That's a shit list, Oro didn't have his Hokage duo with him when he fought Sasuke. Oh, and he was half dead.
Not that i'm contesting that power levels are fucked up, i'm just sayin that particular list you came up with sucks.
That's a shit list, Oro didn't have his Hokage duo with him when he fought Sasuke. Oh, and he was half dead.
Not that i'm contesting that power levels are fucked up, i'm just sayin that particular list you came up with sucks.
OK I agree armless Oro isn't the same as normal Oro but 3rd can't be greater than 1st two put together in his old age
If anything, itīs impressive that armless-Orochimaru could fight Kyuubi-Naruto Lv. 4.
More like:
Young 3rd >>>>> God > Old 3rd with staff > 1st + 2nd + oro
They did call him like the "god of shinobi" or something didn't they? He was said to be the most powerful Hokage Konoha ever had in his prime and the most powerful of all of the 5 kages
Sarutobi was the professor who knew every ninja technique in the village(knowledge of all the techs not the ability to wield them) the 4th was reputed to be the strongest ninja konoha ever produced. Even after the 4th passed the 3rd reclaimed his title as hokage which speaks volumes of how badass he already was. I mean there were plenty of promising ninja who were young and talented like the sannin.
Actually, Madara died, and we know he died for real because he was brought back by edo tensei. Actually, we really don't know jack shit but lets just go with that for a second. What that means, is that Madara likely did meet true death at the hands of the first in a duel to the death. Then the third kicked the first's ass and the second's at the same time. He did it as old geezer too. And Orochimaru was there at the time. Archie's got the right of it.Originally Posted by DB_Hunter
"You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. Your are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it, your time has come. This time you will stand alone and fight for yourselves. Now you will pay for your freedom in the currency of honest toil and human blood."
- Inquisitor Czevak
^ This. Otherwise it's a combination of two time-space jutsu, something like summoning and a yellow flash/tobi teleport. That being said, the combo time-space jutsu is entirely more badass and would make up for the fact that fucking Madara needs the rinnegan to handle anyone in this fight, Naruto included.
Agreed. It does demean Madara's legend if he needs the Rinnegan now. He should be able to swat away all the fighters on the ground with no troubles, using the Sharingan without even activating MS/EMS.
I assume though Madara's Susanoo is two-faced as he has EMS i.e. his brother's Susanoo merged with his own?
Also, if we assume Tobi isn't Madara in any way, shape or form then I wonder how Madara will take the news of this weird masked guy being behind the massacre of his clan?
Implying this whole clusterfuck hasn't been a genjutsu ever since the zombies showed up. Lol, did you guys actually believe Kishimoto was that bad a writer?
Well, I did want to ask how Kabutoro had enough chakra for all this, but then I remembered that you're trolling because Kishimoto is indeed a terrible writer. Afterwards, I ate an apple.
Also, has anyone noticed that Naruto has been seriously ownage for like 100 chapters? What the fuck? I'm the kind of bitter fan who thought the only great Naruto arc ever was Wave Country. And yet, somehow, the resolution of the Sasuke/Itachi plot and everything forward has been some seriously entertaining shit.
2.5/10 you had me going for about 4 seconds.
Especially if you consider that he wasn`t armless at all.
You cannot hope to build a better world without improving the individuals. To that end each of us must work for his own improvement, and at the same time share a general responsibility for all humanity, our particular duty being to aid those to whom we think we can be most useful. -Marie Curie
Yes... However I did notice this at first but it still shocks me... The dual Susanoo seal is fairly extreme there is a small part of me that thinks it may not be a genjutsu. But if so the move is way to imba. But it seems like a jutsu that needs Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan evolved into rinnegan using dual Susanoo with a tri-seal involving the Susanoo and the user... that is badass... If it is a genjutsu it has more to it then just being a meteor. I am fairly certain even itachi could cast a genjutsu like that on everyone. Maybe a special type of genjutsu that does not require the targets eye contact in the same way as most other genjutsu from the uchiha. Perhaps this will be similar to the "Moon Eyes" plan genjutsu but on a much smaller scale. Or this genjutsu has some other special properties etc. I don't see the need for such a special formation of seals just to put a very large group into a genjutsu.
So summoning a meteor from some region or area in space. That would be very sick and badass and would open up even more possibilities. Only some other uchiha like Itachi or Tobi could counter this. Probably not even Itachi.
It's almost impossible to calculate a true power line in naruto. Everything is balanced in it's own way. Or unbalanced.
If I had to select who I currently think is the most powerful existing character in Naruto only going on what we have seen... Ingoring Madara because he was just shown.
I would say Itachi, He faught sasuke and did extreme damage basically wearing Sasuke down to nothing and then Itachi took out orochimaru in 1-2 hits depending on how you look at it. On top of that not only was Itachi not in his prime but he was also living with reduced vision and suffering from what I would call a critical illness. AND ON TOP OF THAT! Itachi was basically trying to loose but still wanting to put up a good fight. Sasuke was much weaker back then but he was still very strong.
Itachi had that one special sword that could basically one-shot anyone that I can think of if it hits... And it's also extremely strong on top of just being a one-hit kill... if that even makes sense. He cut off those giant snake heads so easily before sealing oro. Then he has the yeta mirror which is said to block any attack. However I suspect it won't block some of the highest end Rinnegan/Madara moves an perhaps other moves of the same level. Or it might be able to block just about everything but has some other form of weakness or limit. So I think Itachi at worst is just below Madaras level from what we have seen so far.
That aside let me break down this list the best way I can.
Sasuke > Oro > Old 3rd > Hashirama
Sasuke basically sucker punched oro when he was on his deathbed. Sasuke already mentioned that oro was already weak when he killed him but we as viewers could tell that. It was still a fairly impressive feat. And it's been more then a while since Sasuke has in my opinion surpassed oro true strength. So Sasuke > Oro... Kind of still stands but not so much as the time the fight if you could call it that happened. But if oro had planned or was ready to revive all theses fighters like Kabuto has during this war it would have crushed sasuke. lol
Oro better then the Old 3rd... Well... Sure... The only thing that makes comparing certain people difficult is that as certain shows go on power differences fluctuate. For example the revived 1st and 2nd Hokages fought strongly for the time that they were revived but even shortly into the Timeskip if you look back they were nothing compared to some other Ninja. And this can be explained with two reasons.
Reason#1 The revival technics used weakened them. Perhaps the more recent impure world resurrection is more effective. Well actually we know that it is more effective they told us this to help cover the very plot hole I am talking about. There is no way the 1st and or 2nd were as weak in life as they were during the oro+Old 3rd fight. So as the manga progressed it had to keep elevating and expanding the fights so sooner or later kishimoto found a new balance of how strong certain people should be. Even oro really increased in fighting power post time-gap. And no that was not because of the time-gap itself. It was just because of how the manga evolved. Things like a Time-gap or how jutsu worked and other means can cover up small plot holes like this. The 3rd had a more true reason for fighting so weak. I suspect if we could see him fight in his prime or even now in the manga it would be a different.
Reason#2.... Plot Hole..
After explaining that I still of course think that oro is greater then the old 3rd... Because both oro and the Old 3rd would be under the negatives of the writing. And oro did have a fairly easy time for what it was worth. And mainly because the term Old 3rd was used. I could not say for sure who would win if it was oro VS younger 3rd.
Old 3rd > Hashirama?!!! NO! JUST NO!
Umm... Sure.... I did not even read old 3rd I read 3rd in his prime and it still lost to Hashirama in my mind. Why??? Well there is something about Hashirama we don't know it. Is it unfair to use that in this calculation... YES! And no...
If it is Old 3rd VS Hashirama I can say almost for sure Hashirama wins. It is more of an argument or debate about the 3rd in his prime VS Hashirama. I still say Hashirama wins mainly because all we have to go by was his revived body VS old 3rd... And the way the revived body fought in my opinion would have lost to a great number of Ninja... Garra... Sasuke... Naruto... Pein... Actually the way Hashirama fought in the battle with oro Vs old 3rd would have lost to any decent ninja. So for sure the real Hashirama who had what I suspect was a super high level battle with Madara apparently killing madara who is exposed to be one of the most powerful uchiha. Ya.... something tells me there is a lot more to Hashirama just from what we have already seen of the revived Madara is scary... And Hashirama beat him? In my personal opinion Hashirama is up there at the top of the list of the most powerful Ninja. I would consider him at worst on par with Sasuke even that is saying a lot.
Are you on some sort of strong hallucinogent? The difference shown in pre and post skip battles is more one of scale than an actual exponential increase of power. Oro's fight against sandaime was one of the highest powered battles in the naruto verse; the anbu at the scene even commented on how the fight was on a completely different level and seeing how the world already knew a lot of insanely powerful guys up to that point, like all the resurrected kages, it's not like this was the first time ninja were exposed to high level battle.
Heck the previous great ninja war had raikage/bee and yondaime, amongst many, tearing up people.
The battles we are shown now is just a natural evolution of the show where everyone one that was weak as fuck got stronger.
Kakashi really hasn't gotten that much stronger and even so he's always been at kage level, same with gai and most of the other high level people.
Most of akatsuki was at that level as well, with the exception of pein and tobi, who are both special due to deus ex machina. Heck even Itachi who's fucking strong by himself, just happened to have 2 deus ex machina's in the form of that ultra sword and shield.
It's also been well established that it was sarutobi who was called the god amongst ninjas and the professor, not the 1st, 2nd, 4th or 5th.... you don't give titles like that out for no reason. Sandaime in his prime was evidently perhaps the strongest ninja the narutoverse has produced after the the sage of 6 paths. Also kabuto's edo tensei being more efficient doesn't mean oro's resurrected them weaker. Kabuto just has it applied on a massive scale and is able to improve the resurrection beyond what they were in their prime, effectively making them stronger than they ever were; oro's edo tensei didn't resurrect weaker versions.
Again, the strong ninja had a relatively minor power increase, while the weak punks got older and stronger. This effectively flipped the scale to all battles being high powered; this makes the oro/3rd battle seem less special.
I would also have to say that there is something to be said of having knowledge of techniques and being able to improve on them (both in the case of the 3rd and of Kabutoro). I think the fact that the 3rd had so much knowledge of techniques and and wisdom was very helpful. He may not have been the "god of shinobi" at the time he died, but he was still awfully strong and clever. Like GI Joe says, "knowing is half the battle", and you can be sure he knew a lot about the 1st and 2nd's techniques. Also, I would say that the 4th could still be the "most powerful shinboi" while the 3rd is known as "god of shinobi". There is a huge gap between 'god' and 'powerful'.
And as for the new Edo Tensei, we know Kabuto is all about the science of the ninja and improving on it. He has likely been working on refining the technique for its use and creating a superior version.
Thank you. You kind of just made my point. It's hard to explain what I mean and explain it properly. But yes characters in the manga said that the fight was one of the highest powered battles in the Naruto verse. But that was a character in the show at that time. From all the fights we have saw up until that point it was basically the most extreme. However even the common fights since then have been about as highend if not more so. Sakura and the older woman sorry I forget names... VS sasori was in my opinion a higher end battle. Garra VS deidara was fairly close... Both of those were only at the start of the manga after the timeskip. So as time went on the manga had to keep being interesting and before to much longer you can look back at how oro and the old 3rd fought and say you know what... I have seen chunins perform almost as good in combat. Many fights were like 2-5 times as epic and powered. The 1st and 2nd hokages were derp... they basically did nothing. A couple jutsu each with decent ti-jutsu combat.
Sure there are many characters who got a huge explained power boost during the timegap, those who got a less of a boost as well so for the most part it is understandable. But one thing to notice is that things like timegaps and so forth are used as a ploy to explain strength increases. Characters who are already in there 25+ years of age or even a lot older 2-3 years time should do almost nothing. However we see even oro do some insane things since then. Kakashi seemed to really buckle down and train during that time gap because while he was decent before the gap after he was simply amazing. Now he could fight Zabuza and Haku himself so easily. And most of theses increases are understandable but an other huge example and something EVERYONE needs to pay attention too if your reading this that really shows how fights come down to the fact that this is a manga that has to be read by viewers or a story in general is that many of the revived ninja in the recent war ark that is happening right now. 90% of the time if the revived person had an exclusive ark or extended combat moments back before they were killed the first time there fights now are quick and seem a lot less extreme. Like even though they should be as dangerous they are not. Or in the very least it is shown offscreen. But most of theses fights are still shown almost totally.
What am I getting to? Well take deidara for example... He got a huge fight more then one fight and lost so sasuke. But he got very little screen time and it was not the same since he was revived. And this is even a bad example because he actually got more then others did. A great majority of the people dropped like flys. Sure Itachi,Pain and some others who are still considered important to the plot had or will have more higher end battles. But since many of the revived ninja who were already featured before are kind of pointless there fights are not shown or more then likely they go out very quickly. Often losing there will to fight and turning to stone or fading away into dust Sasori is was of the best examples. And the reason is the writer is bored of them and it's already been shown and explained and there backstory and plot is done so it's just bothersome to the viewers and time consuming and boring for the writer to implement them as much. So the writer will find ways to write them off quicker perhaps even having some excuses but in reality they should have had more screen time and much more complicated battles. Sasori was a huge let down... But you know what! I was happy it was done the way it was done because I did not care. I want the manga to move forward more quickly. But a lot of things like timeskips, an the way jutsus work and other things while they might be cool and make sense a lot of any written material is done so on purpose to kind of move the story along and to prevent or cover up plot holes.
If the oro and old 3rd fight happened now for the first time it would be completely different. Because the understanding of what is an extremely high-end fight in naruto has changed over the years. A Manga takes years to write! The writer and viewers all go though a change and the story evolves. Pre-time gap kakashi probably could have beaten or done very well against the revived 1st and 2nd hokage judging from there performance during the oro/old 3rd fight.
Were the true strength of the 1st and or 2nd hokage even 1 on 1 could crush and murder the current post-time gap kakashi without to much trouble.
Last edited by viperwasp; Wed, 10-26-2011 at 06:51 PM.
You type way too much just to say you base what you think of oro/1st/2nd/3rd's power on that one fight. You need to relativise and just accept that in universe it was some of the most extreme shit anyone had seen. That the manga has 'evolved' to make everything "seem" more higher powered doesn't do away with 'canon'; sarutobi was and will always be an exceptionally powerful ninja regardless of how fights were portrayed.
Heck the zabuza example, try remembering it better, kakashi was completely fucking with zabuza the whole time. I think kakashi even bitchslapped zabuza twice when he finally decided to put an end to the fight:
4m19s
Zabuza and haku were NEVER a match for kakashi.
Anyway I'm pretty sure that if kishi decided to show some of 3rd's achievements in his prime now, it would completely eclipse anything we've seen from anyone aside from madara/tobi/pein.
Why am I even discussing this.
Damn, I remember when Chidori was one of the most badass techniques ever. Now, it doesn't even seem relevant.
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