked up, but he's doing it for us, so it's also right. Wah, I don't know!" and that is an understandable state of mind: Confusion. Self-doubt. Doubt. And now they're sitting in a room and listening to Hanji's rambling about giving their life to stop Eren from saving Eldians and further to condemn all Eldians to die.

...

It really feels like the plot is over-dictated by the author at this point, with characters making decisions that make no sense.

...did ...did you just suggest the author wrote too much of the story? I'm joking; your wording gave me a chuckle. I think your real issue is that you think there is no room for peace or negotiation since things have gone this far.

They touched on that this episode when Yelena recounted the atrocities committed by everyone sitting around that fire, and how everyone came to terms with just how grey this entire conflict is. That they are willing to entertain talk and negotiation, even with those that hate them (like the Marleans at the campsite) is a result of the tragedies they have all suffered breeding empathy and at least some emotional maturity. The Owl said as much back in season three when he told Grisha that unless he loved someone within the walls that we would 'keep repeating the same mistakes again and again'. Vengeance begets vengeance. Like the deaths of Gabi's friends and then Sasha, you can trace it all back to acts of revenge stoking the flames of hate. It's a recurring theme of the show.

I think you yearn for black and white delineation of justification. That's not here. Attack on Titan's story outgrew that seasons ago.

The most impactful bit came from Magath. He started off the episode debating history and righteousness with Jean. I wouldn't say he has the moral high ground, but he does have some world history to base his actions off.

Fast forward to Gabi's confessing that the Paradise Island Devils were all scapegoats for the rest of the world's Eldians so they can act as Good Eldians and deflect all hate towards them. Magath realised that this is something of his doing until this point - If not personally then systemically.

That was a great scene and a fine cap-off to his spat with Jean earlier.

Its been foreshadowed for a while now, but Flock finally gets to be a mini-boss. I expect him to die next episode, and maybe a little flashback to flesh him out before (or during) him getting... fleshed out... He's been practically one note this whole season, so I'd like to see what makes the chief Jagerist tick.

[DarthEnderX]

What are these "limitless avenues"/alternatives that Eren has access to that would not result in anybody's genocide AND would not be a huge gamble risking Eldians' lives? The latter is an important factor, because any failed alternative attempt to resolve things would result in Eldians' total annihilation

That's fucking stupid, and is basically just an excuse to remove ALL other options from the table.

"Unless this is 100% guaranteed to work, you HAVE to murder EVERYONE else instead." That's a completely unreasonable and nonsensical restriction to put into place, and I'm not even going to entertain listing hypotheticals with that kind of bullshit handcuffing in place.


Basically, if it had been up to you, we would ALL be fucking dead from nuclear war by now. Because your entire justification is "Well, if there's even the slightest chance they might annihilate us, then it's too dangerous NOT to annihilate them! Don't explore any other options. The risk it too high."

...did ...did you just suggest the author wrote too much of the story? I'm joking; your wording gave me a chuckle. I think your real issue is that you think there is no room for peace or negotiation since things have gone this far.

I think my biggest problem with the writing was the way Willy Tibur was able to unite the entire rest of the world against the Eldians with a single speech. Even though Marley is the ones that had been conquering them and dropping titans on all of them for centuries. Even though that was all Marley's doing, Tibur was somehow able to convince them that, "no, the people we keep imprisoned and basically use as missiles against you are the problem, and you should all help us to go their island and get us even MORE of the power we've been using against all of you".

And they all just agreed to that.

Like, realistically, Eren should just be able to smash Marley's military and government. Free his fellow Eldians, and then begin negotiations with the other countries, having just freed them all from Marley's oppression. Hell, the Japanese-ish country was ALREADY willing to ally with them.

But no. Everyone has to die instead. Every innocent man, woman and child on the planet that's not on the island with him. Fucking stupid.