Movie: Prometheus

[Animeniax]

Wow it's really weird how Kraco and I are obviously proposing the same idea - that as a direct, practical thinker the captain of the ship would immediately guess at a military purpose for the installation and then present his theory as fact - but when Kraco posts it, you find it plausible and confess that your distate for the scene mainly lies in finding his personality and background suspect. When I post it, in a near-identical formulation, suddenly his behavior is just "poor writing" and I'm "reading too much into it" and you seize upon minutiae to falsely dispute - in the same post, no less! Maybe in the future instead of obviously posting your replies based on who you're replying to, you could make them in two consecutive posts to disguise your naked trolling and lack of interest in any sincere discussion, on such a pithy subject as a movie no less.

Where Kraco tries to explain his mentality, which would be understandable as the ship's captain and because people are full of shit, you try to justify with unsupported claims about his military background. It's possible Kraco's explanation is correct, and it's just as possible it's shitty writing. Your explanation is out in left field.

They could have done so much as far as story to lead up to someone explaining the purpose of the planet for the viewers. They got lazy and made Janek explain it just as a plot point. That's what makes me upset about the movie.

[Y]

Where Kraco tries to explain his mentality, which would be understandable as the ship's captain and because people are full of shit, you try to justify with unsupported claims about his military background. It's possible Kraco's explanation is correct, and it's just as possible it's shitty writing. Your explanation is out in left field.

They could have done so much as far as story to lead up to someone explaining the purpose of the planet for the viewers. They got lazy and made Janek explain it just as a plot point. That's what makes me upset about the movie.

Thanks for this reply to my post. The discussion wasn't complete without a reply such as this. After reading the whole thread and then this post, I realized what the thread was missing was a post just like this.

[Animeniax]

Thanks for this reply to my post. The discussion wasn't complete without a reply such as this. After reading the whole thread and then this post, I realized what the thread was missing was a post just like this.

Wow you really hate to lose an argument don't you.

edit: you do understand, don't you, that when you go back and edit older posts once you've sobered up or reconciled any bitchy feelings, your revisions are often missed. Maybe think before you post and you won't have to do edit.

[Kraco]

With your experience, did you discern the engineer's purpose on the planet? Or did you have to wait for Janek to explain it like the rest of us?

Well, I can't recall anymore what I thought back then, but probably I didn't think it a military installation. But it's not like I'd be particularly military-minded. I have only spent about a year of my life in the military. Such a time doesn't really reform a person through and through unless you are a real military fan.

Besides, I don't think that much during movies. Maybe I should, but as it is, I just sit and let it flow in, evoking feelings.

[Y]

Wow you really hate to lose an argument don't you.

edit: you do understand, don't you, that when you go back and edit older posts once you've sobered up or reconciled any bitchy feelings, your revisions are often missed. Maybe think before you post and you won't have to do edit.

I don't think you're very good at reading posts if you think we've been having a discussion, that my edits softened up my posts, or that the edits are directed at you.

[Animeniax]

Well, I can't recall anymore what I thought back then, but probably I didn't think it a military installation. But it's not like I'd be particularly military-minded. I have only spent about a year of my life in the military. Such a time doesn't really reform a person through and through unless you are a real military fan.

Besides, I don't think that much during movies. Maybe I should, but as it is, I just sit and let it flow in, evoking feelings.

I also don't have any real military experience and yet I'm somewhat military-minded and there just isn't enough information to make a military decision as to the circumstances on LV-223. I'm just incredibly annoyed at how the team investigated about 5% of the entire planet, then Holloway decided the mission was a bust and Janek guessed at the purpose of the planet and got it pretty much right. I know people jump to conclusions and make hasty decisions, but I think in the case of the movie it was more poor writing than anything.

Sorry for double post.

I don't think you're very good at reading posts if you think we've been having a discussion, that my edits softened up my posts, or that the edits are directed at you.

Actually I'm sure you do it so you seem like less of an ass. Someone reading my reply to your original post will have read your edited post (assuming they read posts in sequence) and then assumed I was wrong or being unpleasant. Sneaky you.

[Y]

Well, I can't recall anymore what I thought back then, but probably I didn't think it a military installation. But it's not like I'd be particularly military-minded. I have only spent about a year of my life in the military. Such a time doesn't really reform a person through and through unless you are a real military fan.

The point of the scene isn't that Idris Elba magically knows the purpose of the installation, of course. It's bizarre that anyone could get that out of that scene. This is a movie that is explicitly about the search for answers, for deeper meaning in life, and that scene's setting up the mindset of men like the captain - he's a leader of men, so his theories become fact when presented to his subordinates and crew, and he's a practical, direct thinker (a military man, although him literally being in the military has less than zero bearing on the scene, as the characters are cipher and symbology) so his first theory about the alien facility is practical and direct. Both in the text of the film and in a broader metaphorical scope the captain is working out his inadequacies - in the film, the captain is made inessential by Vickers who makes all the real decisions, and so he is trying to control the situation around him by turning his speculation into fact, the way that leaders of men have a tendency to do.

Sorry for double post.


Actually I'm sure you do it so you seem like less of an ass. Someone reading my reply to your original post will have read your edited post (assuming they read posts in sequence) and then assumed I was wrong or being unpleasant. Sneaky you.

Like all of your other posts, this one is wrong too.

[TwisT]

I don't wanna interrupt your gentleman's conversation, but i must agree with Ani about the "old sea dog" thingy. I have no idea if it really as anything with the military to do, but when i hear that term i directly associate it with a person that has spent a big part of his life at sea, be it military ship captain, a deck-scrub on an old pirate ship, a fisherman on a fishing vessel or just some grunt on a cargo vessel or oil tanker. Only requirement in my mind for such a "title" or nickname is that the person is a little older (at last 40-45) and has spent most of his adult life at sea.

As for all the other things you discuss (probably the things that actually matter when discussing the movie) i don't really care. Even though i agree that there was holes in the movie and it could have been better i still think it was a great movie. There ain't that many Sci-Fi movies about spacetravel/other planets/terrifying alien lifeforms being made, so when there is one that is enjoyable i don't wanna over analyse it to find every little flaw so i will never enjoy it again.

[Y]

As for all the other things you discuss (probably the things that actually matter when discussing the movie) i don't really care.

Well, you said it, not me.

[Animeniax]

The point of the scene isn't that Idris Elba magically knows the purpose of the installation, of course. It's bizarre that anyone could get that out of that scene... blah blah blah.

Like all of your other posts, this one is wrong too.

Talk about reading too much into a scene/character. Your discerning all of that from the 5-10 minutes of screen time for Capt Janek rivals the preposterousness of Janek's assertion of the purpose of the planet. Both are full of shit. I guess you consider yourself a leader of men, maybe even a military man.

As for all the other things you discuss (probably the things that actually matter when discussing the movie) i don't really care. Even though i agree that there was holes in the movie and it could have been better i still think it was a great movie. There ain't that many Sci-Fi movies about spacetravel/other planets/terrifying alien lifeforms being made, so when there is one that is enjoyable i don't wanna over analyse it to find every little flaw so i will never enjoy it again.

That was my hope for this movie, that it would be the start of a great franchise. But the more I consider the story and plot holes, the more I read about the movie, the more I read others with similar criticisms as mine. I think the big problem is the movie tried to do too much and be too convoluted. For a movie that tries to make you think, it does a poor job when you think about it.

Look back at Alien and Aliens. They were rather simple stories that didn't aspire to be too much, and they ended up being some of the best.

[Y]

Talk about reading too much into a scene/character. Your discerning all of that from the 5-10 minutes of screen time for Capt Janek rivals the preposterousness of Janek's assertion of the purpose of the planet. Both are full of shit. I guess you consider yourself a leader of men, maybe even a military man.

Hey. Dumbass. I guess you missed the implications of my post on the previous page where I pointed out that you agreed with Kraco when he presented the exact same idea. Here's what it means: you're a retard troll and you're full of shit. Stop posting.

[Animeniax]

Hey. Dumbass. I guess you missed the implications of my post on the previous page where I pointed out that you agreed with Kraco when he presented the exact same idea. Here's what it means: you're a retard troll and you're full of shit. Stop posting.

No, I entertained his idea as being a valid possibility because he presented it as that: an idea. Meanwhile you present many of your ideas like they are an obvious certainty, particularly the part about him being "a serious-minded military guy," which I have since debunked for the most part. Janek and his crew hardly seemed like serious people in the movie.

It's all about the delivery.

edit: and just to disprove any catty calls about differential treatment, here's a criticism of something Kraco posted:

What comes to the other people, I think I mentioned it before, but it's obvious they are shady dregs, all of them. None of them are from anywhere near the top of their field. Because decent or better scientists wouldn't have agreed to a possible suicide mission using experimental technology, with no briefings or data whatsoever available beforehand. Only people with nothing to lose would agree to this kind of a trip. So, it's useless to expect them to behave like your famous professors with hundreds of peer-reviewed publications.

That's arguable but this is a trillion dollar mission. Scientists come in all different types, from the crappy ones to the single-minded extremely dedicated ones. I think it's fair to say Shaw and Holloway are the dedicated ones, having devoted significant time and effort to excavations on Earth and now to travel to another star system to find their answers.

You could argue Fifield the idiot geologist and Milburn the idiot biologist are substandard scientists, but that's a bit of a stretch to explain how Fifield gets them lost in the ruins and Milburn tries to pet an unknown alien snake species. Even the shittiest scientists in their fields should be able to avoid such pitfalls.

[Shadow Skill]

Ok enough of the Sailormoon and Tuxedo mask talk. I don't care whether he was a military or some lonely guy on a naval ship filled with 15,000 other lonely guys.

I always assumed they had radars or xray scanners or something other type of scanner that scanned the planet they were in orbit around. Does it say how long they were in orbit? I imagine long enough to get a detail observation for the captain to come to that conclusions.

The Jesus thing... not sure where people get the idea he is black. We have neither proof he was black. His parents were clearly from that Nazareth area, which is your typic middle eastern, slightly darker skin with beards and what not. From the area his parents come from and the people who live in that area today (Same people) are not black.

So I am inclined to not believe that. Not that skin colour should play a role here. I am not racist. Just my opinion based on facts.

I am glad they didnt draw parallels to Jesus. That would have made the movie terrible.

[Kraco]

That's arguable but this is a trillion dollar mission. Scientists come in all different types, from the crappy ones to the single-minded extremely dedicated ones. I think it's fair to say Shaw and Holloway are the dedicated ones, having devoted significant time and effort to excavations on Earth and now to travel to another star system to find their answers.

Weren't Shaw and Holloway the only people, aside from the billionaire funder himself (and his jealous daughter) the only ones who knew anything at all? So, they can be counted out of what I said. The rest knew nothing. Now, that's precisely the important point. IF the others had been told something of what the mission is all about, you'd expect some really adventurous and daring scientists of actual fame might have signed in. But if you just tell them: "I'm the richest man in the world (and look like a fucking mummy from Egypt) and I have decided you will accomppany me on a mission I can't tell you anything about, and I expect few of us will survive even the flight!" who the hell would agree to hop aboard? Only somebody who's running from loan sharks and is tired of his life... I reckon you'd find that type more among the less gifted than the better portion of scientists. And from the looks of it, Weyland didn't bother searching too hard.

[Animeniax]

Ok enough of the Sailormoon and Tuxedo mask talk. I don't care whether he was a military or some lonely guy on a naval ship filled with 15,000 other lonely guys.

I always assumed they had radars or xray scanners or something other type of scanner that scanned the planet they were in orbit around. Does it say how long they were in orbit? I imagine long enough to get a detail observation for the captain to come to that conclusions.

The Jesus thing... not sure where people get the idea he is black. We have neither proof he was black. His parents were clearly from that Nazareth area, which is your typic middle eastern, slightly darker skin with beards and what not. From the area his parents come from and the people who live in that area today (Same people) are not black.

So I am inclined to not believe that. Not that skin colour should play a role here. I am not racist. Just my opinion based on facts.

I am glad they didnt draw parallels to Jesus. That would have made the movie terrible.

Recall they chose a landing spot based on Holloway's assertion that the structure he saw wasn't natural, that "God doesn't build in straight lines," not any greater scientific calculation. They did scan the planet for atmospheric gases and heat sources along the few miles they flew over before landing. It still wouldn't give the Captain enough information to make such a definitive guess as to the purpose of the planet.

I think people suggest He's black just because the popular conception that he is European white is preposterous. Most likely He's Arab/Persian brown. They didn't bring up the Jesus angle in the movie and they most likely never will. I think it's just the director feeding the overactive imaginations of his fans.

Weren't Shaw and Holloway the only people, aside from the billionaire funder himself (and his jealous daughter) the only ones who knew anything at all? So, they can be counted out of what I said. The rest knew nothing. Now, that's precisely the important point. IF the others had been told something of what the mission is all about, you'd expect some really adventurous and daring scientists of actual fame might have signed in. But if you just tell them: "I'm the richest man in the world (and look like a fucking mummy from Egypt) and I have decided you will accomppany me on a mission I can't tell you anything about, and I expect few of us will survive even the flight!" who the hell would agree to hop aboard? Only somebody who's running from loan sharks and is tired of his life... I reckon you'd find that type more among the less gifted than the better portion of scientists. And from the looks of it, Weyland didn't bother searching too hard.

They made it clear the ship crew didn't know the mission beside ferrying their cargo to a far off destination (hence the bet). They didn't really say how much the science crew knew about the mission except Fifield congratulates Shaw on meeting her maker. I don't see that it was a suicide mission. They went to meet their makers, who they didn't expect would be out to kill them, else why create them in the first place? I think that was one of the concepts of the movie, hence Shaw's line "we were so wrong."

Even if the scientists had no idea of the purpose of the mission, and even if they are some of the dumbest people in the science community, it doesn't explain their behavior in the ruins. A geologist gets lost running down what's basically a one way tunnel, and a biologist tries to pet an unknown alien species. These actions are ridiculous even for non-science folks.

[Kraco]

Even if the scientists had no idea of the purpose of the mission, and even if they are some of the dumbest people in the science community, it doesn't explain their behavior in the ruins. A geologist gets lost running down what's basically a one way tunnel, and a biologist tries to pet an unknown alien species. These actions are ridiculous even for non-science folks.

Perhaps, perhaps not. If you look at humanity at large, most of it is made of fools and cowards. A coward wouldn't have ever boarded the space ship, so they were left with non-cowards. And fools.

You have a much better opinion of humans than I do. And let's not forget Weyland was a megalomaniac yearning for immortality, so it's not like he'd have hired too bright people who could have snatched the candy from his feeble hands. He couldn't trust even his own daughter (for a reason, but that was entirely his own fault).

[Animeniax]

Perhaps, perhaps not. If you look at humanity at large, most of it is made of fools and cowards. A coward wouldn't have ever boarded the space ship, so they were left with non-cowards. And fools.

You have a much better opinion of humans than I do. And let's not forget Weyland was a megalomaniac yearning for immortality, so it's not like he'd have hired too bright people who could have snatched the candy from his feeble hands. He couldn't trust even his own daughter (for a reason, but that was entirely his own fault).

Actually I think I have a very poor opinion of humans, which means either you have an abysmal opinion of us or you're mistaken. I think in the end a lot of the silliness that I'm upset about can be chalked up to panic. Fifield and Milburn may just have been panicking when they left the group in the ruins and gotten lost.

I've read criticism that Vickers' death was dumb because she ran in a straight line and the ship rolled over her. I thought it was a pretty dumb ending for her too, but really we could say she acted foolishly in a stressful situation. It's easy for us to watch and think she should be smart enough to run to the side, but we're not in a life-death situation such as hers so it's easy for us to think it through whereas she doesn't have that luxury.

[Kraco]

I've read criticism that Vickers' death was dumb because she ran in a straight line and the ship rolled over her. I thought it was a pretty dumb ending for her too, but really we could say she acted foolishly in a stressful situation. It's easy for us to watch and think she should be smart enough to run to the side, but we're not in a life-death situation such as hers so it's easy for us to think it through whereas she doesn't have that luxury.

Haha. Running directly ahead and not to the side when something moving strictly linearly is chasing you has happened in ten thousand movies and tv series, at least. There has to be some psychological truth lingering behind that behavior, because as insanely stupid as it looks to the audience, it still keeps appearing in fiction time after time.

[Animeniax]

Found this in a Cracked.com article about the most overused movie tropes:

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