Shin Sekai Yori

[Kraco]

Episode 10 - UTW






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Damn, did he really die? As they say, no body was shown, but it did give an impression of finality with the broken mask and everything. If that happened, this won't be a romance of any sort for me anymore but a tragedy, no matter what kind of pairs it might spawn later. It was the most cruel lesson for Saki in any case, of the true state of their world. I wouldn't really say there would have been great surprises as such in this episode, but it certainly condensed it all together and underlined subconsciousness, as well as added another, perhaps more important, reason why the hypnosis and conditioning are used so extensively; not to protect humans from the (willful) actions of other humans but rather themselves.

Whatever the case, I'm happy Saki at least was there, even if she couldn't do anything. Although I wish she had at least tried. She didn't even tell him she loved him as well.

[Ryllharu]

Damn, Saki was hot in this episode. Her hardened expressions were unbearably attractive.

I speculated before that her Cantus was just below average. That certainly didn't appear to be the case here. It's almost like she's been hiding the true level of her skill at the school. She crushed the cat with minimal effort, and she flies far better than Maria does. Yet, she was shown struggling to rebuild a glass jar. Was this a change in her determination (and therefore ability) because of her strong desire to see Shun, or has she always been this strong?

I wouldn't really say there would have been great surprises as such in this episode, but it certainly condensed it all together and underlined subconsciousness, as well as added another, perhaps more important, reason why the hypnosis and conditioning are used so extensively; not to protect humans from the (willful) actions of other humans but rather themselves.

There weren't many surprises in terms of what the subconscious is capable of, there was no limit to what Shun didn't warp, and how warped it became. Perhaps the most distressing was the milky water that had softened rectangular droplets, drifting slowly back to the pool. He was beginning to warp physics beyond the molecular level. Saki was certainly shocked by it when she put her hand into the pool.

I think the big surprise this episode was the true purpose of the barrier, to channel the entire community's subconscious warps of reality outside their community. Their small pocket of civilization ravages the world outside, possibly every night. Their nightmares, guided by the community leaders and the school, are physically manifested, purely through their imagination.

That revelation opens the door to some rather substantial questions.

That makes me think back to the episode when the group went down the river. The wondered if they would find one of the explosive bird nests, and found one. They wondered if they would see a blowdog, and they did eventually see a few. Most notably, they desired to find a false monoshiro...and found one, starting this whole mess. Everything that happened then is now in question. Did the five really just stumble across all those things on a trip that some of them thought started out pretty boring, or did they subconsciously allow it to manifest, strengthened by the fact that their close-knit group all thought about the same things as they discussed it right before they slept?

edit:
No wonder the queerrats revere them as gods, and fear them equally. The more powerful the group of queerrats, the more they fear the cantus-users. The most prominent tribe ultimately ends up being more on the mind of the humans, and correspondingly gets more subconscious "attention." Perhaps that is why Kiroumaru looks so human/dog-like compared to the others. The community leaders "respect" him, and he slowly got taller and more relatable to humans.

[Kraco]

Yeah, I also felt the reversed reason for the barrier was one of the best details of that kind in any anime. However, I wouldn't really call it a huge surprise, because from the beginning I had been thinking behind the boundary linger things the cantus users created either by going berserk or on purpose. I still deem it's impossible something like the minoshiro could be a pure accident. Sure, you could mutate some other creature to look like that, but the vast amount of information it contained must have come from somewhere. Unless the thing was pumped full of generations of dreams and information processed in dreams. But for that it was too organized and intelligent, no matter how you look at it. So, it must have been created on purpose.

[Ryllharu]

It was one thing to believe that the generations of power-mad telekinetic royals had created all manner of beasts out of boredom. Or rampaging karma demons. It was another that many of the creatures are just the fabrication of modern and controlled cantus users' subconscious thoughts leaking out over generations

I agree that the false minoshiro was created by scientists as a living library. Shun was talking about the regular minoshiros. The ones that rattle their back crystal-spines as they walk.

[Buffalobiian]

Damn, did he really die?

Shun sounded determined enough this time, and if a God really wants to die I don't think anybody could do otherwise.

As tragic as this is, I'm glad Subaru found Shun first and was the one to go with him. It's simply fitting.

As for Saki's ability, I don't think she tries to hide. She's not particularly smart, so I'd say that her conscious will to perform a task handicaps her performance. If she just acts more on gut instincts without trying to (wrongly) autocorrect, her Cantus seems to be pretty damn good.

[Kraco]

It was one thing to believe that the generations of power-mad telekinetic royals had created all manner of beasts out of boredom. Or rampaging karma demons. It was another that many of the creatures are just the fabrication of modern and controlled cantus users' subconscious thoughts leaking out over generations

Yeah, but I still wasn't so much surprised by it. That was my point. It was a big revelation, yes, and I think I admitted as much in my post, but not a surprise as such.

I agree that the false minoshiro was created by scientists as a living library. Shun was talking about the regular minoshiros. The ones that rattle their back crystal-spines as they walk.

Right. I stand corrected. I totally forgot that proper minoshiros existed and they weren't all walking libraries...

[David75]

Regarding Saki Cantus abilities, it could be the excercise she had to deal with is a lot more difficult/refined than most students.
After all, rebuilding a broken glass object costs a lot of entropy/energy with traditional means (reheat glass to liquid, recreate the bottle). In her case, she does it on the molecular level. Might prove more difficult than what Mamoru does with sand and painting...

So all in all it's possible that flying is in fact a lot easier.

Still, the over control theory is fine too. Happens to a lot of people.
Then there's another point, Sake was like chanting something, maybe some mantra to unlock more abilities?

Regarding the Library Minoshiro, Saki's mother is a librarian and Saki was the one able to activate it in her own way.
Could it just be possible that that minoshiro had Saki's mother leaked knowledge/subconscious? Saki's mother probably has access to part of the secrets and history.

[Ryllharu]

Regarding the Library Minoshiro, Saki's mother is a librarian and Saki was the one able to activate it in her own way.
Could it just be possible that that minoshiro had Saki's mother leaked knowledge/subconscious? Saki's mother probably has access to part of the secrets and history.

Nah, it was by chance that she was wearing the sunglasses (unless her mother forced her to take them? I can't remember). That was the thing that saved her from automatic hypnotism.

After that, Saki basically brute forced the thing by ripping its hypo-tendrils off one by one. "Convinced" it to respond to them.

[einbreaker]

Speaking of which what about the fact that Saki's mother gave Shun the book detailing the history of the karma demons. I thought it was kind of weird being that up until this point all the adults seemed to be restricting knowledge of the world. Why would she in this occasion just give him the book detailing what karma demons truly are?

[Kraco]

Why would she in this occasion just give him the book detailing what karma demons truly are?

Because karma demons have a "duty" of recording their experience into that diary as far as they are able to. To help future generations to fight against that degeneration.

[einbreaker]

Because karma demons have a "duty" of recording their experience into that diary as far as they are able to. To help future generations to fight against that degeneration.

I guess that would imply that they let the incident in his village happen if they knew he would be turned into a karma demon and didn't kill but instead gave him a journal.

Maybe he was past the point where they could have stopped him.

[Uchiha Barles]

See, this last episode created one question for me, that needs to be answered in order for this world to make sense. How do they contain, control, and dispose of those who seem to be going karma demon? Initially, we thought the cats were used as assassins. Turns out we were right, but as far as effectiveness in that role is concerned, they were pretty impotent. It seemed to me like they left Shun up to his own devices for the most part, and sent the cats out as insurance. What happens when those going karma demon aren't so willing to die for the greater good? I guess what I'm saying is, I don't see how the village can do much about it given what we've seen.

[Kraco]

I guess that would imply that they let the incident in his village happen if they knew he would be turned into a karma demon and didn't kill but instead gave him a journal.

Maybe he was past the point where they could have stopped him.

We heard the head priest tried to save him. I reckon he was given the book back then already, perhaps in the hopes that by reading the experiences of past karma demons, he might gain some clues and be able to stop his own transformation. Maybe they could have killed him back then instead, but were willing to take the risk to nurture a powerful cantus user and learn more about ways to prevent their birth. Or trying to kill him might have instead sped up the degeneration, causing even more damage. They did give him the bottle of poison early on, in any case.

What happens when those going karma demon aren't so willing to die for the greater good? I guess what I'm saying is, I don't see how the village can do much about it given what we've seen.

They do prune out all aggressive, selfish, rule breaking bastards very early on, though. That significantly increases the chances any karma demons developing later would cooperate. Well, cooperate as much as they can, anyway.

[MFauli]

Subaru

Didn´t like this episode. As with the beginning of Saki´s and Satoru´s adventure, it was way too confusing. What was Saki doing out there alone? Wasn´t she supposed to meet up with her friends?
And those hunter cats were quite the let down. I agree with Uchiha Barles, if that´s the best the village has to fight karma demons and "traitors" like Saki, they´re a lost cause.

[shinta|hikari]

I think not all karma demons are as powerful as Shun, who is supposedly a genius that is destined to replace the high priest.

Saki would have died if not for the charm that Shun gave her. I think the cats are pretty useful.

[Uchiha Barles]

Saki would have died if not for the charm that Shun gave her.

True, but Saki was being a giant pussy. Her knee jerk reaction to being bit on the neck was enough to put that cat out of commission. God help those cats if Satoru ever goes karma demon. I feel bad for them. Another question that'd be good to have an answer for is what kind of power can you typically expect from a cantus user? We still don't have a way to, however imprecisely, measure the relative capabilities of of anyone. All of the Cantus users we've seen do anything combat related have all done things that were quite impressive. Are we to believe they're all geniuses? Because for sure, they can all take out those cats.

[Ryllharu]

I wouldn't be so quick to underestimate the cats. The first one snuck up on Saki quite successfully. Their speed and initial stealth takes a lot of karma demons (or regular misbehaving students) by surprise.

As for the second, Saki warned Shun that they had released more than one, so he was on guard for it.

I think all Cantus users are meant to be incredibly powerful. At the very beginning of the flashbacks, the telekinetics were insanely powerful. The greater their level of self-control, the weaker they seem. They can accomplish great things rashly, in a panic, or out of desperation. It is the fine control that they are constantly trained on at the school. That is where many of them struggle. It probably takes very little concentration to hurl trees and set them ablaze, or wring a body like a dishcloth, but as David mentioned, rebuilding a glass jar requires a great deal more control to get things just right.

[shinta|hikari]

Shun automatically transformed the molecular structure of the numerous poison pills he ingested to render them harmless.

No, not everyone is a genius like Shun.

[Kraco]

Shun automatically transformed the molecular structure of the numerous poison pills he ingested to render them harmless.

No, not everyone is a genius like Shun.

He didn't do that willingly. They spent a lot of time in this episode to establish cantus as a subconscious power that's hard to control. However, when you aren't actually trying to control it, it can accomplish far greater things by flowing freely according to the whims, dreams, wishes, and whatever other poorly controlled processes. So, it's not actually a life of trying to muster enough strength to do something but rather trying to suppress the flow so that the necessary amount focused and shaped to do the wanted task is let out. Normally they do seem to be able to perfectly cut out all of it, though, except when sleeping, based on Shun's words.

In light of this, it could be Satoru wasn't getting so tired during the trip arc because he used so much cantus but because he was controlling and focusing it so much.

I also think the cats are normally more effective than this episode suggested also for the simple reason most of the villagers have never done anything violent or even seen it done. So, under normal circumstances, the cat always gets the first strike, and it should be lethal. Karma demons are a different thing because they aren't in control, so anything thrown at them, short of a nuclear bomb, would have totally unpredictable efficiency.

[shinta|hikari]

Like I said, automatically.

My point is that others won't be able to do the same. If every single karma demon was able to do that, the adults would not have given the poison to Shun in the first place.

EDIT: To clarify, I think that aside from controlling your cantus, there is the issue of a person's base ability. Even the subconscious is limited by one's power. For example, normal humans cannot suddenly fly just because they are asleep. They are still bound by what the body and mind can potentially do.

I also think that having more power makes it difficult to control, which is why Shun ended up the way he did. He wasn't really the most rebellious type, but due to his power, everything went out of control.

That said, I think that while the other karma demons do possess a higher level of cantus that normal, that does not mean they are all on the same level as Shun. His base ability is just so much higher, and that much more dangerous.