Attack on Titan: Shingeki no Kyojin

[kmkze04]

Could the difference between royal and non-royal Eldians be that royals are direct descendants of Ymirs, while non-royals are Eldians who ate Ymirs flesh?

I can't think of any other meaningful difference. Like, maybe the king had children with various women, and he ordered all of them to eat Ymir's corpse, whether they were her own offspring or not.

From the looks of the family images only the daughters ate the flesh and the translation implies the continued... incestual cannibalism? The issue there is that those are daughters so barring some kind of Titan interbreeding, it couldn't exactly be kept in the family.
Unless maybe it's implying that someone would need to have the blood of all three daughters to be a "Royal" and the rest are branch family members. So Royal would only reappear a number of generations later. Or it could simply be you need to have a certain purity of blood and not have gone through too many outsiders.
Or maybe there's just an essence of Ymir that travels down one path, in which case her appearance and the "seed" situation basically mirroring Historia's has giant significance. Ymir herself may have just reappeared and is being given a chance to go a different way.

[MFauli]

So basically Historia has a real great broth-I mean, father.


;>

[neflight86]

Once again, Ishiyama has defied my expectation and offered up another genuinely interesting character flashback that recontextualizes all I think I know.

At first, I was baffled and disappointed that Ymir didn't simply kill all of her captors the instant she gained the titan powers- why wouldn't she? Oh well, I guess the storytelling can't be air tight all the time... But after a few days of reflection, I realized that it was in line with her character. A sad young girl who's only ever known enslavement and obedience, her natural inclination is to seek direction. After all, she was willing to take the blame for the missing pig in the first place simply because she had no gumption to fight back, or pity for her fellow slaves, or any number of other hesitations that herded her wounded into that tree.

As a real world anecdote, circus elephants are tied to stakes by a rope from a young age, where they learn that they cannot get free from it. In reality, a fully grown elephant could almost accidentally break that same rope with their girth alone, but they never try because the 'reality' of resistance's futility has been engrained upon them by the time they have the power to 'rebel'. Same principal at work here, but it took a much better storyteller than I to present it buried within an origin flashback.

And direction she got. At least some truth to both permutations of the story, and I expect there's still more to come. From these events, I expect that the royal blood line, specifically, are those who ate of Ymir's flesh, while the remaining offspring make up regular Eldians.

If Frits'z command was taken literally by Ymir, who had the power to change Eldian physiology when she possessed the founding titan, that would explain why titans eat people; they were told to eat of Ymir's flesh, and her descendant's flesh. They just happen to not be smart enough to tell them apart from other people.

If Angry Emo was a pokemon, Ayran would be its final evolution.

[Buffalobiian]

Episode 81

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So Connie took Falco away... and will meet Levi along the way and choose to save him instead? That sounds like how it'd play out. From a story POV I can't see them "wasting" the Jaw titan on Connie's mum. It's also the perfect titan for Levi to be honest.

[MFauli]

Man, FUCK Annie :/ I really don't want a happy end for her nor ruining Eren's plans. Reminder that she murdered many good people. Trash bitch. Pls let her find a miserable end.

Connie running off with Falco is annoying. What's he thinking? Even if he succeeds, the whole world will be after his mother then. And what's he gonna tell her, "Mom, I sacrificed this little boy to save you. Btw. dad and everyone else is dead." I fully empathize with Connie in that the thought should cross his mind. But to actually do it, is ... ugh. Impulse control, Connie, impulse control!

Now, as for Eren's plan ... can we talk about how flawed it actually is? I see two major issue with it:

1.) Way too few of those big titans to destroy the whole planet in a reasonable time. These titans made the walls of some small territory. Every step forward widens the gap between the next titan. Eventually, you won't be able to see the next titan from the one you're standing next to.. Basically, the planet is vast. Now, if Eren just wants to have a world where the surviving non-Eldians are in permanent terror because they never know when one of the titans crosses their paths, that's an option I guess.

2.) If I were one of the leaders of any of the countries in the world and word got around that gian titans are unstoppably destroying everything ... I'd send my entire airship fleet towards Paradis. If not to save the world, just to pull them to hell with everyone else. What is Eren's plan against such a counterattack? If a massive airship fleet comes bombing Paradis, nothing can save his precious Eldians.

Oh well. We'll see. One thing I hope to see is Mikasa warming up to Eren again. They did a little of that with Jean telling them how Eren did everything for their sake. And that's true. Really, Zeke's plan to castrate an entire ethnicity just to give peace to a lot of assholes' minds ... how is that just? They could have taken precautions. They could have segregated all Eldians to Paradis and left them alone there where no titans can harm anyone in the world. And their technology was already letting them keep titans in check, surely with more technological progress, titans would lose all fear at all. So many alternatives. What Eren is doing is simply what happens when the Jews suddelny gain the power to fight back the nazis. When the Uighurs gain the power to fight back China. It is what happens when the oppressed minority suddenly obtains a power to turn the tables. And you cannot blame, you simply cannot.

[Buffalobiian]

1.) Way too few of those big titans to destroy the whole planet in a reasonable time. These titans made the walls of some small territory. Every step forward widens the gap between the next titan. Eventually, you won't be able to see the next titan from the one you're standing next to.. Basically, the planet is vast. Now, if Eren just wants to have a world where the surviving non-Eldians are in permanent terror because they never know when one of the titans crosses their paths, that's an option I guess.

It's not "divide and conquer", it's a stampede. Like a locust swarm.

2.) If I were one of the leaders of any of the countries in the world and word got around that gian titans are unstoppably destroying everything ... I'd send my entire airship fleet towards Paradis. If not to save the world, just to pull them to hell with everyone else. What is Eren's plan against such a counterattack? If a massive airship fleet comes bombing Paradis, nothing can save his precious Eldians.

The island still has soldiers. If you send troops to the enemy you need a supply line. As for saving Eldians, it's called bunkers.

As far as Eren is concerned, the world sending troops to his hometown doesn't change anything. The world wants Paradise Island dead anyway. He's going on a genocide mission to fuck them up. It the world nukes his home, that's an outcome that was going to happen if he turtled up anyway. The world is advancing on anti-titan weaponry as time goes by. The only defense is offense. So no, the nations launching attacks on Paradise Island in an "attack of mutual destruction" changes nothing.

Oh well. We'll see. One thing I hope to see is Mikasa warming up to Eren again. They did a little of that with Jean telling them how Eren did everything for their sake. And that's true. Really, Zeke's plan to castrate an entire ethnicity just to give peace to a lot of assholes' minds ... how is that just? They could have taken precautions. They could have segregated all Eldians to Paradis and left them alone there where no titans can harm anyone in the world. And their technology was already letting them keep titans in check, surely with more technological progress, titans would lose all fear at all. So many alternatives. What Eren is doing is simply what happens when the Jews suddelny gain the power to fight back the nazis. When the Uighurs gain the power to fight back China. It is what happens when the oppressed minority suddenly obtains a power to turn the tables. And you cannot blame, you simply cannot.

There is no blame. If the goal is to save Paradise Island, this is the way.

Zeke's castration plan isn't bad really. It's just about choosing which side wins. If you want Eldians to win then you kill everyone else. If you want everyone else to win then you kill Eldians. Zeke's castration plan is the most peaceful way to achieve the latter. Eren's massacre is the only way to achieve the former.

[DarthEnderX]

I feel like it sucks Eren doesn't have more control. Why CAN'T he just cure the Eldians of their titanism? And it's weird he can't make the titans spare the Eldian ghetto.

I feel like the only hope for a "happy" resolution, is if the tree entity is somehow killed or returned, and that just ends all titan power.

And then, with the threat of the titans gone, the rest of the world just...burns Marley to the ground.

[Buffalobiian]

I feel like it sucks Eren doesn't have more control. Why CAN'T he just cure the Eldians of their titanism?

He might not be able to undo the fundamental thing about Eldians.

And even if he could, the world may not believe him, or have confidence in him keeping his word.

"The only good Eldian is a dead Eldian." Titan fear runs deep.

[MFauli]

Killing the god parasite wouldn't really help, because you don't know how many more exist. For all we know, the world could be filled with those, just waiting to make contact.

[neflight86]

RIP Pixis. Tha Gabby action was fun, as was the finality of dealing with plain titans. They can be killed en mass now.

Connie taking Falco seems more like an 'end of the world' thing. He sees that things have become apocolyptic and is essentially 'abandoning' his post to follow his desire since everything is going to end soon, anyway.

So Connie took Falco away... and will meet Levi along the way and choose to save him instead? That sounds like how it'd play out. From a story POV I can't see them "wasting" the Jaw titan on Connie's mum. It's also the perfect titan for Levi to be honest.

This may come to pass, but I really think that the author might have bigger plans for Falco than to resurrect Levi- he is the anti-Aran of this story, in my eyes: someone who has gone through the same or worse but maintains their 'humanity' and isn't consumed by hatred.

Man, FUCK Annie :/ I really don't want a happy end for her nor ruining Eren's plans. Reminder that she murdered many good people. Trash bitch. Pls let her find a miserable end.

Way back when she was a threat, she spared Armin twice because he didn't seem to be a hinderance to her mission. She was following orders to reclaim the founding titan after deep undercover. Like Reiner said "we were just kids; we didn't know anything". She wielded enormous power to accomplish a goal during war time (to her). Is that murder, if those kills were to further her mission that her family's well being was riding on? She is responsible for those deaths, for sure, but were they premeditated and driven by hate? There is room for doubt.

1.) Way too few of those big titans to destroy the whole planet in a reasonable time. These titans made the walls of some small territory. Every step forward widens the gap between the next titan. Eventually, you won't be able to see the next titan from the one you're standing next to.. Basically, the planet is vast.

What is a reasonable time for genocide? If the tians seek out humans with infrared vision, like Rod Reiss did in season 3, they can hun them down effectively enough. Or, instead of walking away in circular pattern, they could form roving shoulder to shoulder columns like wiper blades and cover the surfaced area fairly efficiently.

It is what happens when the oppressed minority suddenly obtains a power to turn the tables. And you cannot blame, you simply cannot.

Then you agree that you/we cannot blame Marley for oppressing them previously? Am I understanding that right?

Zeke's castration plan isn't bad really. It's just about choosing which side wins. If you want Eldians to win then you kill everyone else. If you want everyone else to win then you kill Eldians. Zeke's castration plan is the most peaceful way to achieve the latter. Eren's massacre is the only way to achieve the former.

Well said.

I feel like it sucks Eren doesn't have more control. Why CAN'T he just cure the Eldians of their titanism? And it's weird he can't make the titans spare the Eldian ghetto.

My guess is that you can only exhert control over the titans made from your essense/dna/whatever. The mindless titans here were made from Zeke's spinal fluid wine, so I suspect only he can direct them, and he's nowhere to be seen right now. As for reverting their titan form, I think that may be another tragic reveal down the road; that there was a way to turn them back all this time.

Killing the god parasite wouldn't really help, because you don't know how many more exist. For all we know, the world could be filled with those, just waiting to make contact.

Now there's a spooky thought!

[kmkze04]

I'm very curious with Annie because not sure if she was conscious or completely suspended in her hardening shell. While everyone else kind of matured, progressed, developed their own self-awareness, etc., she could be coming back out the very same person that went in, skipping through time. Her motives and drives were never really established, nor was where she stands in that gray area between Marley and Paradis. Just like Attack and Zeke had hidden powers, she might end up having one. All that adds up to a huge wild card coming into play and a potential deus ex machina.

Or we could go all Ronin Warriors and have the remaining Titans decide to combine into some uber 6-Titan to face down Eren's 3.

And 10 bucks that's Eren's baby in Historia, that's who he's really trampling the world for. Her kind of spaced out look feels like trauma. Either she knew his plan but her nature opposes it, but she couldn't find a reason to sway Eren away from it. All it would take would be her speaking up in that case to get him to stop. Or she couldn't believe he'd sacrifice her either to get Zeke to fall into his trap and might be wanting to put an end to a rabid animal.

Lots of fun possibilities, really can't wait to see it unfold.

[MFauli]

I'm very curious with Annie because not sure if she was conscious or completely suspended in her hardening shell. While everyone else kind of matured, progressed, developed their own self-awareness, etc., she could be coming back out the very same person that went in, skipping through time. Her motives and drives were never really established, nor was where she stands in that gray area between Marley and Paradis. Just like Attack and Zeke had hidden powers, she might end up having one. All that adds up to a huge wild card coming into play and a potential deus ex machina.

Or we could go all Ronin Warriors and have the remaining Titans decide to combine into some uber 6-Titan to face down Eren's 3.

And 10 bucks that's Eren's baby in Historia, that's who he's really trampling the world for. Her kind of spaced out look feels like trauma. Either she knew his plan but her nature opposes it, but she couldn't find a reason to sway Eren away from it. All it would take would be her speaking up in that case to get him to stop. Or she couldn't believe he'd sacrifice her either to get Zeke to fall into his trap and might be wanting to put an end to a rabid animal.

Lots of fun possibilities, really can't wait to see it unfold.

Eren impregnated Historia, WAT

[neflight86]

I'm doubtful because any... contact... between them would have given Ayerin the coordinate power access and this plan would likely have happened sooner.

[Buffalobiian]

I had previously considered Historia x Eren, but then discarded the idea for some reasons:

1) The whole Contact thing. The story wouldn't make that much sense if Eren had that much exposure to Ymir's World. Eren also explicitly said he wanted to keep Historia out of this and chose not to reveal this Royal connection thing.

2) While there's merit to passing on Royal blood, there's no merit in having Eren pass on his seed specifically.

3) On an emotional level, Eren's never loved Historia so that doesn't check out either.



The idea was fascinating because it put meaning behind Historia being randomly pregnant and taken out of the picture, but the reasons I was making up for it didn't seem to work. It's possible for it to be true, but I can't actually figure out a rational reason why it should have happened.

[DarthEnderX]

Killing the god parasite wouldn't really help, because you don't know how many more exist. For all we know, the world could be filled with those, just waiting to make contact.

So? They've found one in the last several thousand years. If it would solve the current problem, it's not worth doing cause maybe the problem could come back in a few millennia?

"There's no point curing this disease, cause there's probably just gonna be another disease someday!" is a really weird attitude.

My guess is that you can only exhert control over the titans made from your essense/dna/whatever. The mindless titans here were made from Zeke's spinal fluid wine, so I suspect only he can direct them, and he's nowhere to be seen right now.

But Eren is directing the wall titans. And he didn't make those.

[MFauli]

"There's no point curing this disease, cause there's probably just gonna be another disease someday!" is a really weird attitude.

Change "some day" to "any moment" and you'll understand.

[Buffalobiian]

But Eren is directing the wall titans. And he didn't make those.

The Founding Titan made those directly, and Eren is now controlling the Founding Titan, so that part checks out.

As for Zeke's titans that he turned due to his Royal Blood connection, who knows. As previously mentioned, the uniqueness of Royal Blood isn't clear cut.

[MFauli]

We don't even know if Eren's mind has the capacity to see what's going on in the real world anymore. He's within another dimension where just gave orders to the wall titans, and he himself turned into some creepy uber-titan.

[MFauli]

episode 82:

Can't say I like the current development. I don't like Annie, I don't like Gabi, I don't like the carrier titan, I don't like Levi. And all of them are being built up to play some big role in the coming episodes :/

If I got one wish, it'd be this: Have Mikasa realize that she never was under control and that she truly loves Eren. And then help him, no matter the circumstnaces. Be Eren's Eva Braun if need comes to be ;>

Btw. were the wall titans people, too, or did Ymir build them from nothing? I'm not sure I saw that.

[Buffalobiian]

Can't say I like the current development. I don't like Annie, I don't like Gabi, I don't like the carrier titan, I don't like Levi. And all of them are being built up to play some big role in the coming episodes :/

I like Annie. Gabi's now more likable than ever and she's had some good character development. I like Pieck. I like Levi. So is well.

The pace has slowed down and they're being all introspective, which makes me suggest that this series isn't going to finish soon like I thought it was going to. The aftermath looks like it'll take a while to resolve.

I think all titans were people. That has never been suggested otherwise. The wall titans are all just colossals in a way.