Sword Art Online Comparisons between the Light Novel and the Anime

[Y]

There's also trolls like Y.

He claims that he's not messing around, yet almost every response to something he doesn't agree with usually involves an insult. He start arguments by intentionally saying derogatory things in order to provoke a response. Then he would neg rep every person that disagree with him and state that he did it just because some anonymous neg rep him. For good measure, it seems like he needs to jump into this thread and pull it into a pile of horseshit too because there isn't already enough conflict in the anime thread.

That's all i really have to say about Y. I refuse to waste anymore time with his garbage so i'm ignoring his posts and will just hope for the best.

I laid out my points very succinctly in discussions, and in return I was slapped by anonymous negative replies, posts with no substance insisting I was just trolling, and people like yourself and shinta|hikari retreating to a thread you assumed I and others with negative opinions wouldn't post in to snidely talk shit in this manner. But, of course, this isn't trolling, having the wrong opinion about a Japanese TV show is.

Plenty of my complaints have nothing to do with my apparently radical interpretation of a shut-in loser addicted to MMO games as an antisocial person. The weakness in the mystery script. The creepy, bizarre "sister-cousin lookalike gets almost fondled by tentacles" episode. The disconnected feeling of the early stories, which pretty much every novel reader agreed with and even provided the reasons for (telling the stories out of order without making them fit the character arc). I might be alone in saying I find the house art style bland but is that really such a deranged opinion that it must be presented only to troll you?

There's also the argument that people are being unduly harsh because the show is "too popular" and I feel it's "over-hyped". I picked this show up because I thought the premise was fun having no idea that the book was one of the more popular light-novel series or that the show came with great anticipation, not that those factors are in any way relevant to the quality of the show or lack thereof. I thought the first episode was good enough to keep watching and I thought subsequent episodes had several notable issues. The fact that my posts are typically something negative about the episode is not because I'm just trying to piss you off, it's how I analyze and critique media I'm consuming.

I have to wonder if we even read the same novel.

If you value your life above all else, staying in a village and waiting for somebody else to clear the game is the wisest route to take. But I go to the front lines every day solo. Am I just simply an addict of VRMMO who keeps increasing his stats through countless battles, or—

Am I an idiot who insolently believes that he can win the freedom of everyone in this world with his sword?

Please refrain from name calling in your posts.

What name calling? "Bucko" is, as Buff said, a term like "buddy". I'm calling MasterOfMoogles reading paradigm stupid and reductionist, not him.

[MasterOfMoogles]

Y, whether you meant to or not, you have set a tone in most of your posts that is very negative to discussion and to other users.
Here is a good example from the other thread:

You guys must be letting your perspective from reading the books fuck your judgment up. Kirito in the first episode expressed understanding and sympathy to the goals of the crazy, mass murdering game designer. Yes, that's right. The only sense of emotional connection he formed in the first four episodes is with the greatest mass murderer in history. This is your altruistic hero, assclowns.

So you start off by saying everyone has fucked up judgment. A little harsh, but ok, maybe you can explain it.

Next, you say something that is basically untrue. In Episode 1, Kirito is clearly angry when Kayaba is laying out the rules of the game. Kirito explains he admired Kayaba (and who wouldn't? The guy is a genius that made VR a reality!) as a way to explain how he understood he was telling the truth. The reason Kirito knows what Kayaba says is true isn't because he agrees with him or anything, it is because Kirito followed information about this awesome developer, so he knew that he said some pretty strange things as shown by the article that is cut to briefly.

So to anyone who takes everything said at face value or read the novels, you read into something that wasn't there, and then you top off the post by insulting everyone.

I'm not saying you can't have an opinion, but when you make a post like this and then basically tell everyone that disagrees that they're crazy, it just doesn't do anything for good discussion. You shouldn't be surprised if people don't like your posts or think you're trolling when you call everyone an assclown at the end.

If you value your life above all else, staying in a village and waiting for somebody else to clear the game is the wisest route to take. But I go to the front lines every day solo. Am I just simply an addict of VRMMO who keeps increasing his stats through countless battles, or—

Am I an idiot who insolently believes that he can win the freedom of everyone in this world with his sword?

As I started walking towards the labyrinth entrance with a slight smile of self-scorn, I thought back to that day.

Kirito is questioning his own motives, and he even thinks it is ridiculous that he might be doing it to be a hero. I wouldn't really call that "spewing hackneyed garbage about how he's going to be the one to save the world".

[Y]

Y, whether you meant to or not, you have set a tone in most of your posts that is very negative to discussion and to other users.

Just about every reply in that thread, the anonymous negative reps, and several posts in this thread all tell me to stop posting. This is a literal, not a figurative, attempt to stifle discussion. In this very thread people are attempting to get mods to shut down discussion and ghetto it off to the anime thread so that they can sit in here and make passive-aggressive comments about how unenlightened the anime viewers are. That, again, is a literal attempt to stifle discussion.

I made a followup post citing the rationale behind that initial post, which you pointedly did not reply to.

Kirito is questioning his own motives, and he even thinks it is ridiculous that he might be doing it to be a hero. I wouldn't really call that "spewing hackneyed garbage about how he's going to be the one to save the world".

I would. Because it is. The prose in SAO is miserable.

[MasterOfMoogles]

I'm not telling you to stop posting, just to not always be looking down on other people posting and insulting them. Again, maybe that is not your intention, but that is the tone of your posts.

Regarding the content, since I don't read the forum and post all the time, I felt like I missed the window to comment since everyone had moved on to arguing about other stuff. Also, in my opinion you were further reading into Kirito's "I read a lot about him so I understand he's serious" to reach a conclusion that he understood why Kayaba would do it, which to me doesn't logically follow at all.

"This is reality. Kayaba Akihiko, the genius who created the NerveGear. I admired him, so I get it. What he said was the truth." Cut to quote from the article 'This is a game, but it's not just something you play.' "If I die in this world, I'll die for real."

There didn't seem to be much reason to comment since you basically called me an assclown in the previous post, so why would I even bother trying to have a real discussion.

[Y]

I'm not telling you to stop posting, just to not always be looking down on other people posting and insulting them.

No.

Regarding the content, since I don't read the forum and post all the time, I felt like I missed the window to comment since everyone had moved on to arguing about other stuff. Also, in my opinion you were further reading into Kirito's "I read a lot about him so I understand he's serious" to reach a conclusion that he understood why Kayaba would do it, which to me doesn't logically follow at all.

Think about it like this. He just found out the guy had arranged his videogame premier as a psychotic death trap and still thought of him as a "genius" to himself. Now you might say it's going to take him some time to lose his ingrained mental image of the game designer, but that's like hearing Hitler talk about exterminating the Jews and still think of him in your head as "the genius leader of Germany". The awe in his voice, even after the guy's crazy battle plan has been laid out, is palpable, compared to his neutral and detached tone when dealing with everything else in the world. Like I said in the other thread "I admired him, so I get it." is a completely nonsense line - you don't need to admire the crazy game creator to understand that he has created a death trap. For example, the audience understood it, probably long before any of the characters did, and none of them admire him. Taken alone, out of context, the line might not be as suggestive, but Kirito's social disconnect from the world certainly gives it a dual meaning. Kirito also treats people like objects (and in later episodes, objects like people) so, imo, the reading is perfectly sound.

[MasterOfMoogles]

Never heard of an evil genius? I wouldn't really use genius here, but many people recognized Hitler as a brilliant leader, even more-so when he was alive, even though what he did was a terribly atrocious crime against humanity.

I've re-watched the scene several times, and I'm just not seeing what you're talking about.
A lot of people didn't believe the game was a death trap at first, but because Kirito admired Kayaba (ie. thought he made cool stuff and read up on everything he said), he knew it was the truth.

Kirito doesn't treat people like objects. He doesn't really know how to talk to people or get along, but he always cares about their well-being (providing teleport crystals, making sure they're out of danger, etc).

I find it interesting that most of the complaints with SAO are usually that Kirito is a Gary Sue who is so perfect he is unrealistic and can do no wrong, but some people in the anime see him as a psychopath.

[Buffalobiian]

Okay, I've moved discussion of SAO Light Novel progression/content to another thread so that posters and readers can have a more organised discussion regarding the actual topic they're interested in.

The forum doesn't let me split posts up, so I've instead cut/pasted relevant sections and tried to put them into order.

--------------

FAQ:

1) Where can I discuss the Light novel with people? Click this to be redirected to the correct thread

2) I only want to talk about the anime. Where do I post? The SAO thread in the anime section

3) How about if I want to compare the aired episodes of SAO with the LN portrayals? Here

4) Where do I go if I want to speculate about how LN would/could be adapted into unaired episodes, movies or other media? Click this to be redirected to the correct thread

Happy Posting

[Ryllharu]

@MasterOfMoogles
The problem is the change in the narrative. In the novel, Kirito tells you he's a Wesley Crusher. That all his actions are heroic, that he's a nice guy who's smart and wonderful at everything, and thinks about other before himself. If that can't be conveyed in the anime without first-party narration, that's a sign of bad writing of both the novel and the anime script.

In the anime, the best you can think of him is as someone with a hero-complex, because he doesn't act very heroic when there is no chance of his own death at Floors 25-50, and probably has Aspergers. The kind of person who runs away from his problems in real life (forcing his sister into martial arts so he gets to do what he likes), but constantly going back to lower levels to show off how strong and cool he is to the weaker players, ultimately getting them killed when he lies about it.


@Buff: This is weak. It's just pandering to a small group who want their fluff conversations to be isolated from real discussion or any criticism at all.

[Buffalobiian]

@Buff: This is weak. It's just pandering to a small group who want their fluff conversations to be isolated from real discussion or any criticism at all.

It's more about fine-tuning and narrowing discussion topics down.

If a thread's topic or intention is for the discussion of one medium or more, it should be entitled to. It's also arguable that Novel readers may only want to be exposed to such and not be spoiled by anime content. (That's technically spoiling, even if it's overlooked or welcome in most cases).

Ease of access for either discussion is the same as before. No one is disallowed to post about topics. They just have a new thread to do it in.

[Dark Dragon]

@Buff: This is weak. It's just pandering to a small group who want their fluff conversations to be isolated from real discussion or any criticism at all.

If you'll take notice, Shinta and I made 1-2 post in regard to our OPINION that the anime is not being treated fairly. While the entire first page of the previously connected thread was all LN discussion.

If you and Y really want to go through the trouble of addressing it and putting yourselves at risk for spoilers, that's your business. That was not the main point of the thread, just a very small amount of contents that offended you guys. If Shinta and I really wanted to have a "private" conversation away from any real discussion or criticism, there's this thing call PM.

It was simply frustration expressed by fans of the show, because they feel like the object of their affection is not being treated fairly. Is that really so hard to understand? Must everything that doesn't directly agree with you be some sort of attempt at ridiculing or insulting your opinion?

[Ryllharu]

I know it isn't the case having discussed it with Buff, but from your response here, it certainly does look like I hit the mark, doesn't it?

It was simply frustration expressed by fans of the show, because they feel like the object of their affection is not being treated fairly. Is that really so hard to understand? Must everything that doesn't directly agree with you be some sort of attempt at ridiculing or insulting your opinion?

I would have agreed with you, but you posted this:

I just feels like some people in that thread are determined to hate the show just because there are some novel readers who are ready and willing to defend it. It's just one of those things that is best left alone.

Maybe the SAO anime is just a victim of the overwhelming popularity of the novels.

A post so loaded with smarmy, self-satisfying rhetoric it was hard to ignore. Then shinta responded in kind, and then when Y interjected, he was met with dismissal and three attempts to change the subject.

It was pretty obvious which specific group of posters both of your comments were directed toward. I held back for a while, but the attitude that the thread was beginning to exude called for a response.

edit:
Regarding spoilers, with all the light novel readers shitposting all over the internet, that's not really an issue. Read a comment section covering an episode, get spoiled about an unrelated plot point. Already happened a couple of times to me so far.

[Dark Dragon]

I stand by what i said.

I already stated that the anime is inadequate. It's however not deserving of the large amount of criticism in the anime thread.

It was made clear from that beginning that you guys wanted to interpret the content as presented by the anime and that's fine. I can understand the desire to interpret separate mediums differently, which is why i opted out of the discussion early.

But can you honestly tell me that the amount of nitpicking in that thread is normal? Many of the tropes common in other fantasy anime is also presented in SAO. In other anime like Legend of Legendary Heroes, these tropes are merely sweep into the "generic" label and quickly forgot about while the focus of the discussion is on the merits of the anime. However in the SAO thread, everytime one of the trope shows up in an episode it is immediately criticized and the focus then becomes a long on going argument about the merits of Kirito's character.

It feels a very small number of poster in that thread is still watching the show for the sake of watching. That is how i feel and if you disagree then that's fine too.

To clarify my statement. I knew that SAO was very hype by the readers of the novels before the show came out and it was made out to be like it's going to be some amazing anime. I feel like the harsh criticism the show is receiving is partly due to how hyped the show was before it came out. I myself didn't start reading the novels until after the anime came out.

If you somehow took my statement as an insult to your interpretation of the anime then i apologize, because that was not the intent.

In regard to Y. My problem with him has nothing to do with his interpretation of the content. In fact i find the concept of viewing Kirito's as a sort of anti-hero/borderline villainous main character to be pretty interesting.

However, you neglect to acknowledge in any your post so far that he's a condescending jackass who feels the need to insults almost everyone he's having a discussion with. It's a personal pet peeve of my that makes it impossible for me to have a meaningful discussion with these type of people. It's almost akin to an atheist going around calling every religious person an idiot and then expect them to accept everything that is said afterward. That is why i didn't want to respond to any of his garbage, it has nothing to do with him disagreeing with me.

And lastly about spoilers. Regardless of whether or not is prevalent on the internet, the general rule of this forum for the longest time tends to be harsh toward spoiling. I don't know if that has gotten lax recently, but we're already going through the trouble of actually have different sub-forum for the sake of discussing different mediums. I don't see why it's a problem to leave the spoilers in the LN thread and have this thread for the discussion of this topic.

[Ryllharu]

But can you honestly tell me that the amount of nitpicking in that thread is normal? Many of the tropes common in other fantasy anime is also presented in SAO. In other anime like Legend of Legendary Heroes, these tropes are merely sweep into the "generic" label and quickly forgot about while the focus of the discussion is on the merits of the anime. However in the SAO thread, everytime one of the trope shows up in an episode it is immediately criticized and the focus then becomes a long on going argument about the merits of Kirito's character.

For a series as dull and uninspired as this has been, it is perfectly normal. Peruse the Sacred Blacksmith thread. It got a beating for its terrible lines of dialogue and asinine statements by the leads (very similar lines to things said in Sword Art), dropped by many forum members, compared as inferior to titty shows, etc.

Darker than Black 2 got ripped apart in that series thread, where I was in the same position you are now, attempting to defend it. Constant nitpicking there. Equally highly anticipated series as Sword Art, if not more so.

It feels a very small number of poster in that thread is still watching the show for the sake of watching. That is how i feel and if you disagree then that's fine too.

To clarify my statement. I knew that SAO was very hype by the readers of the novels before the show came out and it was made out to be like it's going to be some amazing anime. I feel like the harsh criticism the show is receiving is partly due to how hyped the show was before it came out. I myself didn't start reading the novels until after the anime came out.

I will admit I am still watching it to figure out why it is so popular. I'm being patient, but it is wearing very thin. Sword Art has been only barely better than The Sacred Blacksmith as mentioned above, and the uniform insistence that it gets better is the only thing keeping me watching.

However, you neglect to acknowledge in any your post so far that he's a condescending jackass who feels the need to insults almost everyone he's having a discussion with. It's a personal pet peeve of my that makes it impossible for me to have a meaningful discussion with these type of people.

Insults have been thrown by both sides, overt, thinly veiled, or passive-aggressively. I did not feel that merited any discussion.

[MasterOfMoogles]

I don't mind having the threads split since that just gives us the opportunity to talk about more stuff.

Edit: As bad as Scared Blacksmith? Really? That show was pretty terrible (except for Guard! Protect! Belive! spelling mistake which was hilarious). My anime group watched that and thought it was bad. The same group is now watching SAO (also having not read the novels) and aside from the complaints about the episodic-ness and rushed pace, they like it a lot.

In the anime, the best you can think of him is as someone with a hero-complex, because he doesn't act very heroic when there is no chance of his own death at Floors 25-50, and probably has Aspergers. The kind of person who runs away from his problems in real life (forcing his sister into martial arts so he gets to do what he likes), but constantly going back to lower levels to show off how strong and cool he is to the weaker players, ultimately getting them killed when he lies about it.

Running around with a chance of dying is not heroic, it is just stupid. I don't think anyone would disagree Kirito is socially awkward. Can you really blame him for running away from his abusive grandfather forcing him to do something he didn't want to do?

From the novels we know Kirito was at the lower levels collecting materials to upgrade his weapons, and he ran into the Black Cats and saved their lives. Obviously you're not shown that in the anime, but to say he was at the lower floors to show off is weird. You're making up stuff that suits your opinion here.
He joins the guild because he is lonely after soloing for 5-6 months, and he is afraid to tell them the truth fearing that they would hate him. Unfortunately, that leads to their demise as he doesn't give them information that could potentially have saved their lives, and he hates himself for it.

[Dark Dragon]

For a series as dull and uninspired as this has been, it is perfectly normal. Peruse the Sacred Blacksmith thread. It got a beating for its terrible lines of dialogue and asinine statements by the leads (very similar lines to things said in Sword Art), dropped by many forum members, compared as inferior to titty shows, etc.

Fair enough, i retract my previous statement.

I will admit I am still watching it to figure out why it is so popular. I'm being patient, but it is wearing very thin. Sword Art has been only barely better than The Sacred Blacksmith as mentioned above, and the uniform insistence that it gets better is the only thing keeping me watching.

At this point, i'm not sure how much better it's going to get. We are getting back to the main storyline because they've pretty much ran out of side-story. It's too little too late because if most of the watcher of the anime feels the same way you do about Kirito then the next few episodes might not have any impact at all. Best case scenario is they'll redeem Kirito's character.

[Ryllharu]

From the novels we know Kirito was at the lower levels collecting materials to upgrade his weapons, and he ran into the Black Cats and saved their lives. Obviously you're not shown that in the anime, but to say he was at the lower floors to show off is weird. You're making up stuff that suits your opinion here.
He joins the guild because he is lonely after soloing for 5-6 months, and he is afraid to tell them the truth fearing that they would hate him. Unfortunately, that leads to their demise as he doesn't give them information that could potentially have saved their lives, and he hates himself for it.

Had they thrown out just one, 12 second line stating any of that, it would have been better. Instead, what else are we left to believe but that he strolls through lower level areas for no reason? He clearly enjoyed showing off all his knowledge in episode 1, and appears enjoys tutoring the weak and ignorant. Usually that's done to show off. Without knowing what he's thinking, it's impossible to know he legitimately wants to help any of these people. That's a major failure in the writing (both novel and anime).

We only now learned that weapons are upgradeable, and not just straight drops replaced by other fresh drops.

[MasterOfMoogles]

I don't think anyone is going to disagree that the adaptation could have been a lot better.

What'd everyone think about the Warmth of the Heart adaptation?
Seemed pretty decent, about on par with Scilica's story.
They cut out a few things from the end to leave some suspense for next episode, which I think is fine.

[shinta|hikari]

I have been reading the recent comments about how the anime is progressing, and I find most of them were addressed by novel volumes that will likely not get animated.

The Kuradeel episode was actually pretty close to the novel, with Kirito not showing much guilt for killing someone. But this was addressed in Phantom Bullet, where it was explained that Kirito was merely running away from the guilt, and eventually had to face it. This will never show up in the anime though, making Kirito seem like a pretty cold one-sided bastard.

I am glad that the anime is going in chronological order at least for the next arc. The Yui character was the biggest and stupidest retcon in the story, and at least this time it will show in a more logical sequence.

[MasterOfMoogles]

If only they had another 3-5 minutes each episode, the show would be significantly better, which is unfortunate. In this episode, for example, you could have had the scene where they go to Heathcliff and explain what happened and that they're leaving the guild for a while before they head to Asuna's house. Small scenes like that would be enough to tie everything together and not leave people wondering what is going on or thinking things like "Wow, they didn't even acknowledge people died". It is frustrating that to fully enjoy the show you need to think about or assume what happens off-screen, and not many people are willing to do that and instead assume it is just bad.
That said, the latest episodes have still been pretty good. The duel was fairly well done and the Kirito/Asuna dynamics are fun to watch.

At some point, when someone is trying to kill you and the people you love, you have to do something about it or lose something important. He already attacked Asuna after being given a chance once. Would you try to take him into custody? Would you let him run away if he tried? If he kept trying to attack would you finish him or just run away? It is easy to say what you would do, but I don't know what I would do in such a situation.

I like Yui, so I'm glad she's showing up here. I'm curious as to how they're going to cut her story to fit in one episode. Really though, I am just waiting for the 75th floor boss fight, which should hopefully be epic.