The most powerful attacks also require some form of possibly-silent chanting for focus. We've seen Saki do it a number of times to protect herself. Satoru has done them as well. It only takes a brief moment, but it makes a telekinetic blast devastating instead of simply strong.
I would say it was very likely Inui used chanting to defeat the ragworm on the surface, but didn't have the time underwater, partly because he also had to warn Saki. He killed it, but could not stop its momentum.
Could the whole fiend strategy be a complete bluff? It's pretty obv that they wanted the humans to lead them to the anthrax, much more solid than using unstable fiends but maybe they aren't as unstoppable/powerful as they seemed and getting to the pscyhobuster was the true strategy?(well it is but why even do that if they can achieve domination with just fiends) Not sure how that would work though, from what we've seen the queerats have seemed really powerful already. Would be tough for the humans to even reach the psychobuster without kiroumarus(cant remember name) help so such an elaborate plan to make him trick the humans doesnt make complete sense without them seeking it from the very start, though it could obv just be a safeguard and they'd be satisfied with no one finding the psychobuster... I doubt that though.
So this episode they basically spelled out that it wasnt a fiend at all, but even karma demons wouldn't be able to decide to spare queerats right? They've made a point of making the "fiend" look pretty deranged but I guess it could just be having fun. Then again with the walking libraries and random technology unknown to us they could use lots of random stuff to explain it later on. Maybe they infused him/her with death feedback towards queerats using the same techniques? They are probably explained in the libraries too. Please correct me on stuff, I am def a bit confused atm.
Completely agree on loving the one point of view storytelling, boosts the immersion hard.
What is a fiend anyway? That's basically just a term used by the villagers to call someone who has lost all death feedback and is deranged enough to kill people randomly. Or rather, it's not even such a scientific term but a part of their folklore, even though it's real, if rare. So, no matter how you look at it, a human who walks around killing other humans with cantus without succumbing to death feedback is tecnically a fiend. I reckon Shun-inside-of-Saki probably denied it because labelling someone a fiend is nothing but easy labelling. It's kind of like calling someone an enemy without trying to understand anything about the other side.
The preview especially suggests this was nothing but a trap. It's not necessarily true that Kiromaru and Squealer are honestly working together (assuming Squealer is even capable of working honestly with anyone), but it's looking more and more they queerats were after the bioweapon even more than humans now. Relying on a volatile fiend is hardly a perfect solution, in the end, and like I said earlier, I doubt it would work everywhere either.
@Derek: The fiend was used to start a war with the humans and impact on their power and administration. Even if the war was won, the queerats still would have had a bunch of fiends/humans to deal with. They're not something they can reliably control forever because humans are just genetically superior in terms of raw power. One unsatisfied fiend could end it all for the queerats.
The "super weapon" sounds like the queerat's bet on something that could wipe out all humans at once (along with some of their own kind, but they won't mind a little sacrifice for freedom).
As for the fiend not being a fiend, I think it's as speculated in this thread: that the child was just an untrained human - not a deranged fiend. It also leaked cantus like any other human, but because it was never trained the leaked cantus affected its surroundings. Villagers have been conditioned to direct their subconscious leakages towards Tokyo.
They may or may not be a karma demon, depending on the definition of KD.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
You have a pretty low view of humans if somebody simply not trained will walk around and kill every other moving human on sight, and even hunt down those trying to escape. And wear a totally nuts expression while doing it, screaming like an animal. It's more than likely the queerats never even taught the poor bastard to talk and treated it like a tool, but it should still be a fiend by the original definition, if the defition is a murderous cantus user free of the death feedback or any other inhibitions. Since their world normally doesn't possess such individuals, it would be okay to call even the "normal" homicidal cantus users of old fiends. The emperors and such we saw historical flashbacks of.Originally Posted by Buffalobiian
Karma demon, from what I understood, is still responsible. An unresponsible karma demon would be another fiend.
That does make much more sense, I took it way too literally.
UTW - Episode 24
--------------------------------------------
TEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE.
"Make some sense, Saki."
"Maybe next episode."
Last edited by Buffalobiian; Sat, 03-16-2013 at 12:21 AM.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
The mirror idea was so stupid. As if queerats never looked into the surface of a lake or river.
Also, didn´t they explain some episodes ago how just throwing the powder towards the "fiend" wouldn´t work, because it would make the powder vanish before it that could reach it? I mean, all it takes is some simple telekinetic shield, and the powder would have no chance to get close to the fiend.
Btw when did Saki obtain the psychobuster? Must have slept for two minutes during last episode, lol.
Also, the fiend is a he? Always thought it is a girl. Whatevs.
Anyhow, Saki had several stupid ideas there. "Give it a chance" she says. Then wants to make it realize that it is human. Well, silly girl, what would happen then? Yes, insta-death, death feedback. How generous of you. ALSO, even if the fiend would realize it is human, so what? From what I gathered: Death feedback kills you, if you KNOW about death feedback. If all the fiend realized was being human, it still wouldn´t know that harming fellow humans would result in suicide. Which leads me to another question: Just how is death feedback being "installed" into humans´ brains anyway? It can´t be purely genetic, otherwise the "fiend" would be dead, no matter what it thinks of itself.
To conclude, I´d like to say how awesome the queerats are. This show isn´t about those annoying, arrogant human brats, it´s about the freedom move of queerats. Kiroumaru layed out the facts. Even though he doesn´t like Yakomaru´s methods, he planned the same thing. It also shows what a bunch of pricks humans are/were. Zero consideration for this other intelligent race. "Weeding" them out whenever they thought it right. To be honest, I hope Yakomaru wins. Have Saki be his love slave or something for maximum damage.
PS: Favorite moment of this episode: When Satoru stood in front of the fiend, after the mirror had been broken. No defence, nothing. Just that overwhelming terror of the fiend. Facing his end. The chills. Wow.
I'll be happy if by the next episode Saki actually does something, even if it's just sense.
It was so anticlimactic after these episodes that the bioweapon simply got burned away the moment it was used. I wasn't expecting this show to end like Planet of the Apes with its Alpha-Omega bomb... But come on.
@MFauli:
Using powder against Fiend
I don't remember any episode where they said it wouldn't work. If it was something you could visualise you could burn it, but a fiend likely doesn't know about powdered weapons being thrown at him. (might blow up the canister though). Plus, the fiend was supposed to be downwind, so the powder travels faster.
Mirror
This was forced, I agree. The fiend did travel to Tokyo on a boat, after all. It's hard to imagine that it never once had the desire to look at itself. That red hair should give it away.
death feedback
We've established that the feedback is via hypnosis when they seal your cantus. Your brain "learns" to suffocate yourself when you attack a humanoid. Maybe since cantus users have the power to project their thoughts into the world, the idea that you suffocate yourself actually becomes real via your own mental powers.
What also doesn't quite make sense is why Kiroumaru still sided with Saki when they had the psycho-buster. His reason for abandoning the thought of killing humans was because he concluded that there is no way to upturn them. The fact that Saki obtained the psychobuster is proof that they now have the ability.. though I suppose it's not anywhere near enough to kill the entire human race unless the queerats learn to manufacture it. Their technology is still way off from doing that right now.
I don't know who I dislike more at this point: Saki, or Shun.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
It's possible Kiroumaru has since changed his opinions a little, due to witnessing Squealer's actions. In the past he wanted a WMD to be able to fight humans, who were arbitrary masters and arrogantly treated queerats like animals, useful animals but animals nonetheless. However, Squealer's reign is hardly better now. In fact it's even worse since Squealer treats his own kind no better than humans. In Squealer's world anybody opposing Squealer's ideas is to be eradicated and the rest are just tools. At least Kiroumaru saw that humans tried to protect each other and in fact are unable to kill other humans. It might be he's now wishing for a middle road.
It's a bit too early to be hating Shun. Do we even know he's anything but a fragment of Saki's insanity?
I'm guessing Saki's plan is to ask Kiroumaru to talk to the fiend in the Queer rat tongue or something. Considering Kiroumaru is a queer rat, so he has the appearance and the language. It might be too silly or obvious a solution, but I don't care at this point anymore.
That's what I think too. Sounds like a Saki-plan. Peace it out.
What I really want to know: Where the hell are Maria and Mamoru? Poisoned by queerats during their hospitality stay? Did they ever even get away, or did queerats poisoned them, lobotomised them, then kept them alive long enough to bear a child?
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
I really think saki should get way more shit for doing that bs, everyone else dying for them to save humanity then she decides one more life is too much
Squealer waited for Maria to give birth, and then killed the both of them, by force or by guile. Then he delivered their real bones to the villages. He said he would fake it, but at the council meeting it became clear that what was delivered were not faked, which is why Saki started crying at the festival.
So did Maria and Mamouru end up escaping at all? Or did they take shelter in Squealer's camp for 10 months? That would have meant the council was happy to wait for 10 months for the bones as well.
edit: Hmm, he did say it could "take some time". Damn Squealer.
Last edited by Buffalobiian; Sun, 03-17-2013 at 09:14 PM.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
Episode 25 Final - UTW
- - - - - - -
Japanese non-cantus humans sure suffered a miserable fate. I wish this show had been longer and Squealer had been less monstrous in his actions and even more subtle and guileful. And patient of course. So that he and his decisions wouldn't have appeared so evil. Now this show kind of ended with two bad sides, the more powerful one retaining its supremacy and the weaker one reduced back to near oblivion. Though naturally it was clear the humans were bad from the beginning since the flashbacks showed them originally witlessly violent and murderous. However, this last episode again showed they aren't deep down much better even now, they just have a civilized icing on top of them, partially forced by the death feedback.
It feels like all the good people died in this show and the bad ones survived... That's too realistic!
Damn.Dammit.
I was close to crying three times during this episode. First, when Squealer just stood next to the dead "fiend", ignoring that two Cantus users are there. Then when he was in the court. And finally, when Saki reminisced to his "living remains", talking about past events. Damn.
Good lost, Evil won. That is my conclusion for this anime. What´s so irritating is that other than 10-years older (but un-aged lol) Saki´s diary writing, nobody within the dominant human society appeared to chance anything about this mess. There´s so much arrogance going on, incredible. Even Satoru (who totally looks like Link from Legend of Zelda) replied to Squealer´s honest words "You could be punished to death for that right now". WTF?! That´s exactly what Squealer meant, you dumbass! ALL the dominant humans in this series always treated the queerats as lesser beings. They never acknowledged these poor beings´ feelings.
And Squealer is now one of my favorite heroes of all time. Yeah, maybe he was on a bit of a power trip, but all he did was for his people´s sake. I was close to screaming when he explained all the sacrificing of his own people. "If I had won, it´d have all been worth it. But I lost ... that´s why I deserve to die." FUCK! I wanted to hug him so much. Poor guy. Poor, poor guy.
And that´s that.
Definitely no happy end. And I wonder what Saki and Satoru will do, if their first child turns out to be potentially dangerous and the society wants it dead. Not much explained there either.
Go, queerats.
Saki didn't age because she probably got to master Tomiko's DNA repairing techniques.
Regarding the ending, yes, very realistic. Survival of the fittest/strongest in the long term, regardless of morals/ethics.
And even worse, thanks to one of the most evolved/smartest queerat ever: Kiromaru.
Really, Cantus humans from the past did worse than a genocide by modifying the non cantus humans DNA to turn them into queerats. It's really a cheap price to pay, having to kill every child you think could harm your community.
With their DNA engineering capabilities, they could have removed Cantus from appearing and give the death-feedback to everyone.
Or Cantus and deathfeedback for everyone, but Cantus management is too tedious, so I prefer the former.
But since they were evil from the beginning, that was not the route taken.
As for what they did to squealer, that was clearly not from an advanced and good civilization.
They've been so far as to let the poor thing in a blob state when they were not able to get enough suffering feedback. Cause I think the poor thing wasn't able to shout or react at all in his last state.
Now, since they didn't show us if they did find the stolen babies, there's hope for an OVA where the queerats use them with even more care...
All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening. And then: Golf.
This whole time I was trying to figure out why the humans would put themselves in such a position where they can't defend themselves against dangerous humans. Apparently they thought they had all the dangerous humans under control save for the fiends. I guess when you're as evil and cruel as the humans are, the solution they came up with to try and create a utopian society was actually quite good. They still need a way to deal with fiends though.
And I'm with Fauli on this one, evil won. Yakomaru is Spartacus, he's William Wallace. Fucking Kimomaru is a tool and a house slave. I'm so mad right now.
"You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. Your are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it, your time has come. This time you will stand alone and fight for yourselves. Now you will pay for your freedom in the currency of honest toil and human blood."
- Inquisitor Czevak
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