Beating Children/Spanking

[Sapphire]

Holy FUCKING shit.

2004: Aransas County Court-At-Law Judge William Adams took a belt to his own teenage daughter as punishment for using the internet to acquire music and games that were unavailable for legal purchase at the time. She has had ataxic cerebral palsy from birth that led her to a passion for technology, which was strictly forbidden by her father's backwards views. The judge's wife was emotionally abused herself and was severely manipulated into assisting the beating and should not be blamed for any content in this video. The judge's wife has since left the marriage due to the abuse, which continues to this day, and has sincerely apologized and repented for her part and for allowing such a thing, long before this video was even revealed to exist. Judge William Adams is not fit to be anywhere near the law system if he can't even exercise fit judgement as a parent himself. Do not allow this man to ever be re-elected again. His "judgement" is a giant farce. Signed, Hillary Adams, his daughter.

[Sapphire]

More parents beating the shit out of their children in the 90s:

[Assertn]

Decided to actually take a look at this silly thread. Watched this video:

More parents beating the shit out of their children in the 90s:

...afterwards I felt more inclined to side with with the parents that discipline over the psychologists. Did you watch the video? The parents even tried to give timeouts instead of spanking, and the kids would openly challenge them. It's easy to sit here and be an armchair parent, but honestly I wouldn't have any better advice for the parents. Kids do this. They make it into a game to see how far they can push you and what they can get away with.

Additionally, it's ridiculous to associate spanking with beating the living shit out of a child. Like someone said before in this thread, spankings aren't meant to inflict pain, they're meant to shock or embarrass the child. I've never been hit by a belt by my parents, but I've been threatened with it, and I knew from spankings that it's a possible occurrence, so I stop being a dick. Worked on me.

Anyway, spanking is just a form of conditioning, and its silly to compare conditioning a child to conditioning an adult. A 2 year old is definitely capable of learned behavior from conditioning, regardless of whether or not he/she has the memory capacity. (You can condition behavior in rodents, for christ's sake.)

Edit:

-Kid gangbangs
-Uncle sees
-Son, I need to talk to you, gangbanging is dangerous, please take care of your life
-Kid denies it
-Uncle keeps talking compassionately until a dialogue opens
-Kid stops gangbanging because he's reasoned out in his head due to talking to a functional reseoning adult
-Kid is alive now

Uncle: Son, gangs are bad. Don't consort with gangs or you might die.
Kid: Holy shit! I had no idea there could be consequences with being affiliated with violent organizations. Thank you for showing me the light, uncle!

[Psyke]

My daughter Rena just turned 3 last month.

While I don't like to encourage using the cane to discipline children, it sometimes seems inevitable, and perhaps more efficient to do so. A large part comes from the culture as well. Asian countries tend to rely on the rod much more freely, as discipline and regimentation still forms the base of the education system.

And personal experience plays a part too. My parents used to cane me, and in hindsight everything worked out fine. I stayed out of trouble, and didn't lose the values taught to me. This thinking also paved the way for me to use a disciplinarian approach when I need to teach Rena.

Granted, I don't like it but the entire process must not just end there. It's harder with the younger ones, but at 3, Rena can understand the rationale of why we need to correct her. If she can understand, for e.g. why it's harzardous to play with electrical switches, there isn't a need to resort to using the cane. If not, the interim "solution" would be to use pain as a demotivator.

I have peers who strongly believe in not using force on children. While I believe it can work, it's still very difficult and depends heavily on the family's background and culture.

[XanBcoo]

It's easy to sit here and be an armchair parent, but honestly I wouldn't have any better advice for the parents. Kids do this. They make it into a game to see how far they can push you and what they can get away with.

Please describe your experience with children that gives you clearer insight than "armchair parents" (read: actual parents who choose not to hit their children or professionals who deal with troubled children on a daily basis)

Uncle: Son, gangs are bad. Don't consort with gangs or you might die.
Kid: Holy shit! I had no idea there could be consequences with being affiliated with violent organizations. Thank you for showing me the light, uncle!

More realistic situation
Uncle: Son, I TOUGHT YOU BETTER THAN THIS (no actual teaching done, aside from whippings when the kid does something the parent doesn't like)
Kid: *Dies as a result of his actions and publicly humiliated on the internet*

And to deal with the numerous "it worked on me" posts that have shown up or will show up: I was never punished physically and it worked on me. It's a silly argument and should be left out of the discussion.

[Assertn]

Please describe your experience with children that gives you clearer insight than "armchair parents" (read: actual parents who choose not to hit their children or professionals who deal with troubled children on a daily basis)

I did. With this:

Decided to actually take a look at this silly thread.

Since I don't have any meaningful experience (along with 90% of the other posters in this thread, I choose not to give opinions on how children need to be raised. Instead, I go with the skeptical empiricism position, and explain how its uninformed to pretend to know a blanket approach will work with all child-rearing situations.

More realistic situation
Uncle: Son, I TOUGHT YOU BETTER THAN THIS (no actual teaching done, aside from whippings when the kid does something the parent doesn't like)
Kid: *Dies as a result of his actions and publicly humiliated on the internet*

In all honesty, there really isn't a way to discipline a 16 year old into not being involved in the corrupt underbelly of society. It would probably come down to what caused him to go that route in the first place (maybe he didn't feel loved by his family?), and then confront it.

[XanBcoo]

Since I don't have any meaningful experience (along with 90% of the other posters in this thread, I choose not to give opinions on how children need to be raised. Instead, I go with the skeptical empiricism position, and explain how its uninformed to pretend to know a blanket approach will work with all child-rearing situations.

What part of the numerous studies on child behavior coming from people who work with troubled children on a daily basis isn't empirical?

In all honesty, there really isn't a way to discipline a 16 year old into not being involved in the corrupt underbelly of society. It would probably come down to what caused him to go that route in the first place (maybe he didn't feel loved by his family?), and then confront it.

Possibly because they were whipping him on camera?

[Animeniax]

And to deal with the numerous "it worked on me" posts that have shown up or will show up: I was never punished physically and it worked on me. It's a silly argument and should be left out of the discussion.

Well the main argument in this thread is that corporal punishment is all bad, so their evidence that corporal punishment didn't warp them does matter, more so than claims that other forms of discipline also work, which is not in dispute.

[Y]

Decided to actually take a look at this silly thread.

This is what my serious posts have earned. Lord, lord, why hast thou forsaken me!

[XanBcoo]

It really angers me that so many of society's problems are blamed on "people not hittin they kids enough"

Half of the teachers at my school go on about it and I have to bite my tongue because apparently you're a bleeding heart wingnut liberal if you don't agree with taking your anger out violently on a human being one fourth your size.

[Animeniax]

I still believe in paddling/belt lashing as a form of discipline. Time-outs just don't work to get the kid's attention.

Also, I think we need more cartoons like G.I. Joe with their moral message at the end of each episode. Now you know... and knowing is half the battle!

Or we need mandatory military service.

[Sapphire]

You underestimate children.

[darkshadow]

A spanking still works better than stupid time-outs or trying to reason with a kid; heck animals even listen better than some of these devil children.

[Sapphire]

If you've been beating your child since the age of 2 and they're still that unruly at 6, obviously beating isn't working.

[darkshadow]

Beating is very different from spanking, beating a 2 year old will either get them hospitalised or leave marks and bruises that will have them taken away from you. But yeah if you "beat" a 2 year old and they're still unruly at 6, nothing else would've helped aside some sort of therapy.

[Sapphire]

There is no difference between beating and spanking.

[darkshadow]

beat, beat·en or beat, beat·ing, noun, adjective


verb (used with object)
1.
to strike violently or forcefully and repeatedly.

spank
1    [spangk] Show IPA

verb (used with object)
1.
to strike (a person, usually a child) with the open hand, a slipper, etc., especially on the buttocks, as in punishment.

It's very different.

[Sapphire]

You just wrote the same thing twice. Beating "with a reason" is still beating.

[darkshadow]

uhh no, spanking very clearly defines the state of the hand and the target, beating could be anything from clenched fist to a baseball bat targeting anything.
Something is no longer a spank if it doesn't produce the sharp resounding sound of a spank.

[Animeniax]

There's a big difference between the beating and spanking, as evidenced by ds's dictionary entries.

I don't think spanking should be done with something like a wire. And it shouldn't (like most things) be done out of anger. It should be used to teach and discipline.