Btooom!

[MFauli]

You´re being too harsh on this show.

You´re working under the assumption of "virtual world = real life". Sakamoto is simply showing to us how wrong that is. Yes, you have these other characters already mercilessly fighting each other to death, but if I may make an assumption myself: As someone who´s used to a gaming environment to the extent of his, the notion of doing the same in real life is MORE unreal than to a person that never or only casually played the game.

Imagine you´re an experienced Team Fortress 2-player. Suddenly, you´re on an island and someone told you "kill each other to win!". What to you do? I hope I can speak for all of us when I reply that question with "Are you friggin kidding?!"
We´d be quick to draw the conclusion that playing TF2 irl would be a VERY bad idea.
Now, what would a less experienced TF2-player or a complete newbie think? Well, at least I´d guess he/she would be less thoughtful about possible consequences and, without deeper knowledge about the circumstances, be scared enough to just pull the trigger on anything that moves.

To make it short: Sakamoto is in a stage of denial, disbelief and confusion. Most of his "enemies" are not, because they can´t make the clear cut between game and reality as Sakamoto is capable of, strange as it may sound.

[Ryllharu]

To make it short: Sakamoto is in a stage of denial, disbelief and confusion. Most of his "enemies" are not, because they can´t make the clear cut between game and reality as Sakamoto is capable of, strange as it may sound.

That's what makes it so jarring.

I had thought up until this episode that it was only people who played BTOOOM who were here. Instead it appears that the opposite is true, the only people who are here are people who someone filled out a "make them vanish" form. At best, there is a minority of people who have ever played the game, and that's only by coincidence because it is so popular a game (Sakamoto, Himiko, the guy who is running it, the now-dead fat guy, and this new kid apparently). Most of the people in the plane were businessmen and women, club-goers, outcasts, and outright scum. People anyone could randomly have a grudge against.

The heavy hitters in the game, or regular devotees even like Himiko are the ones who should have the least problem adapting to this strategy and warfare.

Sakamoto most of all, since all he does is play the game, and will only accept a job if it is at the company that makes that game. In the real world, he was easily the most delusional. Even the gross fat dude understood the reality of his position in life. Sakamoto should be one of the smartest at the actual warfare strategy, and so far he's been one of the dumbest. The first episode was excusable, now that he understands precisely the situation he is in, he should be one of the best. He's not, and that is what's wrong with the story so far. The denial stage ended the moment he started throwing bombs back in episode 1.

The only saving grace is that Sakamoto realized that he knows absolutely nothing about how to deal with people in terms of strategy and gaining an edge on them with words and indirect actions (i.e. not just blowing them up). At first, he clearly thought that Taira (the old man) was going to be a burden and the most he would get out of their partnership was obtain access to another type of bomb. Taira knows better, is a smart guy, and I wouldn't at all be surprised that when they come to getting that 7th gem, Taira is going to be the one sneaking a bomb into Sakamoto's pockets while he is off watch asleep.

[MFauli]

Sakamoto should be one of the smartest at the actual warfare strategy, and so far he's been one of the dumbest.

He most likely is. In-game.

As I tried to elaborate, Sakamoto is the one to best make the distinction between video game and reality. For all (most) of the other people, the situation they´re in is just something that got to them and now they´re using whatever they can to survive/win. They don´t really realize what´s going on. Not so Sakamoto. He *knows* that this is the doing of the company behind BTOOOM. And he knows that this game is simply BTOOOM put in the real world.
For Sakamoto, the best Japanese BTOOOM-player, it is obvious how wrong it´d be to use the kind of actions he´s used to in-game in real-life. Blowing up a polygonal character is on whole other level than doing the same to a real human being. But the other participants don´t even realize that. They don´t know BTOOOM. They have no preconceptions about what it is they´re actually doing - which is abusing the rules of a fun virtual game.

That´s how I see it, at least.

[Buffalobiian]

Imagine you´re an experienced Team Fortress 2-player. Suddenly, you´re on an island and someone told you "kill each other to win!". What to you do? I hope I can speak for all of us when I reply that question with "Are you friggin kidding?!"
We´d be quick to draw the conclusion that playing TF2 irl would be a VERY bad idea.

There's a difference between "thinking something is a bad idea" and realising that "someone's put you into a bad idea - now you've got to survive it".

Anybody would go "it's a bad idea" if they were asked to play counter-strike in real life and say "are you frigg'n kidding me". All it takes is for one guy to die to realise the answer to that question is "No. I'm not kidding". (Sakamoto is an exception here.. apparently killing someone while almost getting killed is not enough).

After that realisation, the noobs would be the ones rushing (gotta get to B, gotta get to B!).. while the veterans should be the ones expecting some sort of ambush at the bomb-site by CTs.

Sakamoto is slow. He's playing like a noob. In fact, he's so slow that it saved his fucking ass this week, to my frustration.


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I can't say that Sakamoto was in denial this episode. He's clearly accepted the entire Btooom premises. He was just too stupid to think that no-one would camp the goods.

[shinta|hikari]

Sakamoto is good at the game, but he is pretty dull at other things. This does not mean he is dumb in general, just that he does not have the experience, or even intention to trick and manipulate people outside the rules of the game. He is a social outcast after all.

Dropping food supplies probably simply never happened in Btooom! so he never even thought about the possibility of people setting traps for it.

He realized that there are people who can kill once he did it himself. What he did not realize is how easily everyone can do it. He is probably expecting that most of the players are like him and the old man who do not want to kill as much as possible. I guess their reality is not as kind.

[Buffalobiian]

HorribleSubs - Episode 04



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Bah! So to finally get some action we need some excuse of an alternate-self to take all the sins for him while the real guy remains pure.

Well it's better than him pussying out 100% and having some retarded player let him win, so I'll take what I can get.

Too bad the kid lived so Sakamoto won't progress from this experience, but the kid also sounds like a good enough ally to have around next time so I don't feel too bad about it.

And Taira you sneaky dog.. you'd make a nice final-ish backstabbing boss.

[David75]

Inaban, leave that island immediately!

Sorry, had to yell that

So we finally get to action and a more adult setting.
Fine, that was a much better ep. Violence at nice doses, not nauseating and some action.
Was a bit disapointed with the radar cheat though, even if I saw it coming.

[Ryllharu]

Was super disappointed by the temporary amnesia bullshit. It's kill or be killed. Sooner or later they're going to have to stop pretending that they can avoid killing, because all the easy people will have been killed off by the main power players.

Taira and Himeko are the main reason I'm still watching.

[Archangel]

You mean Himiko, aka roundface.

I dunno... i feel like it would be better if the MC cut the bulshit but i get a feeling that even then this wouldn't get past "sort of good". I don't find the fighting system nor the characters particularly interesting. They're all either lawful good or chaotic evil, this makes their actions and outcome too predictable.

[David75]

I guess at some point the MC being so good at the game will eventually try to rule the island into no kill zone... or at least try to.

He'll do that by at most injuring the more violent guys, but everytime stealing/destroying their bombs.

Of course, game masters will reduce the food deliveries, to create food fights, and probably send new bombs...

So yes, it's quite predictable.

[Ryllharu]

He'll do that by at most injuring the more violent guys, but everytime stealing/destroying their bombs.

I wouldn't worry too much about stealing bombs from others reducing the death toll. The grizzled guy Himiko started with had no problem at all. She's either carrying his bombs now, or already lost them along the way, I don't remember which and it doesn't even matter.

He's just as happy to kill people with his huge knife, and probably better with it than he would be with bombs.

[Buffalobiian]

HorribleSubs - Episode 05

[David75]

48 hours in a damp hot environment and the girl still smells good?
Maybe she got some body care products (think I remember something like that) and she washed herself...
But she still has dirty clothes. So I guess part of her smell would turn males on, and the other part would put the social male off. Even more so the mmorpg secluded geek living in a modern bubble with almost no sense of smell.

Regarding "players" with been shown only people that were chosen to die or dissapear by people knowing them.
I wonder if besides the guy in the video telling them about rules, there are other kinds of players.
After all, the guy with the knife seems to be quite proficient at killing people, or maybe he was a hunter and just adapted to killing human preys?
I was just wondering if we'll get to see people that actually decided to come into the game, just because it's great to be in a real killing environment. Having to hunt human, and be hunted.
Next, shouldn't we see cheaters? I mean professional killers that are helped by the organization, by getting unlimited weapons/food/health care supplies? Maybe even get comfortable places to eat and sleep? And then just get there to spice things up?

[Buffalobiian]

Maybe she got some body care products (think I remember something like that) and she washed herself...

They say when you're hungry, anything tastes good.

I guess that could go for smell and.... sunscreen?

I'm open to the idea that there might be volunteers there who just want to be in the game for the fun, but I don't think they'll be advantageous in any way. The organisers of this tournament must have wanted them to play Btooom in real life since they went to the trouble of emulating the entire thing instead of giving them all handguns and knives. Following that logic, it makes sense for them to want to see a fair game to completion as that's also what Btooom is (as far as we know).

[Yukimura]

I don't think it's a complete negative that the main guy hasn't shed off the trappings of civilization and started killing for his survival without any remorse or reluctance too quickly. A well-adjusted member of a modern society SHOULD find it hard to casually commit murder, even to save themselves from harm, especially from non-immediate harm. The point of civilization is to tamp down the sort of immediate, overwhelming response and survival first everything else second aspects of our instincts while promoting far thinking and cooperative instincts instead. People who can easily shed civilizations trappings and go their own way, especially to the point of killing others are typically considered insane and/or tragically damaged. See: the kid's dad, the bandanna knife guy, the kid and round face girl, maybe.

The main character is apparently sane and thus far he's not been so damaged by circumstances that I feel like he should be eager to throw his civility completely out the window. I enjoy the idea that he is a civil person with the skills to do rather well for himself in the uncivil situation he finds himself in struggling to resist the urge to give up on civility.

He has probably always divorced the applicability of skills necessary to win at BTOOM from reality because at some level he accepts civilization/society as a part of his core identity and society deems killing as wrong and abhorrent. While he has suffered a couple near death experiences on the island they haven't been enough to counter the lifetime of willingly being a member, albeit a reclusive one, of society. While I find it less entertaining in some ways that he's not a cold, ruthless killer, I am not discouraged by the idea that he is still fighting to retain his personal identity, even if it's as a boring member of a civilized society, in the midst of many other people who have either gone cold and ruthless due to the situation or were always waiting for a chance to shed some blood.

This is especially true given the fact that the main character KNOWS he's been manipulated into this position by an outside agent. If he were to lie down and accept that the game creators scenario absolves him of his need to be civil it would 1) imply that he never actually bought into society but was just never given sufficient chance/excuse to do whatever he wanted and 2) imply that he let the game creator beat him by making him march to his tune. The second reason seems like it would be the most distressing to the main character as he does seem to have a highly competitive side. If he internalizes the situation as him vs the game creator and the twisted scenario he's created then his resistance to playing the game the way the creator wants takes on a more heroic and defiant quality than if he quickly and willingly accepts that he has to become a ruthless killer because that's the hand he's been dealt and he gives up on his personal values.

TL;DR - Main guy is cast as the only sane man in an insane situation. I like and can respect that he's trying to resist the temptation to throw away his civility and become a killer just because he could.

[Archangel]

48 hours in a damp hot environment and the girl still smells good?
Maybe she got some body care products (think I remember something like that) and she washed herself...
But she still has dirty clothes. So I guess part of her smell would turn males on, and the other part would put the social male off. Even more so the mmorpg secluded geek living in a modern bubble with almost no sense of smell.

You didn't know? Cute girls always smell nice, it's in their genetic code.

All explanation we've been given over the game and their situation is so makeshift that i don't know if i should take it seriously or not.

[MFauli]

Hated this episode. Well, hated the girl. Rape this, rape there, all men are evil, boo boo boo! :/
Setting aside that I think rape doesn´t justify murder (at least not from an objective point of view), what exactly would she do if she managed to get off the island? Continue killing men? Her reaction and behavior is completely crazy.
But I don´t feel like it´s worth spending too much though on that part of this anime. Let´s just say I´d be happy if she died soon. Unfortunately, she´s got main character shielding.

On the topic of the actual meat of this show: Was it actually said that there are cameras on the island? Because if we assume that it is all a "real game", set up by some company to satisfy the twisted longings of, probably, rich people, how exactly is the game being presented to its audience?
This is important imo, because if it IS NOT presented via use of cameras and microphones and stuff, there has to be another purpose for all of what´s happening.

[Ryllharu]

Glad I wasn't the only one bothered by the absurdity of the, "She smells good," line. True, she had soap and such (she scrubbed herself red after the fat guy slobbered on her) when Sakamoto wandered into her the first time, but even so, it's a very warm tropical island. I guess you could say that she has strong pheromones or whatever. Himiko's sexual attractiveness to the opposite sex is well noted (the band members stated her former friends were just pre-show to them, they wanted her). Sakamoto is a shut-in social retard, so this is probably the first real-life girl he's ever smelled. Still, it would have made more sense if he had just commented that she was soft and moved on to fantasizing about stripping her.

The organizer of this game is playing himself, if what we've seen is any indication. He's wealthy, very good at BTOOOM, and backed up by guards. If anyone is a ringer, sleeping in comfort, fully fed and constantly armed with a variety of explosives, it's that fat piece of shit.

[Buffalobiian]

TL;DR - Main guy is cast as the only sane man in an insane situation. I like and can respect that he's trying to resist the temptation to throw away his civility and become a killer just because he could.

My problem lies with how Sakamoto is pretty much alive and unscathed at this point.

I would argue that one doesn't regress to killing because they can (no police around), but because it's necessary for ensuring survival. It's fine to try put morals into your decision making if you want to, but for doing so it should also put your life at more risk.

I was pissed off that Sakamoto was allowed so much time to think about his first kill, but somehow survived because his opponent was abysmally bad.

Later on when Sakamoto battles the kid (who wasn't abysmally bad), the writers couldn't use that trick again. Sakamoto had to either fight or die, but they wanted to keep him "pure", "morally good" and what not.. so they used amnesia/delusion as an excuse for the "immoral" behaviour that was necessary for his survival.

[MFauli]

For all this talk about inconsistency in Sakamoto´s fighting abilites (vr vs rl), you guys seem to completely ignore the discrepancy between his likable island-self and his "I´m a total asshole at home"-self. Seems a lot more striking imo.