I would actually like to see an episode dedicated to the front lines, enough of this 'hang around lowbies' episodes. :P
I would actually like to see an episode dedicated to the front lines, enough of this 'hang around lowbies' episodes. :P
You are correct. Episode 3 and 4 are considered Volume 2 and are a part of the side stories. There should be one more back story episode after this.Originally Posted by Ryllharu
I loved this episode. I enjoy it when the protagonist is actually bad ass, and there is nothing more bad ass than not being able to die even if you don't do anything.
This is a 26 episode show. Be patient and all of this information will make sense eventually.
Peace.
I'm not in agreement with Ryll here. Episode 2 showed how Kirito made a name for himself as well as the general "frontline beta" category Beater. Episode 3 showed how being Kirito/beater is perceived negatively by the lower ranking players, while episode 4 showed being in such a class reflects positively (accepting requests, helping people get important items when they need them).
The one thing I could have hoped for is to have Kirito being more unsure about helping the imouto after episode 3's disaster. I supose he did give her a warp crystal so she wasn't likely to die, but having a bit of "spill-over" thoughts from epsode three to show how this adventure regained his confidence in playing with others would have been better for continuity.
Then again, the time and level gain between these episodes (lvl48 - lvl78) means he would have had plenty of chances to get over that.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
Yeah, and none of that translates to knowing anything about Kirito, and in what way or even if he's changed.
Episode 4: After we found out his reason for helping her was different that what he claimed (she was just bait anyway), we honestly don't know if he was giving her saying anything true, or if it was just a complete line of crap, only saying it for the benefit of his true prey to drop their guard a bit.
Episode 3: Like you said, he clearly wasn't too traumatized by all of them getting slaughtered on his watch and the last committing suicide, since he just picked up and carried on. I suppose he was a bit more cautious this time, but on the other hand...all of the guild members had warp crystals too, they just got blocked from using them by the trap. So again, nothing really changed there after all. He's no more or less cautious with his party members than he was before. He's just an even higher level.
Episode 2: All in all, it's really not any different from episode 1. He still runs off to do his own thing. He refused the offer to play along as a team member in favor of bum rushing to the quick leveling spots in the first episode, and he did the same thing here. The only difference is he told people that is what he was going to do, instead of slinking off. You can't really call that any sort of character development.
Name anything that's changed from the first episode about Kirito. He's still selfishly running about, taking pride in the fact that he's stronger/smarter than basically anyone else, using limited-release knowledge for his own ends, and occasionally helping noobs, but refusing to put any trust in them. It's been four episodes, it's still the same information you could glean from the first episode.
Here's my problem. The huge amounts of exposition don't even explain major plot elements like whether or not Kirito is lying about having advanced very far in the game during the beta, which is (as far as I can tell) not intended to be ambiguous. You could assume he was telling the truth about his advanced knowledge and then you have to justify his random, pointless lie about only having advanced to floor eight. If you assume he is lying about his advanced knowledge and skill then it raises a whole bunch of other questions. Either way it makes him out to be a weird, lying asshole.
Kirito advanced to the 8th Floor in the beta like he says. There's no reason to lie about that here. The fact that he only managed to break through the first floor in the real SAO with a party means that the beta was significantly different and perhaps harder. He's been on the forefront ever since. He's not necessarily ahead of absolutely everyone else in terms of clearing floors - but he clears the same floors as the lead group (taking care of zones?) by being solo.. so he does the same shit alone while others do it in groups. He's superior.
@Ryll: Kirito hasn't changed overall too much, but it was about him going through phases of experiencing situations where his involvement helps people vs situations where his involvement was detrimental to people. I'll agree that in the end it was pretty much zero-sum.. though perhaps Kirito got a bit more of a confidence boost since the positive case happened later in time.
If it's not Isuzu-chan Mii~
The main problem so far is that the anime is going in chronological order.
Episode 2,3 and 4 are all side stories written after the conclusion of the main story in volume 1. Which mean the author wrote these with the assumption that whoever is reading them already know Kirito from all of the information disclosed in volume 1. These chapters are just meant to offer some more extra information while introducing some side characters.
Most of your complaints about lack of character development mostly stem from the fact that majority of Kirito's development happened in the main storyline (as it should be). It's probably a mistake for the animation studio to decide to have the anime follow a chronological order instead.
With that said, most of your questions will be answered in time so have patience, or just go read the light novel.
It might also help to know that episode 4 in the novel is from the perspective of the girl, so everything that happened was just her takes of the event. It was intended to leave Kirito personality and character as slightly ambiguous.
Last edited by Dark Dragon; Sun, 07-29-2012 at 10:43 PM.
Here's the thing. None of that makes a lick of sense. If the beta was so hard why was the first floor more difficult on live? If he only made it to floor eight, why did he say he was the best player in beta? 8 out of 100 sounds like he sucks ass. The subsequent episodes certainly make it seem like he is aware of hazards on levels much higher than that due to having already completed them on the beta, and he says he knew about the boss's nodachi ability due to having fought enemies with that sword on a much higher level. The only way to explain that is if, like you said, he is off raiding with the top level teams entirely offscreen, which is what I would consider the meat of the story here, not him doddering around getting people killed in the newbie zone.
In fact, it really makes no sense for him to be any good at the game. MMORPGs are fundamentally social games. Games like WoW are extremely easy from the perspective of the amount of skill any given individual has to contribute to his role, and difficult in the sense that you must organize and coordinate efforts among many group members appropriately. It's literally impossible to be any good at it as a lone player. This game clearly requires raid combat to defeat even the simplest floor boss if you're appropriately leveled, so what he is actually doing in the initial episodes is power leveling alone and defeating raid bosses WAY below his level. That doesn't make him any good.
@ Dark Dragon: I don't care how this was presented in the book series. If the chronology was actually important to the development of the cast, it should have been preserved. If it wasn't (and it wasn't, being merely an artifact of how the first book was composed) then the changing plot should have accomodated some character growth instead of just assuming we all read the supplemental materials beforehand.
That's what i was saying.
The chronology IS important for the development of the cast and the animator made this decision without considering this beforehand.
They are adapting the side stories as they were written in the books, without considering that the audience of the anime does not have all of the information that was available to readers of the books when they were at this point in the story.
Just to clarify, i'm pointing out that this is one short-coming with the adaptation. Another is the fact that there is no narrator so there are a lot of important minor details being left out.
Last edited by Dark Dragon; Mon, 07-30-2012 at 11:33 AM.
@Y: SAO isn't WOW.
You actually control your character in the game as if you are moving your own body. Teamwork is important, but individual skill even more so. You don't auto dodge attacks. You have to rely on reaction speed, coordination, and imagination to fight well.
Partying in SAO is not as critical compared to other MMOs because there is no healing magic. The slow working potions can't be used from a distance either. The healing dragon Silica has is an exception, and even then it heals only a scrap of HP. These factors make soloing a viable option for skilled players.
And do you seriously want to fight enemies of the same level in a game where dying means death in reality? It makes sense to maintain a certain level advantage over the content to ensure survival, but not too much that it would be too inefficient. Even then, Kirito is the type to take risks when leveling, since that is the only way to make up for not having a party.
Kirito joined that party because he was lonely. Even if soloing is more his play style, SAO isn't just a game. They eat, sleep, and do everything in it. Soloing basically means being alone all the time, and it is only natural to want to have friends in that scenario.
In this episode, he was there because he wanted to catch the criminals. It's not like he randomly wanders around lower levels. He even mentioned that he was away for 5 days, and that is already way too long. That means he normally fights at the highest available floor every day.
Last edited by shinta|hikari; Mon, 07-30-2012 at 11:48 AM.
Peace.
Not really. Dozens (apparently) of appropriately-leveled characters barely defeated the first floor boss. It would plainly have been impossible for one person, no matter how personally skilled, to do anything - in fact the main combat mechanic displayed in the first three episodes.is a mechanic that requires a party. One person blocks or deflects the boss's attack and then someone else switches in to actually get a hit in on the boss. Naturally Kirito is a master of the usage and timing of this mechanic despite not partying with anyone. Combat is also extremely simple for a multitude of reasons, so once again, individual skill is not a huge contributor to group success.
The obvious choice would be for absolutely everyone to refuse to play the game and wait until the creator is arrested and they're removed from the world, but that would make for a pretty boring show.And do you seriously want to fight enemies of the same level in a game where dying means death in reality? It makes sense to maintain a certain level advantage over the content to ensure survival, but not too much that it would be too inefficient.
I'm not trying to argue that I need more MMORPG tactical realism in the show, mind you. It's just that his character doesn't work at all within the context of the world. He's a loner, but he's the wrong kind of loner to be good at what he's doing, and the show doesn't care enough to make sense of that. He is just the best because he's the main character/
Bosses naturally have to be defeated by groups. The game would be too easy otherwise. Even Kirito joined that group that beat the 1st level boss so obviously he knows it is necessary. Moreover, MMOs aren't all about bosses. Leveling is important as well, and Kirito is apparently really fast at it. He solos when leveling, and joins in when they fight bosses. Makes sense to me.
Kirito is good because he is smart, calm, and just really good at fighting. You completely ignored the fighting aspect in SAO. Combat isn't simple. They aren't pressing a button or mouse clicking when they attack. They do the attacks as if they were in the real world. Positioning, balance, form, all of those matter. Sword skills do have system assist as explained in episode 1, but even that needs to be initiated by movement. Like I said in the previous post, dodging is all manual.
Having a high leveled character but having no skills to use it would result in death. Actually, you would not reach a high level without skill in the first place. I imagine those with martial arts training, especially swordsmanship, would have a great advantage in this game. Kirito trained in Kendo.
Kirito is good at the switch system because he was in the Beta. He naturally had a lot of chances to learn and master it there, maybe even partying up at times.
About refusing to play the game, I bet a lot of people are actually doing just that. I can't imagine thousands of people dealing with their predicament in the same way. There are even murderers after all.
Last edited by shinta|hikari; Mon, 07-30-2012 at 01:29 PM.
Peace.
not reallyThe obvious choice would be for absolutely everyone to refuse to play the game and wait until the creator is arrested and they're removed from the world, but that would make for a pretty boring show.
1. GM is mad (!) no one plays? random pk every 5 minutes
2. someone removes your net-gear in rl if you don't hurry
3. they stop life-support
4. over a year has passed already (must feel awesome to know that over a year has passed and nothing changed)
5. who knows if there is any other way to get out of there? they could just disconnect the whole internet or shut those servers down couldn't they? seems like they can't for some reason, who knows...guess if they do it might fry your brain
6. creator gets arrested and then what?
The only complicated aspect of the combat system is the control interface, i.e. your body. But that isn't the point. The point is this:
The show just badly wields the "loner badass" cliche and nothing you wrote addresses that. You just said "well, he's obviously skilled, so he mastered the group elements of the game offscreen" despite that it makes no sense for the character as presented to us to have done so and he obviously didn't gain any social skills from having done so.He's a loner, but he's the wrong kind of loner to be good at what he's doing, and the show doesn't care enough to make sense of that.
Actually my entire reply was addressing your point.
I simply stated a list of things that made him good despite being a loner. Being a loner and being good are not mutually exclusive, and all I said points to that.
I agree that the show is not explaining things enough, but that does not mean it does not make sense. It just isn't going out of it's way to make things clear, which it should.
Peace.
Maybe the novels explain it differently, but that isn't at all how the series presents itself. Not even remotely.
Kirito explained to noob-master-Klein that skills auto-activate once you think hard enough about them. The "input motion" isn't as if you perform the Crimson-Leaves Strike from "The Book of Five Rings," there was clearly no skill involved. You put your arm in the approximately correct position and it works when you think about it hard enough. This barely registers as Dragon Punch input difficulty.
Klein wasn't exactly skilled at martial combat before. He started Sword Art Online just coming off other MMOs, the regular kind. Once Kirito told him how to do it, he was fine, and now he's one of lead parties. You think either of the two girls knew any manner of martial combat before? Sachi was in a computer club and the other is just some random girl who likes cute things, no reason for her to even try SAO in the first place was given. They didn't have that much difficulty. Sachi was only having trouble because her guild forced her to switch to front-line defender, and given the very real threat of death in that group position, it's understandable. Sachi's friends had no trouble at all pulling off skills.
Knowing Kendo (allegedly) doesn't help Kirito more than giving him a little experience in moving his arms in specific ways to avoid any ambiguity on the skill initial position command. Maybe it makes for pulling off strings of commands faster. Over time, that's the same for anyone with any game in any genre.
Aside from the input method of holding your arm in position or making an upward swing from low (to bat aside the boss' weapon) instead of a horizontal swing (to simply attack) as clearly seen in episode 2, SAO isn't any different from TERA. They use timing here for extra damage, the same way that most MMOs use temporary skill debuffs that combo by other party members' attacks. TERA does that. Guild Wars 2 will be doing that too. The timing is just more precise...and that isn't any different from any console action-RPG where lag isn't an issue.
Last edited by Ryllharu; Mon, 07-30-2012 at 05:28 PM. Reason: editorial corrections
I keep saying that dodging is manual. That means defending is too. Parrying attacks, using shields, all that is manual. Actually, normal attacks are manual too. All of these skills benefit from martial arts training, which improves reflexes, and coordination. Knowing Kendo in particular is a big advantage, since you know how to parry, block and strike using a sword from the get go.
The only time system assist kicks in is if the weapon is shining blue. That was clear in episode 1, when Kirito was explaining to Klein how to use sword skills.
You don't need to know martial arts to play SAO, but knowing it gives you an edge.
Last edited by shinta|hikari; Mon, 07-30-2012 at 06:00 PM.
Peace.
No, you're pulling advanced knowledge from the novels. At no point has the series ever expanded on how combat works. And TERA has manual dodging (and/or dodge skills) too. Nothing special here.
Kirito and Klein in episode 1 implied there are skills for everything. That includes blocking skills. There's a clear difference between skills and special attacks. Kirito explained that both his Listening and Detection skills were quite strong (unusual for many players), which is why he was able to notice the evil guild members. Those are passive skills, and don't rely on his real life abilities at all.
Try convincing me again without using info from the novels.
I didn't use novel info. The avatar moves in accordance to how the person moves. That means blocking or dodging an attack means actually blocking or dodging an attack. That's all there is to it. There may or may not be blocking skills, but you don't even need those if you can do it manually.
Also, you are severely mistaken if you think dodging an attack in real life (which is the whole point of the NERV gear thing - full motion capture) and dodging it in TERA are the same thing.
Peace.
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