I will. You don't think Oda could possibly anticipate that a yonkou with no devil's fruit ability could hope to contend with fruit users without some sort of ability like Haki?Originally Posted by Archangel
I will. You don't think Oda could possibly anticipate that a yonkou with no devil's fruit ability could hope to contend with fruit users without some sort of ability like Haki?
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
I don't think he'd even come up with the Yonkou at that point, Shanks was just a badass leaving behind a legacy for Luffy to follow.
The glare was also in the prototype by the way, you're deluded to think Oda thought that far ahead. I don't think it takes anything away from him as an author though, if anything it's impressive how he thought of something like this so far ahead and still made it fit so neatly into the story.
I remember back in the day when One Piece had its own forum. Ahh, the good old days.
You can't contain One Piece's awesomeness to a single subforum.
I dont think its unfair to give Oda credit for predicting anything from the very beginning. Remember, he had Reilay's (sp?) design all the way back from chapter 13. And he didnt pull it out of his ass, I remember when reading Onepiece the first time through why the captain of the ship didnt look like Gol D Roger in chapter 13.
Back on topic, I know its been brought up, but how the hell is the 1st the strongest shinobi when the 3rd took on him, his brother, and Orochimaru at the same time at the age of 80?
I would venture to guess, that he didn't use the Tail beasts. The Third was not only a master of many techniques but a great tactician. The third was raised and trained by both the 1st and 2nd, therefore he would know their strengths and weaknesses.
Orochimaru Edo-tensai wasn't as powerful and Kishimoto is just pulling shit out of his ass to make it all seem somewhat interesting.
___---------------------------- "THE DROPOUT CREW"--------------------------------________Deblas, IfingHateTonTon, RyougaZell, dragonrage.________
________ we may fuck up alot but we always pull thru.
This can be explained in many ways. First of all like in the post above mine it is worth nothing that the edo resurrection jutsu was far less superior back when it was used to summon the 1st. This is probably the canon way to explain this question however the two more or more so one more obvious reason is simply because at that time Kishimoto and the series in general was not ready for that high-end of a battle. I don't even think Kishimoto knew just how strong some Ninja had to be. As naruto and everyone else developed there abilities and battles became more intense sooner or later some of the old battles seem to be like almost nothing in comparison and often there are reasons why like the characters being very old, perhaps not trying there hardest or simply jutsu and other things improving.
One other interesting factor I would like to talk about is how most of the revived Ninja who already got a fair bit of screen time before have very short fights now. Because Kishimoto has already showed off what they can do and does not need to waste time on them anymore and they don't have anything to add to the story. So many of the revived seemed so much weaker often dropping in 1-2 chapters at most. Even in fights were they normally would have won easily or lasted a lot longer. The whole having feelings and turning to stone thing was probably not just thrown in there to make sure the fights went quicker but I bet that was part of the reason. And the "grand" rule of all jutsu needing a weakness demanded there be some form of weakness to the jutsu.
So while some of us look at Kishimoto as a master or can see many plot holes remember that Naruto is simply a manga written by one person. So a lot of things like how kakashi used to faint after battles and now he can fight endlessly you can say thats from development and training which is it and has to be to make sense. However fights in general are more intense and last longer so kakashi's battle endurance had to be changed completely unless he would no longer be an active character in naruto. Actually the whole out of Chakra plot element has seemed to vanish almost totally? This does not mean I forgive plot holes or don't try to find reasons for how things are in naruto besides just saying it's how the manga has changed but a lot of things directly relate to this. The moment I saw all those resurrected Ninja I instantly knew we were going to see many short battles and I was correct. I knew Kishimoto was not going to do 100+ chapters of battles with characters who already had there own battle arcs.
Last edited by viperwasp; Fri, 03-02-2012 at 03:25 AM.
He had a character design... and then he reused it. You guys are such fanboys, geez >_>
Lol here I was thinking that Naruto got out of hands from Kishimoto but thanks to you I did a bit of research on OP and have to say that its worse than Naruto in that sense. They should use it as a new expression for what lies beyond: shounen-escalation-madness.
Itachi is going to "rest" thanks to Sasuke and I doubt they will force Kabutoru to dispel Edo Tensei even if they defeat him, something that I doubt cause im sure Sasuke has inside of him some fail safe from Orochimaru. Also I get the feeling that Tsunade is leaving us soon.
The path of excess leads to the tower of wisdom
Well, aren´t you nice, Archangel :/
@topic:
I found viperwasp´s posting makes an interesting point: Basically, at what point did Kishimoto decide to change the scale of ninja battles in the Naruto-series. Personally, I think he wrote himself into a corner when he hyped Pain as the "undefeated" uber member of Akatski. Prior to that, we got to witness Shikamaru beating Hidan in a 100% ninja-like way, and even Kakuzu took a whole group of main characters and a silly "shit, I underestimated this boy"-scene to be killed.
And then came Sage mode Naruto.
There simply wasn´t a chance to go back from there. You´d either have this manga be a complete one-man-show from there, or give other people new powers, even at the cost of plot consistency and inner believability.
Well, and then power levels and power balance got screwed over completely. We got all these legendary resurrected ninjas that even the new all-powerful Kyuubi cloak Naruto had troubles with. While Naruto was nerfed yet again, his comrades got upgrades to keep up with these monsters.
To conclude, I´d agree that Orochimaru´s Edo Tensei was never supposed to be some kind of gimped Edo Tensei. It was the real thing, and why not? It was impressive and creepy, befitting of a villain. Tbh, I´m still waiting for a proper explanation of Kabuto´s Edo Tensei´s mechanics. It just doesn´t make sense that this jutsu will continue even after his death, and it also doesn´t make sense how Kabuto could muster all the chakra for the revival of so many ninjas. There has to be some kind of trick to it. I definitely would prefer if Kabuto somehow linked the Juubi´s chakra to his Edo Tensei, thus making it infinte. Would be better than some "well duh"-explanation.
@OP:
I didn´t even mind Haki being reconned so much as it being completely out of line with the whole series´ setup. You have this awesome concept of devil fruits that grant all kinds of crazy powers, and then, 10000 years into the manga, you think it´s necessary to introduce, well duh, magic? It was silly, plain as that.
If we weren't talking about one piece, then we'd have to talk about naruto. Who wants to do that?
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
Actually he could have spent the time performing the jutsu to gain his army then once they were set, all were just waiting in their coffins to be used. Also if he dies, he would probably lose control, so Asuma and people like that would stop while others would continue on their rampage.
Tsunade should have been gone after the Pein fight. She is such a worthless character and has no real abilities. Worst kage of all time. What does she do besides punch stuff and heal stuff? And she hasn't even punched anything since Orochimaru, as far as I can recall.
Have you watched or read One Piece before making this statement?
Also if you want to have a discussion about One Piece there is a forum dedicated to it and I am sure people will be more than happy to have a discussion with you.
On topic, Forgoing all the plot holes and ridiculousness of Naruto power and skill structure. What happens if the edo-tensai and Kabutoru is out of the picture, Tobi against the world? Or is Kabutoru and Itachi going to mutually destroy eachother leaving Madara (really hope that does happen because Itachi is one of the only true badass characters left). Kishimoto is writing himself into another corner I think.
___---------------------------- "THE DROPOUT CREW"--------------------------------________Deblas, IfingHateTonTon, RyougaZell, dragonrage.________
________ we may fuck up alot but we always pull thru.
.....yeah pretty much. Maybe its just another sexist plot point that will prove that all the eefective hokage are men.
Since the theme is One Piece on this Naruto Forum? Whatever... I don't see Haki as a problem... I just don't I knew there had to be something about the more stronger characters and it did not just come out of no were. I have a feeling it was thought about a while back and I have a feeling that even since near the beginning odo at least he knew there was going to be something special. But if anything I like how it took so long for it to be directly announced and I hope it never becomes a mainstream thing that EVERYONE at a higher level has or uses.
But lets talk about NARUTO for one last moment I don't think this series is heading in the wrong direction at least not yet. And the big post I made about how a lot of things in this series are because of the way things have changed in the series thats normal for just about every long going series. Bleach is about the worst in my opinion for weird writing and constant writing into corners.
Just thinking about it, isn't it stupid for Madara to call this fight a mere game compared to his battle with Hashirama? If he didn't have hax undead jutsu mode, he would be dead right now as old man Tsuchikage one shotted him and his Mokuton technique.
I was thinking that myself. Also, I hope the 1st inside of Madara does not become sentient and recognize his granddaughter, thus negating the edo tansei on him and Madara. That would be so anticlimactic.
He can't do, as wouldn't that require his soul which is locked up by the Shiki Fuujin? You have that other Hashirama clone that Tobi used to create the Zetsu army as well which isn't sentient so I think he will just remain a lump of flesh.
Come to think of it, why hasn't anyone tried cloning Madara?
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