Sword Art Online

[Ryllharu]

I have no idea if this arc was ever in the novels, but this seriously felt like SAO switched narratives entirely...and had to start with a 5 minute explanation from Yui about how it was possible. NPCs and bosses having some level of AI and self-determination is just too outside the box here. Even Yui was a system level AI.

It's as if they saw a certain other MMO series and decided to copy it.

You couldn't have the game's equivalent Yui-Level AI wasting time on having Frejya being Klein's in-game girlfriend.

At least the One-Time Only, world changing quests were a part of SAO from very early on, so that part at least makes sense, as does the quest auto-generation to support that.

edit:
...and I just convinced myself that not only was all this bullshit possible, it was actually probable based on what we saw in the original SAO game. Yui's level of intelligence makes a lot of things possible. I guess she can't be the only learning-AI program Kayaba developed.

[NeoCybercoin]

I have to say I prefer this over the BoB festival. Back into the fantasy RPG's. Just turn off your brain and enjoy.

[MFauli]

sometimes i wonder why those japanese authors think that watching such a perfect hero is interesting to do. Same with Ichika from Infinite Stratos. I´d much rather watch someone like Klein, who has his flaws, follow him as he grows stronger, tries to get a girl and whatever. With Kirito, everything´s just gravitating towards him without any effort. Sigh, now im reminded of Sasuke ...

[DarthEnderX]

sometimes i wonder why those japanese authors think that watching such a perfect hero is interesting to do.

Because some people think it is.

[Kraco]

sometimes i wonder why those japanese authors think that watching such a perfect hero is interesting to do.

Because some people think it is.

There are MCs in shows that are utterly miserable and shouldn't be the heroes in the first place. In other series the hero starts relatively weak and gradually grows stronger, which might be the main type in shounen shows. Then there are those who are good to begin with. You just need to pick the stories you watch, which is great because that way everybody will have something to watch. Needless to say, if the original author is worth his ink, a story can be interesting and exciting in all the three cases. Like MOG said, compared to Mahouka, Kirito has been continuously struggling from one challenge to the next. In any case in my personal opinion a competent MC possessing a harem, if a harem he must have, is much better than a loser having one. At least in SAO's case it's not impossible to see why the girls would flock to Kirito. Compare that to IS, where the dude gets a harem simply because he happens to be the only guy in the school full of girls, despite his brain making depleted uranium look fluffy in comparison.

[MasterOfMoogles]

You better not watch The Irregular at Magic High School. The main character in that show makes Kirito look like a bumbling idiot. He makes Gary Stus everywhere feel inadequate.

[Buffalobiian]

Hellsing does it right.

[shinta|hikari]

@MFauli - I like genius types more than hardworking types. It is a matter of preference. I know it is tempting to view something you do not understand or prefer as "wrong" or "bad," but it is something that you can easily avoid by understanding how vastly people's views differ. My personal reason for this preference is, rather than feeling excited, I prefer to feel awed by the characters. I am also able to empathize more with prodigies compared to the average joe.

[MFauli]

Well, guess it really is about preferences then. But the more I think about it, the more I´d love Klein to be the "hero" of SAO. Someone who´s sometimes clumsy, awkward and strong, but not unrealistically strong. Somebody who decides to help others despite knowing that he´s far from invincible and has to put his life at risk every single time. That´s why I also always liked Kuririn more than Son-Goku. When Goku fights, you know he´s gonna win somehow. But when Kuririn faces Nappa, or when he stands in front of Freezer, you wonder "wtf is this poor brave guy gonna do?!". And when he manages to achieve something, its all the more awesome.

Then there´s also the somewhat separate issue of romances. Part of it is me being jealous, surely. Kirito has it all, the skills, the looks, and the girls. He´s just too lucky. But then there´s also the part that simply makes it silly for someone to have a "harem". Yes, it´s an anime trope, but when an anime attempts to tell an engaging story, I would expect more than such silliness. Seriously, where is this leading? If you turn on your brain for a moment, whats next? Kirito and Asuna are a couple ad infinitum, theyre not gonna break up. So what is Silica´s, Liz´s, Shinon´s and Leifa´s plan for the future? Stay bitter singles forever? At some point marry a different guy, telling him "honey, Im sorry, but if there´s ever a chance, Ill let myself get fucked by this other guy. Hope you understand."? That´s why it´s just too silly, there´s no endgame.
To summarize, the legitimacy of a harem depends on the type of anime. Is it one of those cheap romance shows? Sure, whatever. But is it an anime that goes on about this epic Aincrad, players being trapped inside and dying? Then I expect more.

[Buffalobiian]

So basically it's down to either cheering for the underdog vs admiring the talented. And polygamy is still a thing, even if it's not legally sanctioned. I suppose the girls will just stick around until they get pregnant over him.

[DarthEnderX]

I think there's also an important distinction between being a perfect heo, and simply being the best at something.

Kirito isn't perfect, he's just the best one there is.

So basically it's down to either cheering for the underdog vs admiring the talented.

And I think it's perfectly acceptable to be able to enjoy both of those things. I'm just as capable of enjoying a Naruto(early series) as I am a Goku.

But then there´s also the part that simply makes it silly for someone to have a "harem". Yes, it´s an anime trope, but when an anime attempts to tell an engaging story, I would expect more than such silliness. Seriously, where is this leading? If you turn on your brain for a moment, whats next? Kirito and Asuna are a couple ad infinitum, theyre not gonna break up. So what is Silica´s, Liz´s, Shinon´s and Leifa´s plan for the future? Stay bitter singles forever? At some point marry a different guy, telling him "honey, Im sorry, but if there´s ever a chance, Ill let myself get fucked by this other guy. Hope you understand."? That´s why it´s just too silly, there´s no endgame.

To summarize, the legitimacy of a harem depends on the type of anime. Is it one of those cheap romance shows? Sure, whatever. But is it an anime that goes on about this epic Aincrad, players being trapped inside and dying? Then I expect more.

Well, there IS an endgame for a harem. It's when the guy picks one of the girls.

Which is why it doesn't work in SAO. Normally in a harem situation, once the guy picks someone, that's the end of the series.

Kirito has picked someone, but the series is still going on. So what we're seeing here is the weird awkwardness of what goes on with the Harem after it's supposed to be over.

[shinta|hikari]

That's a good analysis of the situation.

Asuna should learn to share a little. I have read harem doujins of SAO with more believable settings than the current one in the anime.

[MFauli]

A proper endgame would be:

- Kirito and Asuna marry
- Shinon leaves for GGO
- Silica finds a boy her age
- Klein marries Leafa
- Liz stays single because nobody likes her

[MasterOfMoogles]

Let's imagine a scenario with a real life MMO. To make it more realistic, let's say there are all guys and 1 girl.
The people in this MMO play together in the same guild because they're friends and have fun. Then the girl hooks up with one of the guys. Are all of the other guys just going to quit the guild even though they're having a good time? Most likely not. They'll still hang out, and probably continue to talk to and flirt with the girl a little even.
Heck, when I played WoW, our 40 man raiding group had a couple women. One was even married with her husband also in the guild, yet she still talked to everyone a lot and made jokes and stuff with everybody.

I don't think this situation is really that far from what is presented in SAO. The unnatural part, of course, is that the male to female ratio is reversed.

As for your endgame thoughts, some of them are questionable.
The only reason Shino played GGO specifically was to get over her gun issue. If she can have just as much fun with any other game while also playing with friends, why wouldn't she do that? Although she got over her gun trauma, she probably has new male/relationship trauma that she needs to get over.

Suguha is way too young for Klein. Like, seriously. Maybe if they hung out and 4-5 years passed and they were still interested, maybe...
If anyone, I think Liz gets along best with Klein. Still pretty young, though. Klein's like 8 years older than them (and Sugu is younger than Kirito).

Which brings us to your last point. Poor Liz... What's wrong with Liz? I don't think she deserves to be forever alone. She needs to get over Kirito, though.

Sugu actually already has a potential pairing in that random kid from her school who she doesn't really hate or anything. She just has major oniichan problems.

I think the most awkward part of the whole SAO harem situation is that Kirito and Asuna got married in-game, but not in real life. Kirito also has no idea how to handle all of these women coming onto him when he really has already decided.

[lelouch]

Suguha is way too young for Klein. Like, seriously.

Dude, this is a show where Suguha tried to bang her brother and where Kirisuna are raising a virtual baby. I don't think an age gap can be seen as a significant obstacle for something like this.

[MasterOfMoogles]

Sugu was actually doing a pretty good job keeping it to herself until Kirito totally messed it up by popping up in ALO. Even then, you're exaggerating.

I don't really see how Yui is relevant to this discussion.

[Buffalobiian]

The only problem with all of the girls is that they won't see much in Klein after being used to Kirito. That NPC is perfect for Klein.

[DarthEnderX]

Not to mention, the NPC is probably programmed to be predisposed to the player that rescued her.

[shinta|hikari]

People fall in and out of love all the time. These harem girls will find another dude or Asuna will learn to share.

[MFauli]

8 years is a huge age gap? Coe on, thats mean. There are currently two girls irl Im fawning over that are 10 years younger than me :Y

As for the reversed gender ratio: I dont think thats the only difference to your example. These girls arent just having fun and flirting a bit, they really WANT Kirito. That´s what makes it awkward.